Defensive line units ranked by Fox Sports

[TrustMeIamRight]

And those three QB's played a combined TWO seasons this century in the B1G. That's kind of my point. The QB play, I wouldn't say has been bad because Troy Smith was really good, as was Russell in his rent a season, but no question the conference has lacked talent at that position this century.

As far as the NFL scouts evaluating the B1G QB's, I'd say they've been pretty spot on. In three years when Brady and Brees retire, the conference will only have Wilson who was a rent a player. Maybe Cousins will turn into something?

If u want to see the down fall of UM. All u have to do is look at the QB position.
The best QB UM had since Rich Rod took over transferred because of Richis Rod. Ryan Mallett.

Every "QB" since has been a disaster, though Denard Robinson was fun to watch run. Devin Gardner was the top rated dual threat QB -- he was a flop. Tate Forcier? Flop. 5* Shane Morris? Flop.

This is the one and only reason I was excited about the Harbaugh hiring because I knew he'd be able to bring in top QB's and also why I've tempered expectations until he has one of his own recruits under center.

 

[ericd7633]

I guess we'll agree to disagree. FWIW, that whole "outside of MSU and OSU, the B1G only put..." argument about the draft is absurd. Do the same thing with every other conference for the 4 main skill positions and tell me how that works out for you.

The draft reference was just a sidebar as to why I think the league is bad offensively. In 2015 the B1G had 2 top 25 offenses in terms of efficiency. 2014 was 3. 2013 was 3, 2012 was 3, 2011 was 3, 2010 was 4, 2009 was 2. Without doing any other research, I would venture a guess, that on average, that's the worst among P5 conferences.

 

[Codaxx]

You can use whatever you want. This was me trying to put this in the simplest context so you can understand. Fact is, at the end of the day, they held Baylor to well below their season average in points, yet it was simply Michigan State's defense getting shredded that we should only think of because of yards per play, which as I've demonstrated can very easily be manipulated.

That was you making up a pretty ridiculous scenario. You took out all the big plays from the offense. That offense ran another 69 plays, averaged a first down every 3 plays, but never scored again. that is just another scenario that is highly improbable. Its not as bad as saying 4 explosive plays in 24 plays is good defense, but its close.

 

[ericd7633]

If u want to see the down fall of UM. All u have to do is look at the QB position.
The best QB UM had since Rich Rod took over transferred because of Richis Rod. Ryan Mallett.

Every "QB" since has been a disaster, though Denard Robinson was fun to watch run. Devin Gardner was the top rated dual threat QB -- he was a flop. Tate Forcier? Flop. 5* Shane Morris? Flop.

This is the one and only reason I was excited about the Harbaugh hiring because I knew he'd be able to bring in top QB's and also why I've tempered expectations until he has one of his own recruits under center.

I'd agree, Michigan hasn't had a quality QB since Henne. Denard was a great athlete playing QB, but that wasn't really sustainable. My guess is that drought will be over with Harbaugh.

 

[Wamu]

Also still no first round QB's selected since Kerry Collins, I believe, which is startling.

While the lack of 1st rounders does look bad for the BigTen how about mentioning that if ya take a look @ all the starting QB's currently in the NFL the BigTen leads all in wins (6) & appearances (9).

SEC: 2 wins & 3 appearances
12 Pac: 1 win
Big 12: 0 & 0
ACC: 0 & 0

 

[Wamu]

If u want to see the down fall of UM. All u have to do is look at the QB position.
The best QB UM had since Rich Rod took over transferred because of Richis Rod. Ryan Mallett.

Every "QB" since has been a disaster, though Denard Robinson was fun to watch run. Devin Gardner was the top rated dual threat QB -- he was a flop. Tate Forcier? Flop. 5* Shane Morris? Flop.

This is the one and only reason I was excited about the Harbaugh hiring because I knew he'd be able to bring in top QB's and also why I've tempered expectations until he has one of his own recruits under center.

The real downfall of that program was RichRod & Hoke. Like I said before...they have never had a problem w/ getting damn good talent in ann arbor. Hell JH took Hoke's kids + a QB transfer & doubled the win total in 1 year. The 2 previous HC's were the problem & really nothing else.

 

[ericd7633]

While the lack of 1st rounders does look bad for the BigTen how about mentioning that if ya take a look @ all the starting QB's currently in the NFL the BigTen leads all in wins (6) & appearances (9).

SEC: 2 wins & 3 appearances
12 Pac: 1 win
Big 12: 0 & 0
ACC: 0 & 0

I'm assuming those are super bowl numbers? And I'm still failing to see how this helps the argument that the Big 10 has had bad QB play recently? Again Brees and Brady played 88% of their snaps in the 90's

 

[Across The Field]

The draft reference was just a sidebar as to why I think the league is bad offensively. In 2015 the B1G had 2 top 25 offenses in terms of efficiency. 2014 was 3. 2013 was 3, 2012 was 3, 2011 was 3, 2010 was 4, 2009 was 2. Without doing any other research, I would venture a guess, that on average, that's the worst among P5 conferences.

So you aren't going to run the same exercise for the other conferences. Pretty easy to see why you won't.

In 2015, the B1G had 4 top 25 offenses in terms of efficiency: OSU 5, michigan 11, MSU 21, Iowa 24.

Team Efficiencies - 2015 - ESPN

The SEC had 7
The ACC had 3
The Pac 12 had 5
The Big 12 had 3

But please, go on.

EDIT: That's overall efficiencies. However, to be fair, there are also 6 B1G teams in the top 33, so it's not like they're that far off. Also, when Arkansas is listed as the most efficient offense in the nation, I'm a bit skeptical of the value of this rating.

 

[ericd7633]

So you aren't going to run the same exercise for the other conferences. Pretty easy to see why you won't.

In 2015, the B1G had 4 top 25 offenses in terms of efficiency: OSU 5, michigan 11, MSU 21, Iowa 24.

Team Efficiencies - 2015 - ESPN

The SEC had 7
The ACC had 3
The Pac 12 had 5
The Big 12 had 3

But please, go on.

How about you know what you are referencing before we proceed, please. There's a difference between offensive efficiency and team efficiency.

As I said earlier, the B1G had TWO

Team Efficiencies - 2015 - ESPN

Michigan #20
Ohio State #24

 

[Wamu]

I'm assuming those are super bowl numbers? And I'm still failing to see how this helps the argument that the Big 10 has had bad QB play recently? Again Brees and Brady played 88% of their snaps in the 90's

Yep, they were SB #'s. I was never trying to defend the bad QB play in the conference. Just pointing out that if you look beyond the 1st round some BigTen QB's have had success. And I like how you tried to diminish Brady & Brees because of when they played in the BigTen. When they played in the conference shouldn't matter.

 

[Across The Field]

How about you know what you are referencing before we proceed, please. There's a difference between offensive efficiency and team efficiency.

As I said earlier, the B1G had TWO

Team Efficiencies - 2015 - ESPN

Michigan #20
Ohio State #24

And I added an edit. In re-working the "offensive efficiency", I noticed Arkansas is the most efficient offense in the nation, which deserves nothing less than extreme skepticism.

 

[ericd7633]

Yep, they were SB #'s. I was never trying to defend the bad QB play in the conference. Just pointing out that if you look beyond the 1st round some BigTen QB's have had success. And I like how you tried to diminish Brady & Brees because of when they played in the BigTen. When they played in the conference shouldn't matter.

I'm not diminishing them, they are amazing. But they played in the 90's, which is a pretty important note when discussing "recently".

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I'd agree, Michigan hasn't had a quality QB since Henne. Denard was a great athlete playing QB, but that wasn't really sustainable. My guess is that drought will be over with Harbaugh.

That has a lot to do with the drought in the B1G. UM pumped out QB'some until Carr left. Elvis Grbac, Todd Collins, Tom Brady, Drew Henson, John Navarre, Brian Grieve, Chad Henne.

Moving to the spread with Rich Rod madesign Ryan Mallett transfer and since it's been running QB's with big time flops added in.

The PSU debacle didn't help and with OSU, QB has never been their signature position, but NOONE can argue the talent they pump out everywhere else.

Once UM hopefully gets back and PSU does, I think u will see more QB's coming out.of the B1G, especially with MSU becoming as good as they have been.

 

[ericd7633]

And I added an edit. In re-working the "offensive efficiency", I noticed Arkansas is the most efficient offense in the nation, which deserves nothing less than extreme skepticism.

But you had no problem using it earlier when you thought it helped your argument. lol.

 

[Codaxx]

Yep, they were SB #'s. I was never trying to defend the bad QB play in the conference. Just pointing out that if you look beyond the 1st round some BigTen QB's have had success. And I like how you tried to diminish Brady & Brees because of when they played in the BigTen. When they played in the conference shouldn't matter.

It matters if the argument is the Big has had poor offense the last few years. Talking about QBs that played over a decade ago isn't really applicable.

 

[Codaxx]

That has a lot to do with the drought in the B1G. UM pumped out QB'some until Carr left. Elvis Grbac, Todd Collins, Tom Brady, Drew Henson, John Navarre, Brian Grieve, Chad Henne.

Moving to the spread with Rich Rod madesign Ryan Mallett transfer and since it's been running QB's with big time flops added in.

The PSU debacle didn't help and with OSU, QB has never been their signature position, but NOONE can argue the talent they pump out everywhere else.

Once UM hopefully gets back and PSU does, I think u will see more QB's coming out.of the B1G, especially with MSU becoming as good as they have been.

I am not sure the Spread is bad at developing kids. Very few college QBs go on to success. There have been fewer top QB recruits running spread. Guessing more of it has to do with shear numbers, than type of offense. That also discounts the fact that Brees came out of Tillers spread offense

 

[Wamu]

It matters if the argument is the Big has had poor offense the last few years. Talking about QBs that played over a decade ago isn't really applicable.

My original comment to eric was a reply to his comment about the BigTen not having a 1st round QB drafted since Kerry Collins in '95. I figured that since he mentioned '95 it was valid to mention what other conference QB's not drafted in the 1st round have done that are currently playing. It's all good though, because I certainly can't say that the conference has had any decent NFL qb's recently.

 

[Across The Field]

But you had no problem using it earlier when you thought it helped your argument. lol.

Oh I didn't think it helped any argument, I was pointing out that I thought you had miscounted. Honestly, your point would be better made to look at them my way. Any offensive stats that list Arkansas as the best in the nation don't help make anyone's argument look legit.

 

[ericd7633]

Oh I didn't think it helped any argument, I was pointing out that I thought you had miscounted. Honestly, your point would be better made to look at them my way. Any offensive stats that list Arkansas as the best in the nation don't help make anyone's argument look legit.

Arkansas was good on offense, don't know what to tell you. The only other offensive efficiency metric I found had them ranked 5th(2nd highest among P5 schools). That same metric also had just two big 10 teams in the top 25 in offensive efficiency.

 

[Across The Field]

I'm not diminishing them, they are amazing. But they played in the 90's, which is a pretty important note when discussing "recently".

So let's discuss "recently". In looking at QBR in the NFL last year, you have "recent" B1G QBs at #1 and #5, with old B1G QBs at #4 and #6.

Other than that, it's seriously a mixed bag. No other conference has put out any more "recent" stud QBs at a significantly higher rate.

There are Luck, Palmer and Rodgers from the Pac, but Rodgers and Palmer haven't been in college in over a decade.

The SEC has Cam, Matt Stafford, and Eli in the top 15, but Eli hasn't been in college in well over a decade.

The ACC has Tyrod Taylor and Phillip Rivers in the top 15, but again, Rivers hasn't been in college in well over a decade.

The Big 12, of course, has nobody because their QBs don't know how to play pro football.

That's it. So, what other conference is doing such a better job recently of churning out elite QB talent?