did I miss the Savard-Carcillo biting thread?

[puckhead]

having had time to reflect, it turns out the biggest gut feel I have is that carcillo is a bitch for whining about it.

this is the guy who had no problem turning Gaborik into mush, and now he's been going after Savard... a guy who has spent the last two months in the dark with a concussion (that scrum wasn't the first time those two had come together).

Is biting a pussy thing to do? sure it is, but what else are you going to do (as a small, valuable player) against a gorilla like that - square up? makes no sense.

so..low marks to Savard for biting (I assume he did it, as he's done it before), but to me Carcillo comes off as worse for being a tattling little bitch about it.


/and I generally like carcillo's game

 

[pixburgher66]

the thing is, in scrums i'm sure this happens pretty often and we just don't hear about it. i mean, normally players don't even say 'he bit me'. the few occurances i've heard it said aloud were when it was caught on video or a penalty. so i guess carcillo didn't have to say it...but i wouldn't say it's whining.

 

[dash]

I don't know what's going on with Carcillo, first the brutal embellishment on a non high-stick, now this phantom biting. He's almost reaching the Steve Ott level on the dash hate scale...

 

[puckhead]

the thing is, in scrums i'm sure this happens pretty often and we just don't hear about it. i mean, normally players don't even say 'he bit me'. the few occurances i've heard it said aloud were when it was caught on video or a penalty. so i guess carcillo didn't have to say it...but i wouldn't say it's whining.

Every highlight package i have seen on it has shown more airtime of him showing his finger to the ref, to the linesman, to his teammates, than of the scrum itself.

just rubbed me the wrong way I guess.

 

[BostonAJ]

You catch Grapes' feeling on Carcillo tonight? Priceless.

 

[scottflyers88]

first of all i guess this makes letang a bitch for saying the same thing about hartnell. and i guess it does the same for asham for saying the same against cooke.

if some feux hawk loser bit my finger i would show the ref. and carcillo is far from a gorilla. yea he fougt gaborik and gaborik is bigger than he is and even started the fight. carcillo is 6 foot 0 and 205 pounds. pretty average size for a hockey player.

 

[puckhead]

first of all i guess this makes letang a bitch for saying the same thing about hartnell. and i guess it does the same for asham for saying the same against cooke.

if some feux hawk loser bit my finger i would show the ref. and carcillo is far from a gorilla. yea he fougt gaborik and gaborik is bigger than he is and even started the fight. carcillo is 6 foot 0 and 205 pounds. pretty average size for a hockey player.

yes, same for Letang.
yes, same for Asham
and, yes Carcillo is definitely a gorilla. I have liked his game since his rookie year, but he is a gorilla. for him, that's not an insult. I through Gretzky was a moron for trying to reign that in.

the issue is, carcillo makes his living as an enforcer. it is a bit hypcritical of his to go crying to the stripes for something a 5'10 player does to him in a scrum.

 

[scottflyers88]

carcillo is not an enforcer at all. he is an agitator. there is a difference. enforcers have no skill and just fight. agitators do what carcillo did to savard. tries to throw him off of his game. and carcillo actually has a lot of skill. and laviolette has had no problem helping out carcillo. carcillo has a bunch of penalty minutes this year and has probably drawn more than he has taken.

[YOUTUBE]wl-h_KNrJtw[/YOUTUBE]

never saw an enforcer do that.

 

[scottflyers88]

[YOUTUBE]WHUlFvAVD_U&NR=1[/YOUTUBE]

just saw this.

 

[puckhead]

sure he has skill.
Probert scored some beauties, Tiger Williams, Mayday, McCarty, etc have all had some beauties.
without even watching the clip, I see
187 games, 24 goals, 30 assists, 763 PIMs
that's an AVERAGE of over 4 PIMs per game

he's an enforcer.
good for him for having a bigger offensive role right now, but he's still an enforcer.

 

[scottflyers88]

here is his problem. when he entered the league he wanted to make a name for himself. well this is what he told bill clement anyway. he wanted to break the all time penalty record for a single season. so when he entered the league i would agree with you. since he has been on the flyers he has had ups and downs although since laviolette took over i have seen a big turnaround. laviolette put him on the richards line which was not producing at even strength and he added a great forecheck and great cycling skills which you need in laviolettes system. right now i think he is in a transitional phase. this year he has turned down fights and focused more on playing hockey. he stills gets in peoples faces although he just does it to get them to the penalty box. not just to fight them for fun. the problem is that the refs still see him as an enforcer and will send him to the box for any reason. hopefully he just does what he has continued to do this season. twice this year he has turned down a fight and has scored a goal on the same shift.

 

[pixburgher66]

i think there's just a difference in definition between the two of you.
how i see it:
agitator-someone who does the little things to get under a teams skin, but rarely fights. can have offensive skill, typically a grinder. sometimes put on the top lines to protect players by drawing the physicality.
enforcer-low minutes, almost a pure fighter, perennial fourth liner, occasionally sees time on PK, only on top lines to protect in late parts of the period when it gets chippy. typically has VERY little offensive flare. basically a boxer on skates.
maybe everyone has different ideas on what each of those are, but that's my take.

 

[scottflyers88]

i agree with you pittsburgher except some agitators do fight more than others. such as avery. i would rather not have carcillo fight though because he plays on the richards line and contributes a lot.

 

[puckhead]

here is his problem. when he entered the league he wanted to make a name for himself. well this is what he told bill clement anyway. he wanted to break the all time penalty record for a single season. so when he entered the league i would agree with you. since he has been on the flyers he has had ups and downs although since laviolette took over i have seen a big turnaround. laviolette put him on the richards line which was not producing at even strength and he added a great forecheck and great cycling skills which you need in laviolettes system. right now i think he is in a transitional phase. this year he has turned down fights and focused more on playing hockey. he stills gets in peoples faces although he just does it to get them to the penalty box. not just to fight them for fun. the problem is that the refs still see him as an enforcer and will send him to the box for any reason. hopefully he just does what he has continued to do this season. twice this year he has turned down a fight and has scored a goal on the same shift.

fair enough. I had seen him more in Phoenix than I get to now that he's in Philly.

my definition is rather simple: an agitator starts shit, and enforcer finishes it.