Daxton Hill Signed

[CrashDavisSports]

Hill is in the fold. Come on Bates. Bring that asking price down so we can have Bates and Hill roaming the backfield the next 5 years.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Hill is in the fold. Come on Bates. Bring that asking price down so we can have Bates and Hill roaming the backfield the next 5 years.

With the slotting system - signings are rarely newsworthy anymore.

As for Bates - I wouldn't expect to see him anytime soon.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

With the slotting system - signings are rarely newsworthy anymore.

As for Bates - I wouldn't expect to see him anytime soon.

WTH is wrong with you man? I just wanted to provide some wishful thinking for a bit, because we are better with Bates than without. Now, I can't even day dream about it for a little bit. You are a serious Debbie Downer.

 

[Cincyfan78]

WTH is wrong with you man? I just wanted to provide some wishful thinking for a bit, because we are better with Bates than without. Now, I can't even day dream about it for a little bit. You are a serious Debbie Downer.

Depends on how you look at it.

You could look at it as a best case scenario where Bates does miss most of the training/OTA's and such - because that means Dax is going to get all the snaps he can handle.

Then when Bates does return (and he will sign and play, because he's not going to risk sitting a year unpaid) they have Bates in the fold, and Dax got all the pre-season/summer reps to prepare him....

If Bates were here right now, Dax would be splitting a lot of reps....probably best that he's getting nearly all of them at this point...

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Depends on how you look at it.

You could look at it as a best case scenario where Bates does miss most of the training/OTA's and such - because that means Dax is going to get all the snaps he can handle.

Then when Bates does return (and he will sign and play, because he's not going to risk sitting a year unpaid) they have Bates in the fold, and Dax got all the pre-season/summer reps to prepare him....

If Bates were here right now, Dax would be splitting a lot of reps....probably best that he's getting nearly all of them at this point...

How long does Bates have to sign the tag before it is no longer available? All the way up to the beginning of the season?

 

[cincygrad]

How long does Bates have to sign the tag before it is no longer available? All the way up to the beginning of the season?

It doesn't go away unless the Bengals revoke it - At that point, he would become an unrestricted free agent. The only reason a team would rescind a tag is 1) if the player sexually assaulted 19 different massage therapists over the course of two years and they want the player off the team due to poor character.* or 2) the team wants to sign other players and can't carry the space that is needed if the player were to decide to sign the deal. I don't think either of those situations apply here.

*Unless the team is Cleveland and in that case they'll just cut the richest deal in the history of the NFL.

 

[Cincyfan78]

How long does Bates have to sign the tag before it is no longer available? All the way up to the beginning of the season?

I think they have until July 1st to work out a long-term deal.

After that, he can sign the franchise tag whenever.

My guess is - he'll sit out OTA's and camps - until probably the last few weeks of training camp so he can be ready for opening day. I mean, I guess he could decide to sit out longer - as he only has to be signed for X amount of games to accrue a season, but I'm not sure I see him going the Leveon Bell route - though stranger things have happened.

I love having Bates on the team, but I think he's being stubborn. I don't know for sure what the Bengals offer is/was - but from what i understand, he's looking to be Safety #1 - and frankly, he's just not safety #1. He's in that 3-5 range, IMO. I don't think that, if the Bengals offer, something between what the current #2 and #3 guys are getting, that it's unreasonable on their end - no organization can pay everyone what they *think* they're worth - business, unfortunately, comes first in these matters. It's even more pressing when you realize that you have quite a few contracts coming up and those are going to be even more expensive - and those likely aren't going to even pay those guys at the top (top 1-3 at their positions) of what others are getting....I mean, we are very close to WR2 making 22-25M.....Then think about Chase in a few years. And Burrow.

It's why landing a safety this year in the draft, and getting him acclimated was so pivotal. Bengals seemed to get really lucky and was able to hit on that early, and then double up at CB with the next pick. Very strong 1st and 2nd round, IMO...

 

[cincygrad]

I think they have until July 1st to work out a long-term deal.

After that, he can sign the franchise tag whenever.

My guess is - he'll sit out OTA's and camps - until probably the last few weeks of training camp so he can be ready for opening day. I mean, I guess he could decide to sit out longer - as he only has to be signed for X amount of games to accrue a season, but I'm not sure I see him going the Leveon Bell route - though stranger things have happened.

I love having Bates on the team, but I think he's being stubborn. I don't know for sure what the Bengals offer is/was - but from what i understand, he's looking to be Safety #1 - and frankly, he's just not safety #1. He's in that 3-5 range, IMO. I don't think that, if the Bengals offer, something between what the current #2 and #3 guys are getting, that it's unreasonable on their end - no organization can pay everyone what they *think* they're worth - business, unfortunately, comes first in these matters. It's even more pressing when you realize that you have quite a few contracts coming up and those are going to be even more expensive - and those likely aren't going to even pay those guys at the top (top 1-3 at their positions) of what others are getting....I mean, we are very close to WR2 making 22-25M.....Then think about Chase in a few years. And Burrow.

It's why landing a safety this year in the draft, and getting him acclimated was so pivotal. Bengals seemed to get really lucky and was able to hit on that early, and then double up at CB with the next pick. Very strong 1st and 2nd round, IMO...

I figure Bates wants at least the same deal that Budda Baker got in AZ. They have the same agent..... Bates has better career numbers. That deal was worth 59 million over 4 years. My guess is that the Bengals don't want to pay 15 million per year (I always assumed they are looking at 13).... And if they are open to 15 million per year, I don't think they're open to guaranteeing 31 million of it up-front. The deal would basically be guaranteed anyway as Bates would make 30 in his first two years, but the Bengals aren't putting money in escrow this year.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I figure Bates wants at least the same deal that Budda Baker got in AZ. They have the same agent..... Bates has better career numbers. That deal was worth 59 million over 4 years. My guess is that the Bengals don't want to pay 15 million per year (I always assumed they are looking at 13).... And if they are open to 15 million per year, I don't think they're open to guaranteeing 31 million of it up-front. The deal would basically be guaranteed anyway as Bates would make 30 in his first two years, but the Bengals aren't putting money in escrow this year.

Baker is actually 4th on the list...

• Seahawks safety Jamal Adams: $17.5 million.
• Vikings safety Harrison Smith: $16 million.
• Broncos safety Justin Simmons: $15.25 million.
• Cardinals safety Budda Baker: $14.75 million.
• Bears safety Eddie Jackson: $14.6 million.
• Titans safety Kevin Byard: $14.1 million.

I'm not sure I see the Bengals slotting him at 18M a year to be #1. I'm not sure I see them slotting him at 15.5 to get him to #3.

I'm not going to go down the line and compare them, but since you mentioned Baker - Bates is 1 year younger, and has more career INT's, but every other stat, on a per game basis, Baker is better at. It's marginal, but he's better. More tackles, more sacks, more forced fumbles....didn't see passes defensed, but I could see where Bates would be better there as well...but anyway - not sure I see the Bengals giving him 15 to slot him 4th, and I certainly don't think I see Bates wanting to take less.

I mean, I get it - if he signs for 17M now, and goes to #2, in a year from now 3 guys sign deals that go north of 18M and he's suddenly #5 - but that's just the way of the beast. Can't be #1 just because in a year, or two, from now you don't want to be #5 or #6. If you are going to pay a guy to stay at the top of the list for a few years, it's because he's going to produce at that #1 type level. Bates have been very good....He's not been #1 good.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I think Bates is looking to reset the Safety market like Davonte Adams did for WR's. He is the player union rep for the Bengals and I think he is all in on the union and trying to boost those rates into a new stratosphere (I hope I am wrong). I think the two parties were just a little bit different and then the market exploded with deals and his agent goes, "we now have to up the asking price because the second you sign this, others are going to come in right behind you and start surpassing you by millions and you will by the end of your contract fall out of the top 10 paid safeties".

Personally, that is what I think happened. And the Bengals are not even willing to budge on their initial offer but rather pay less for a franchise tag. Because I now hear the two parties are really far apart according to James Rapien. I know James is not an insider, but rather just a reporter for SI on the Bengals, but he seems to have some pretty good insight into things. So while all that is totally unverified, I assume he is close in his reports.

I think he is probably looking for $20 million a year with 70% of it guaranteed (with new league money). That is my guess.

 

[cincygrad]

I think Bates is looking to reset the Safety market like Davonte Adams did for WR's. He is the player union rep for the Bengals and I think he is all in on the union and trying to boost those rates into a new stratosphere (I hope I am wrong). I think the two parties were just a little bit different and then the market exploded with deals and his agent goes, "we now have to up the asking price because the second you sign this, others are going to come in right behind you and start surpassing you by millions and you will by the end of your contract fall out of the top 10 paid safeties".

Personally, that is what I think happened. And the Bengals are not even willing to budge on their initial offer but rather pay less for a franchise tag. Because I now hear the two parties are really far apart according to James Rapien. I know James is not an insider, but rather just a reporter for SI on the Bengals, but he seems to have some pretty good insight into things. So while all that is totally unverified, I assume he is close in his reports.

I think he is probably looking for $20 million a year with 70% of it guaranteed (with new league money). That is my guess.

I remember someone in Bates' party mentioning that the "old" price isn't the current price.... I took that as that the Bengals were willing to budge closer to what Bates wanted last August, but his representation no longer found that number acceptable. Which is fair, because technically, last August, Bates still had one year left on his deal.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I remember someone in Bates' party mentioning that the "old" price isn't the current price.... I took that as that the Bengals were willing to budge closer to what Bates wanted last August, but his representation no longer found that number acceptable. Which is fair, because technically, last August, Bates still had one year left on his deal.

Jaire Alexander's new contract certainly didn't help the Bates situation any.