David Price to the Tigers!

[TrustMeIamRight]

Tigers fans you can't be so narrow MINDED to think that every team is just trying to make moves to beat you. The A's could have made the moves to be better than SF and LAD pitching.

It has nothing to do with what every team is doing. I just said Oakland. The past two years, they were one of the best teams in baseball. The past two years, they were bounced from the playoffs by Detroit, as the Tigers starting pitching carried them.

I'm not saying it was 100% because of Detroit, as anything can happen, and we don't know if these teams will even face each other. To say it wasn't made with the Tigers in mind, is as you say, narrow minded.

It is no different than when the Detroit Pistons couldn't get past the Boston Celtics losing a couple years in a row to them in the Eastern Conference final. Each year they made moves to try and improve the team, with the end goal to try and beat Boston. Let's hope this doesn't have the same ending, as the Pistons were finally able to beat Boston in the playoffs.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Also -- just to add to the previous post. Detroit's deadline trade adding David Price, IMO, had a lot to do with Oakland's moves. If Oakland doesn't add all the starting pitchers they did -- I don't see Detroit going out to get Price. So it goes both ways.

 

[jdwills126]

Also -- just to add to the previous post. Detroit's deadline trade adding David Price, IMO, had a lot to do with Oakland's moves. If Oakland doesn't add all the starting pitchers they did -- I don't see Detroit going out to get Price. So it goes both ways.

I think adding Price had more to do with losing Max next season. The Tigers could have been fine with overpaying for Andrew Miller but with Max' s uncertain tenure with Detroit if he leaves now a rotation of Sanchez, Verlander, Porcello, Price, and Ray still looks pretty strong.

I think the Tigers really wanted a left handed reliever to better matchup with Oakland but it didn't work. Detroit definitely needed to match what Oakland did. They are the AL favorites for a reason but getting past Detroit is a mental thing for the A's like the Bulls getting past the Pistons.

The waiver trade period will be interesting as I see Detroit making a couple of moves yet.

 

[SoPortland]

You obviously must -- Oakland has made the playoffs the last two years and in the last two years, they lost to the Detroit Tigers and they lost because of Detroit's starting pitching.

I'm well aware of their history. There's more to their history than the past two seasons. Beane has been a GM of the A's for quite some time now.

 

[StanMarsh51]

You obviously must -- Oakland has made the playoffs the last two years and in the last two years, they lost to the Detroit Tigers and they lost because of Detroit's starting pitching.

It isn't like it is a big secret on why they added starting pitching. IF they end up facing the team who has sent them home to past 3 times they've made the playoffs -- they want to have the arms to match Detroit's starting pitching.

The other reason why they added a couple bigger arms is -- Beane, himself, admitted that his 'moneyball' approach works well in the regular, but it has a tough time in the playoffs when they face top pitching staffs. So they went out and got a couple of their own top end starting pitchers.

Then again, they had top end starters when they had Hudson/Mulder/Zito in their primes, and we know where that got them....so it's really a crapshoot in the playoffs, considering that are plenty of teams with top heavy rotations that ended up empty handed.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I'm well aware of their history. There's more to their history than the past two seasons. Beane has been a GM of the A's for quite some time now.

Why would it matter what Oakland did 10+ years ago? 10+ years ago -- the Tigers were setting records for the most losses in a season.

To even try to assume Oakland didn't make the deals for starting pitching with the playoffs and Detroit in mind is being short sighted. Detroit is the team who has sent you home the past two years, because of their starting pitching.

They even posted a text message sent by Dombrowski to Billy Beane after Detroit acquired David Price in the Detroit News here. After completing the trade to acquire Price -- Dombrowski sent Beane a text saying "You have one minute to make a deal for Chris Sale".

That is why I have said, I believe without question, Price was acquired because of the Jon Lester trade. I don't think Scherzer has anything to do with the trade. Price is only on the Tigers for next season, so unless they believe he will sign a contract in the same ballpark that Scherzer turned down -- it was made with the playoffs in 2014 in mind and specifically a series against Oakland.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Then again, they had top end starters when they had Hudson/Mulder/Zito in their primes, and we know where that got them....so it's really a crapshoot in the playoffs, considering that are plenty of teams with top heavy rotations that ended up empty handed.

I agree -- it is a crap shoot to an extent. Having a stacked rotation though is one way to give you a tremendous advantage though.

Also -- I was just repeating what Billy Beane stated.

 

[da55bums]

Oakland had the best pitching in baseball the last two years, their hitting was horrible. Its not tough for a good to great rotation to have shut down Oaklands offense. Hell take away the 3 starts Verlander had against Oakland the last two years and his post season numbers go back to be horrible. They definately were not the best team in baseball and by far the worst offense going into last 2 postseasons.

I do think Detroit got Price to counter Oakland more than for Max, but Oakland got Lester, Jeff S to win the WS, they already had the better pitching staff before the deals, they improved their offense this year to deal with Detroit. The A's want to win it all and could definately have been thinking pretty heavily about LAD in a WS match up with Kershaw/Grienke, Detroit wants to beat Oakland. Strange that even the fans mindset is trade to "beat Oakland" not "win a WS"

Oaklands deals just got DD off his ass after Oakland showed him how to go for a Ring. it might have lit a fire under him finally, and actually great for Tigers fans, getting Price and at least trying to improve the bullpen after turning a blind eye for it for so long..When he gets rid of Coke, then you will know DD wants to win a ring.

Beane is a step ahead of DD and definately has more drive to win a WS, he knows you don't get many shots, something DD could have done since he had his core in 2006. For some reason DD just improves a little here and a little there, never addressing all the weak spots.

 

[navamind]

Oakland had the best pitching in baseball the last two years, their hitting was horrible. Its not tough for a good to great rotation to have shut down Oaklands offense. Hell take away the 3 starts Verlander had against Oakland the last two years and his post season numbers go back to be horrible. They definately were not the best team in baseball and by far the worst offense going into last 2 postseasons.

I do think Detroit got Price to counter Oakland more than for Max, but Oakland got Lester, Jeff S to win the WS, they already had the better pitching staff before the deals, they improved their offense this year to deal with Detroit. The A's want to win it all and could definately have been thinking pretty heavily about LAD in a WS match up with Kershaw/Grienke, Detroit wants to beat Oakland. Strange that even the fans mindset is trade to "beat Oakland" not "win a WS"

Oaklands deals just got DD off his ass after Oakland showed him how to go for a Ring. it might have lit a fire under him finally, and actually great for Tigers fans, getting Price and at least trying to improve the bullpen after turning a blind eye for it for so long..When he gets rid of Coke, then you will know DD wants to win a ring.

Beane is a step ahead of DD and definately has more drive to win a WS, he knows you don't get many shots, something DD could have done since he had his core in 2006. For some reason DD just improves a little here and a little there, never addressing all the weak spots.

Lol, please stop saying this. 3rd in AL in runs scored in 2013 is considered "horrible"? They were 8th in 2012, but their lineup went through a lot of changes over the course of the season. They were horrible the first two months of 2012, but they were averaging almost 5 runs per game over the last four months.

 

[da55bums]

team batting average for the season .230 and .250...

I don't even know if a team has made the post season before with a .230 team batting average, probably been a few .250s

your saying 8th in just the AL out of 15 teams. I would have to look up to see if I have ever seen a worse batting team in either league in my lifetime. That lineup I watched was horrible to even look at.

And 1 of the 2 years, I remember a game and not seeing 1 player in the lineup over .250 for 1 of the games.

I wanted Oakland to win but thought no chance against Detroits pitching with this lineup.

 

[navamind]

team batting average for the season .230 and .250...

I don't even know if a team has made the post season before with a .230 team batting average, probably been a few .250s

your saying 8th in just the AL out of 15 teams. I would have to look up to see if I have ever seen a worse batting team in either league in my lifetime. That lineup I watched was horrible to even look at.

And 1 of the 2 years, I remember a game and not seeing 1 player in the lineup over .250 for 1 of the games.

I wanted Oakland to win but thought no chance against Detroits pitching with this lineup.

but their lineup went through a lot of changes over the course of the season. They were horrible the first two months of 2012, but they were averaging almost 5 runs per game over the last four months.

Here are the A's stats by month in 2012:
March/April: .209/.280/.330, 72 OPS+, 73 runs in 24 games
May: .210/.295/.334, 74 OPS+, 91 runs in 27 games
June: .250/.327/.425, 106 OPS+, 133 runs in 28 games
July: .249/.312/.437, 104 OPS+, 117 runs in 24 games
August: .258/.322/.454, 146 runs in 28 games
September/October: .245/.319/.427, 153 runs in 31 games

The A's were historically bad the first two months and had one of the best lineups in baseball over the last 4 months. They started hitting in June of 2012 and since then, the A's have the best W-L% in all of baseball. Coincidence? They got Coco Crisp back in June and he hit pretty well down the stretch, Josh Donaldson played well after getting recalled from AAA and has since been one of the best players in baseball, and Brandon Moss has broken out as one of the top power hitters in all of baseball.

And who cares about batting average? Seriously? The Royals were 2nd in the AL in BA in 2010, batting .274. They finished 10th in runs scored. Why, you might be wondering? Because they didn't get on base very much (only 8th in OBP) and they didn't have much power (12th in HR, 9th in SLG%). An empty batting average isn't going to help you score too many runs. That's why OBP and SLG% are far more important stats than BA.


The A's were 9th in BA in 2013, but they were 5th in OBP, 4th in SLG% and 3rd in runs scored. The A's are 10th in BA this year, but 4th in OBP, 7th in SLG%, 4th in HR and 1st in runs scored.

 

[da55bums]

so basically your saying they were like the St Louis team that won the WS and got everyone back before the post season.

Still batting average matters, unless the plan is to walk around the bases, someone has to get some hits.

again though, .230 might be the lowest team batting average in the playoffs in my life. Against great starting pitching in the post season, the "walk" factors or OPS goes down...thus the reason Oakland got dominated.

Its easier to get walks against guys like Bruce Chen and Joe Saunders and boost your OPS.

 

[SoPortland]

Don't look now but the Royals are only 2.5 back.

LOLTigers

 

[navamind]

so basically your saying they were like the St Louis team that won the WS and got everyone back before the post season.

Still batting average matters, unless the plan is to walk around the bases, someone has to get some hits.

again though, .230 might be the lowest team batting average in the playoffs in my life. Against great starting pitching in the post season, the "walk" factors or OPS goes down...thus the reason Oakland got dominated.

Its easier to get walks against guys like Bruce Chen and Joe Saunders and boost your OPS.

BA matters, but it's only a part of OBP and SLG%. The problem with BA is it doesn't include HBPs or walks and BA counts a single, double, triple and HR equally. OBP has more of a correlation with runs scored than BA does as well.

 

[da55bums]

BA matters, but it's only a part of OBP and SLG%. The problem with BA is it doesn't include HBPs or walks and BA counts a single, double, triple and HR equally. OBP has more of a correlation with runs scored than BA does as well.

I agree OBP and SLG are more defined stats but also the Starting pitching in the post season doesn't walk or HBP as much as the regular season pitchers, they are generally better pitchers since only top 3 going. That OBP and SLG did not fair as well as during the regular season for Oakland. The needed to hit the ball and they couldn't.