Defense?

[CreepCreep2014]

I said this a week ago to my buddy, and I will now say it...The S play is fucking terrible. The communication back there is fucking terrible. Ya want to know what changed??? Steve Belichick is now the S coach....yup. I said it!!!! Gillmore was the other change and he is complete and utter mess....Roberts can't play LB in the NFL, he just can't. The DL is getting pushed around. No clue why Guy, who was a run stuffer in Balt, is playing the edge and Wise is not on the field more. BB getting to fucking cute with these guys. Wise comes in, he gets some push.

It's pretty scary when Harmon after the game stated "we can't simplify it anymore, it's already been simplified."

 

[CreepCreep2014]

Gilmore/Rowe were struggling with the pass-off when receivers were in motion... not sure how much of it was Gilmore or Rowe.
Carolina was all over it (I suppose it's out there on film) and took full advantage. Looking back at a few plays, it looks like Carolina was trying to snap the ball right at the point where they were passing off responsibilities on the man in motion. If so, pretty effective gameplanning on Carolina's part.

Expect plenty of motion plays to Gilmore's side Thursday.

Numerous times I stated they are confused out load, and Car scored on those plays. I cannot remember a time, even when Edelman had to play CB, that a BB defense was so fucking confused.

 

[CreepCreep2014]

 

[BigKen]

MY OPINION>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Belichick totally fucked up after the Super Bowl win.

1. He should have grabbed Logan Ryan and offered him a 5 year $40M contract. He should have grabbed Malcolm Butler and offered him a 5 year $40M contract and guaranteed $25M to both. Stephon Gilmore must have been the weak link in the Buffalo secondary and that's why they didn't offer him 5 years $65M. This may be a contract that the Patriots will have to swallow hard and pay the preacher $6M of cap money for the next 4 years.

2. Curtis Rowe sucks. He hasn't made a decent tackle since the first game against KC. He can't defend a WR if he's not running in a straight line down the side line and he still doesn't know how to run and turn his head to find the ball.

3. Patrick Chung. His mobility is so limited that he can't run at full speed. Teams are picking him off like a sitting duck. He needs at least two weeks rest to get that knee and groin back to 75-85%.

4. Tom Brady. Brady has been good, no question. Problem is that he and Josh McDaniel have not made any effort to even partially replace Julian Edelman. They have not even tried to have someone take a shot at the quick underneath routes 3-5 yeard off the line of scrimmage. Even is that guy can't get those extra 3-4 yards they'll a guy who just might get a few first downs. Stop trying to go to Gronk underneath, he constantly double teamed short and gets whacked.

5. Bill Belichick. Can you explain WHY you had four linebackers suited up for the Panthers? Hightower is recovering from injury and isn't 100%. Elandon Roberts is a run stopper and as hard as he may try, is not a cover linebacker. He's also a bit brittle and has to come off the field at least once a game because he gets a boo-boo. Van Noy is not an edge rusher, he's the guy that should be covering the TE. Derrick Wise is the best edge rusher on the team. On 2nd and and 5,6,7,8,9,10 yards, he needs to be on the field and have no other responsibility other than to remove the opposing quarterback's head.

Nick Caserio need to go back to the 2016 college football tapes. Look for three things.
1. Offensive Tackles who played every down of every game for their school and didn't allow speed rushers to get around them.
2. Defense ends who played every passing down and at least got with 6 feet of the quarterback when they rushed.
3. Cornerbacks who had at least 1 defended pass during the entire 2016 season.

There have to be at least 300 of each of these guys who were not drafted who played division 1. There has to be at least 2000 who played Division II and NAIA who weren't considered to be looked at. My guess is that there are at least 20 of each of the 3 that I mentioned who would be All-Pro but will never even see a professional game live.

Start thinking outside of the 100 year old box.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Never thought I'd say this but I miss Logan Ryan.
Wow that's how bad we've sunk as a D.
Gilmore and Steve Bilicheck both need to be benched. But BB will never swallow his pride enough.

 

[YankeeRebel]

This is kind of funny to me. A lot of us were worried about the DEs going into the season they are the only part of the defense that has been decent. The LBs and average or below, the DT play in weak and the secondary is completely out of tune with one another no consistent play from this group and I thought this would be the strength of the D.

 

[CreepCreep2014]

Anyone notice that Flowers was on the field in the 4th at LB because they needed speed? Yup....

I am not worried about the offense, it will only get better. Shit, they are scoring 30pts a game for fucks sake. This defense is terrible and there is no fixing it. If they could maybe be just a little but better, we can hold teams to 27pts and not 30 or more..Wise needs to be on the field more and Guy needs to move back on the DL. Time to play man, and see what you have. Can't fuck up coverage's when you have to only worry about 1 guy, the one in front of you. Put Gilmore and MB 1on1 and see what happens.

 

[Shoeshine Boy]

A ticky tack hands to the face penalty late in the game would be a lot more tolerable if he hadn't already been called for the same damn thing earlier in the game...if you know the refs are calling it tight, don't put your damned hands near his face again ffs. And then double down afterward saying you'll keep doing it because, hey, the refs won't see it every time (wanna bet what they're gonna be watching your dumb ass for every down from now on, Steph?).

Communication issues in the secondary would be a lot more tolerable if there was a ton of turnover in the secondary. But everyone but Gilmore was here last year. So does that mean everyone forgot how to communicate with one another during the offseason, or is it that the one new guy is throwing everything else off?

I usually roundly boo the notion that one player is responsible for a loss, but Gilmore's performance yesterday is as close to being one player's fault as I would ever hope to come. $13MM a year for that? Yuck. RKK should demand he donate his game check to Puerto Rico or something. He sure as fuu-uck doesn't deserve it.

 

[cheerupcharlie]

We just have no one who we can rely on to make big plays for our defense. Hightower does. But he's constantly dinged up. The only legit playmakers we had we traded away in Collins and Jones. I know the reasons why both were traded. But when I see the Patriots paying Solder 11 million and Gilmore 13 million. The almost 6 million we have in cap space. We could have kept those 2. I'm no salary cap guru. And maybe I'm wrong? And I know it didn't hurt us last year. But man is it ever this year.

 

[BigKen]

The only legit playmakers we had we traded away in Collins and Jones.

We won the Super Bowl without them and don't need the locker room cancer.

Some simple questions to ask.......Would this defense be better with.....

Logan Ryan??
Jabaal Sheard??
Chris Long??
Happy Malcolm Butler??

Signing these guys wasn't even an after thought. Butler will walk next year and that leaves Gilmore as the stud CB. If he's still here. He got pulled Sunday and few noticed that Johnathan Jones came in for him. Rowe went to the sideline and Gilmore had to come back.

Here we are week four and we already know that BB will have to draft or sign FAs to improve:::::::

Left and Right offensive tackles
Left and Right Cornerbacks
Outside Linebackers

Can't count on Garcia, Cyrus Jones.

 

[cheerupcharlie]

I don’t think any of those 4 players make the defense much better. Ryan is solid/good. Not great. Sheard doesn’t offer anything that our current players can/ can’t do. Long is blah. And if making almost 4 million a year isn’t incentive enough for Butler to not pout and play his ass off, then he can go back to Popeyes Chicken and remember what minimum wage feels like again.

Not sure there is a way to fix this defense. I’m at a loss at how bad they are right now.

 

[ohiopatsfan]

This season has quickly gone from "Will they go undefeated?" to "Will they even make it to the playoffs?" The defense right now looks as bad as I have ever seen it. BB and MP say it is fixable. We'll see about that. Mike Lombardi says it will be a long term project to build the D back up to its former glory. We will see who's right.

 

[CreepCreep2014]

I honestly think this defense is a lot more talented than last yr's. They are certainly faster than Long/Sher last yr. Wise and Flowers are fine and create havoc when both on the field at the same time, thing is....they is not very often. BB system does not allow DE to do what most DE do in other defense's. Look at Jones in AZ now, he is allowed to get after the QB and not stay in his "gaps". No clue why Guy is on the edge so much, he was such a run stuffier in Balt he should be lining up next to Brown. Would love more Wise, Brown, Guy, Flowers out there. That is a lot more speed than Long, Branch, Brown, Sher....IMO. Marsh is also coming along nice too. He seems to have the speed to catch up coming around the edge.

LB are slow...nothing we can do about that. Harris cannot even get on the field and Flowers was at LB last week cause they needed speed. IDK...I thought HT, Harris, Van Noy were going to be a nice combo...When Roberts is on the field, teams are going to pass. Van Noy is becoming a very good LB. Maybe Shea Mc helps when he comes back.

Secondary is all fucked up. They are so confused at times!! Two things have changed: Gilmore and Steve B as the new S coach. Maybe he can't handle the job. Chung seems slow, a lot slower. If Gilmore can't "do your job" I can see how things are getting messed up. If DMC, Harmon, Butler are going one way and Gilmore says "fuck this" and goes the other way...then big plays are gonna happen. WR are so wide open it's scary.

IDK...I have a very hard time believing they are not a talented team.....so it has to be communication.

As for the offense, Solder sucks...nothing we can do. We are still scoring 30+ pts a game. Once Dorsett gets the system down and MM is back. I expect this offense to be even better.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

I honestly think this defense is a lot more talented than last yr's. They are certainly faster than Long/Sher last yr. Wise and Flowers are fine and create havoc when both on the field at the same time, thing is....they is not very often. BB system does not allow DE to do what most DE do in other defense's. Look at Jones in AZ now, he is allowed to get after the QB and not stay in his "gaps". No clue why Guy is on the edge so much, he was such a run stuffier in Balt he should be lining up next to Brown. Would love more Wise, Brown, Guy, Flowers out there. That is a lot more speed than Long, Branch, Brown, Sher....IMO. Marsh is also coming along nice too. He seems to have the speed to catch up coming around the edge.

LB are slow...nothing we can do about that. Harris cannot even get on the field and Flowers was at LB last week cause they needed speed. IDK...I thought HT, Harris, Van Noy were going to be a nice combo...When Roberts is on the field, teams are going to pass. Van Noy is becoming a very good LB. Maybe Shea Mc helps when he comes back.

Secondary is all fucked up. They are so confused at times!! Two things have changed: Gilmore and Steve B as the new S coach. Maybe he can't handle the job. Chung seems slow, a lot slower. If Gilmore can't "do your job" I can see how things are getting messed up. If DMC, Harmon, Butler are going one way and Gilmore says "fuck this" and goes the other way...then big plays are gonna happen. WR are so wide open it's scary.

IDK...I have a very hard time believing they are not a talented team.....so it has to be communication.

As for the offense, Solder sucks...nothing we can do. We are still scoring 30+ pts a game. Once Dorsett gets the system down and MM is back. I expect this offense to be even better.

Why can MM play T? lol

The O is fine. I do wish Dorsett gets more involved. Otherwise it may be between he and MM on who makes the 53?

I'm afraid TB may be dead before MM returns if Solder and company don't start protecting him a little better. Time for Dola and Dorsett to start picking up where JE11 left off IOT help protect TB.

 

[CreepCreep2014]

Why can MM play T? lol

The O is fine. I do wish Dorsett gets more involved. Otherwise it may be between he and MM on who makes the 53?

I'm afraid TB may be dead before MM returns if Solder and company don't start protecting him a little better. Time for Dola and Dorsett to start picking up where JE11 left off IOT help protect TB.

Seems like the short passes over the middle of the field is gone with JE11 done. Everything seems to be deep or outside. IDK...Solder is having a really bad year and keeps missing practice for non injury related stuff. I hope his family is OK.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Seems like the short passes over the middle of the field is gone with JE11 done. Everything seems to be deep or outside. IDK...Solder is having a really bad year and keeps missing practice for non injury related stuff. I hope his family is OK.

Those short passes could over the middle could certainly help with extending TB12s life.

Yeah sure hope something isn't going wrong with his son?

I think Solder will be fine. Just hope TB doesn't die first.

 

[Shoeshine Boy]

Two things have changed: Gilmore and Steve B as the new S coach. Maybe he can't handle the job.

One thing. Belichick the Younger was the safeties coach last year, too.

 

[cdumler7]

I honestly think this defense is a lot more talented than last yr's. They are certainly faster than Long/Sher last yr. Wise and Flowers are fine and create havoc when both on the field at the same time, thing is....they is not very often. BB system does not allow DE to do what most DE do in other defense's. Look at Jones in AZ now, he is allowed to get after the QB and not stay in his "gaps". No clue why Guy is on the edge so much, he was such a run stuffier in Balt he should be lining up next to Brown. Would love more Wise, Brown, Guy, Flowers out there. That is a lot more speed than Long, Branch, Brown, Sher....IMO. Marsh is also coming along nice too. He seems to have the speed to catch up coming around the edge.

LB are slow...nothing we can do about that. Harris cannot even get on the field and Flowers was at LB last week cause they needed speed. IDK...I thought HT, Harris, Van Noy were going to be a nice combo...When Roberts is on the field, teams are going to pass. Van Noy is becoming a very good LB. Maybe Shea Mc helps when he comes back.

Secondary is all fucked up. They are so confused at times!! Two things have changed: Gilmore and Steve B as the new S coach. Maybe he can't handle the job. Chung seems slow, a lot slower. If Gilmore can't "do your job" I can see how things are getting messed up. If DMC, Harmon, Butler are going one way and Gilmore says "fuck this" and goes the other way...then big plays are gonna happen. WR are so wide open it's scary.

IDK...I have a very hard time believing they are not a talented team.....so it has to be communication.

As for the offense, Solder sucks...nothing we can do. We are still scoring 30+ pts a game. Once Dorsett gets the system down and MM is back. I expect this offense to be even better.

I would say for your first part there the team has more athleticism rather than the word talent. Long/Sheard/Nincovich all brought veteran leadership and understanding of the game. Athleticism can only get you so far in this league. And while those guys didn't put up huge numbers they also fully understood the system and what was required of them. Because the struggles are not just in the secondary here and the pass game with missed assignments. Right now the Patriots are bottom-5 against the run as well. They are 31st in yards per rush giving up 5.1 yards an attempt and 26th in yards rushing allowed. So the front-7 cannot stop the run to help set up the secondary. Some of that is just guys not fully understanding what they are called upon on a given play then as you pointed out the athleticism in the LBing core is very much lacking. So open lanes with a lack of speed to make up for it with the LB's. I'm honestly not sure what can be done to fix these issues because communication is only part of the problem with this team.

 

[ohiopatsfan]

I don't know what can be done this year about the defense. As for someone to replace Edelman going over the middle, Riley McCarron, the so-called Wes Welker clone, is on the PS learning the system. Hopefully, he can fill in the Edelman role and also maybe be a decent punt returner.

 

[CreepCreep2014]

One thing. Belichick the Younger was the safeties coach last year, too.

Hmmm....I didn't think he was.....either way..