Dana Holgorsen gambles on himself

[Slaton10]

Luck didn't hire Huggins, Hammonds or Brown either, so what's your point????? The current athletic success was founded by Pastilong hiring Fraud, Huggins, Hammonds and Brown.

Point is Ollie upgraded all of those teams venues it was HIS vision to make Wv a "First in Class" Athletics program...as far as I've seen from Shane O Mac we are headed back to the days of FAST EDDIE P!!

BTW athletic success?...does Jonathon Hargett ring a bell...Gale " I left in shame" Catlett...to Dan Dakich......almost got Ol Fast Eddie P fired!!!

Do we really need to talk about the not so happy marriage with Rich?

To Racist allegations made by our very own Pat White!?!?

 

[Slaton10]

I was expecting a reply form you on this one.

Does this mean you have to give Pastilong credit for these great teams and coaches? I never stated Lyons hired any of the coaches. You can't deny that the sports programs flourished while Lyons has been here.

I give Pastilong credit for getting Huggins and Rich to campus...they were his hires...I give him credit for finding Nikki and giving her a chance to build the program

I think its too early to say the programs are flourshing under Shane O'Mac..they were all set up to succeed before he hit campus...let's see what happens in a few years to size up his influence

 

[Slaton10]

I don't get where he hurt 3 recruiting classes?

One year ago, we were 5th in the B12, Holgs had not sniffed success in the league. He was 0-4 against ranked teams with most losses blowouts, losses to ISU and Kansas the year before. Football attendance declining, fan base support of coach not very high...what is an AD to do:

Option #1 fire the guy. -really bad year to get a coach as many programs switching and difficult to recruit a hot coach.

Option #2 Extend the coach who based on past history will likely not be unless the team really improves. and stick yourself to a big buyout clause if it does not work.

Option #3 give the coach one more chance, hope he does better. You may lose some recruits in the process and if he succeeds, you may lose him or have to pay much more to keep him. (which would most likely be less of a cost overall compared to paying a renegotiated buyout. In case he fails, extend his best assistant to insure some continuity in the program if you change the HC.

Now what would Luck (man love of half this board) have done? My guess is to fire the coach who has not lived up to expectations. I think that Pastilong would have given the extension. Shane took the gamble and Holgs came through by winning 10 games.

My be easy to say we should have extended him given his success this year, but if you look at the facts as they stood one year ago, it was surely not a no brainer. The only real failure that could happen is if we lost Holgs to Oregon or some other school. That did not happen.

 

[WVUDAD]

Rifle team were champions before Pastilong was AD. The first NCAA sponsored Rifle Championship was held in 1980. Prior to this, the NRA sponsored it. WVUs first NCAA Championship was in 1983, 2 years before Eddie P came aboard. He probably hired Marsha Beasley in '89. She won 8 NCAA Team Championships during her tenure. For some reason, Eddie P. Cut the program in 2004 and brought it back the next year. I guess he didn't like the success the Rifle Team was having. Who the hell knows. She retired in 2006 and Hammond, who was a volunteer assistant, was hired.

WTF????? the hatred of Pastilong is so ingrained in the Luck lovers. I do not get the point of this post at all... WVU's greatest football success in our history came on Pastilong's watch, hell our best overall athletic success was on his watch. Pastilong cut rifle due to our wonderful federal govt and title 9......WVU Cuts: 'We feel lost'

 

[Slaton10]

I am not sure about the dwindling attendance numbers...been pretty rock solid thru Holgy's rain...55,000+

Saying he did not sniff success in the league...you can measure it different ways I guess...going in his first year to Austin and winning...is a pretty big deal...and I guess I am not sure what the expectation should have been...BBW has covered this pretty thoroughly about the depth of the team back in the day...not sure if you remember Holgy taking snaps in practice due to no depth at QB when he came in..

I know we all would like to think it..but top level kids are not breaking down the doors to come Wv like an Alabama.. the Program will never be in the top tier of College football...never has...never will... It's a Clemson or Texas A&M at best and I am being kind, they both have better recruiting pipelines..

So I think you have to have more patience with a Coach who you know has the skills to get you to a highly competitive level year in and year out...and I think Dana has always shown that..

I think the way that Ollie brought him in and Dana going thru what he did...Ollie would have extended him...IMHO Ollie has forgotten more football than Eddie P or Shane O'Mac know about football put together!..he knows what a coach looks like...tis why he hired him in the first place

 

[WVUDAD]

Point is Ollie upgraded all of those teams venues it was HIS vision to make Wv a "First in Class" Athletics program...as far as I've seen from Shane O Mac we are headed back to the days of FAST EDDIE P!!

BTW athletic success?...does Jonathon Hargett ring a bell...Gale " I left in shame" Catlett...to Dan Dakich......almost got Ol Fast Eddie P fired!!!

Do we really need to talk about the not so happy marriage with Rich?

To Racist allegations made by our very own Pat White!?!?

unreal.....just unreal, the blinders when it comes to Luck and the abject hatred of ANYONE else is amazing. You want to talk about Fraud, try looking into the matter, Garrison was the issue with WVU's relationship with Fraud, making promises that were against NCAA rules, Pastilong was man enough to tell Fraud he couldn't have things that broke rules, things that got other coaches and programs in trouble......Catlett?????, reaching now in desperation I guess, Catlett was untouchable at the time, Dakich was a hot commodity at the time, then saw what a mess Catlett left, BUT, you conveniently left out what came next.............and you really want to talk about Pat White saying that an asst coach said he wasn't going to get the HC gig because he pointed to his skin...weak.
Lyons did what ANY administrator with a brain would do,

 

[WVUDAD]

Gibson Receives New Contract - WVU Athletics

 

[GoldRusher]

Gibson Receives New Contract - WVU Athletics

Gibby is known as a good recruiter, gotta believe this will do nothing but help on that front. I still hate the 3-3-5 and hope Gibby changes to something else but if that's what Dana and Gibby are comfy with then great, let's get them recruits in here by showing them that Gibby will be here awhile too! Good move by the AD.

 

[mad2mc]

I'll give him a participation award for not screwing up the direction set in place by Luck. Other than your perceptions of what happened with Dana's contract situation, what has Lyons done wrong?

Not sure where you think it's my perception when it is documented in this article that if Dana would have signed No Balls contract that he would forfeit his $2.9 million contract for 2017. So why sign it if it is guaranteed money should you get canned after 2016.

1. No Balls came in here and made assistant coaches sign a year to year contract and said that it was the way everybody else did it. Lyin' Lyons. Result: Lost some coaches and I'm sure others were wondering where they stood after this season.
2. If Dana was not going to be your man, then ask the Booster to assist with an immediate buyout. According to several people on this board, there were more than enough people that would have sent money in to a Go Fund Me account. Hell, I bet Poppy would have let some moths out of his wallet and Rusher would have contributed.
3. He went on with Hoppy and said that Dana didn't want to sign. Why air that out through the media? What he said was true, but to me, he wanted to pin this all on Dana. He didn't talk about what was offered, which is the right thing to do, but who would walk away from $2.9?
4. What did this do for the program? I let you decide what you think it means. We will see over the next couple years.
5. How much were they apart? What I read was only $600k. If Dana was going to go, why not ride him out until 2017 and then boot him? My perception on this one is obviously No Balls did not have a successor that he was confident in getting to come to the Mecca of college football coaching. He had a guy who already set roots in the area and wanted to the challenges that coaching in the State provides. Instead he, refer to #3, and runs his mouth, runs off coaches and potential recruits. As already mentioned, it's hard enough to get kids to come to WVU, now you have your AD adding to the mix.

So if those want to say what did he do, it was what he failed to do in handling his coaching negotiation. Yea, he really got a hometown discount by saving all that money at the expense of success of the future for the program. He should have got rid of Dana at the get go or start negotiating at a time that didn't make it look like you fool should the Dana did not have the success he had this season. Dana could have caught a case of the ass and left after this season, if he really wanted to. Then I guess we would have to see what No Balls could really do.

 

[mad2mc]

WTF????? the hatred of Pastilong is so ingrained in the Luck lovers. I do not get the point of this post at all... WVU's greatest football success in our history came on Pastilong's watch, hell our best overall athletic success was on his watch. Pastilong cut rifle due to our wonderful federal govt and title 9......WVU Cuts: 'We feel lost'

This was not based off of hatred for Eddie P, it was based off of your comments. I was curious when the Rifle team won their championships, before or during Eddie Ps reign? Gave you some extra nuggets during that time period and even gave Eddie P credit for hiring Marsha Bradley and provided kudos for her accomplishments.

Stop taking every response to your posts as a shot at you and read it for what it's worth. Maybe you can follow along and understand the post. One thing. Title IX was started in 1972. Did this mean that Eddie P did not plan for the what this was going to do to the college sports landscape where he all of sudden have to cut programs overnight in 1985?

 

[mad2mc]

Gibby is known as a good recruiter, gotta believe this will do nothing but help on that front. I still hate the 3-3-5 and hope Gibby changes to something else but if that's what Dana and Gibby are comfy with then great, let's get them recruits in here by showing them that Gibby will be here awhile too! Good move by the AD.

Hate to see him be stupid twice.

 

[Mike]

“Dana and I have worked closely together on Tony’s new contract,” Director of Athletics Shane Lyons said. “It was important for us to secure Tony as our defensive coordinator for next year and beyond. Our football program has great momentum going, and we look forward to it continuing in the years to come.”

 

[mad2mc]

“Dana and I have worked closely together on Tony’s new contract,” Director of Athletics Shane Lyons said. “It was important for us to secure Tony as our defensive coordinator for next year and beyond. Our football program has great momentum going, and we look forward to it continuing in the years to come.”

I saw that also. I guess the 1-yr contracts for coaches are no longer vogue. Good Ol' No Balls came in and saved all that money and turned the program around. Right Rusher?

 

[bbwvfan]

I don't get where he hurt 3 recruiting classes?

One year ago, we were 5th in the B12, Holgs had not sniffed success in the league. He was 0-4 against ranked teams with most losses blowouts, losses to ISU and Kansas the year before. Football attendance declining, fan base support of coach not very high...what is an AD to do:

Option #1 fire the guy. -really bad year to get a coach as many programs switching and difficult to recruit a hot coach.

Option #2 Extend the coach who based on past history will likely not be unless the team really improves. and stick yourself to a big buyout clause if it does not work.

Option #3 give the coach one more chance, hope he does better. You may lose some recruits in the process and if he succeeds, you may lose him or have to pay much more to keep him. (which would most likely be less of a cost overall compared to paying a renegotiated buyout. In case he fails, extend his best assistant to insure some continuity in the program if you change the HC.

Now what would Luck (man love of half this board) have done? My guess is to fire the coach who has not lived up to expectations. I think that Pastilong would have given the extension. Shane took the gamble and Holgs came through by winning 10 games.

My be easy to say we should have extended him given his success this year, but if you look at the facts as they stood one year ago, it was surely not a no brainer. The only real failure that could happen is if we lost Holgs to Oregon or some other school. That did not happen.

The 2016 recruiting class got off to a strong start, then one decommit after another... after another... occurred during the season when Shane failed to declare support for his head coach. You know... like the PSU AD did this fall? You know... the PSU team that lost two out of its first 4 games... one in embarrassing fashion to UofM? If not for Kyzir White and the Ferns kid committing late, last year's class would have ended up one of the worst of Dana's tenure.

This year's class has been compromised. Dana mentioned it in the article posted. We have but 13 high school seniors in the class. Enough said...

Next year's class will be hard to judge. As you know, coaches start recruiting kids when they're in the 9th/10th grade at times... and heavily recruit them as juniors in high school. These early relationships... and occasional offers... have been impacted negatively to date. Our staff has had to work extra hard to ward off the negative tactics of our recruiting rivals to earn the recruit's trust.

That is three classes. Last year's... this year's... and next year's...

 

[GoldRusher]

I saw that also. I guess the 1-yr contracts for coaches are no longer vogue. Good Ol' No Balls came in and saved all that money and turned the program around. Right Rusher?

Well, the estimated cost of firing Dana and hiring new staff at the end of 2015 was about 15mm, Gibson was mentioned as a favorite (Lyons choice) to replace Dana should a move be made this year.This makes Gibson the HCIW should this '16 season prove to be a fluke. Lyons has a pro WVU contract to work with now if he wants/needs to make a move in a few years as far as the buyout (he didn't have that with Lucks terrible extension that handcuffed WVU) Now, he can potentially make a move, still have some stability, and save his employer a TON of money. But... No, he is terrible

 

[GoldRusher]

The 2016 recruiting class got off to a strong start, then one decommit after another... after another... occurred during the season when Shane failed to declare support for his head coach. You know... like the PSU AD did this fall? You know... the PSU team that lost two out of its first 4 games... one in embarrassing fashion to UofM? If not for Kyzir White and the Ferns kid committing late, last year's class would have ended up one of the worst of Dana's tenure.

This year's class has been compromised. Dana mentioned it in the article posted. We have but 13 high school seniors in the class. Enough said...

Next year's class will be hard to judge. As you know, coaches start recruiting kids when they're in the 9th/10th grade at times... and heavily recruit them as juniors in high school. These early relationships... and occasional offers... have been impacted negatively to date. Our staff has had to work extra hard to ward off the negative tactics of our recruiting rivals to earn the recruit's trust.

That is three classes. Last year's... this year's... and next year's...

So, where was the big boost in recruiting when Luck signed Dana to about as iron clad long term contract on Dana's end that he could have after the 2011 season? It should have boomed with your reasoning..

What killed any recruiting momentum in the '16/'17 class is the 2012/2013 season where Dana and co. folded halfway through '12 then lost to teams like KU and Iowa State in his 3rd year as a HC in'13. Yea it wasn't all his fault because of the depth chart issues but recruits didn't know or care about that, they saw a downward trend going on at a place where its hard to sell to begin with. Dana took over the program in 2011 and we went 10 wins to 7 wins to 4 wins with horrible, program history level bad defenses and ugly loses and fight for you life wins to teams like William and Mary.

In 2012/2013 this 2017 recruiting class was in...9th/10th grade range, just as you point out, that juust as easily can be your reason for recruiting taking any downturn . Penn State had depth issues too and went through prob about the worst thing that could happen to a football program in the modern era and their worst year? 7 wins.

As they say, winning cures all, lack of an extension my foot.
We may have lost 1 or 2 kids in this class over the contract extension but its not near the big deal that some make it out to be. We are currently sitting about where we have finished in recruiting rankings since Dana came to WVU with plenty of spots open to climb a lot higher in rankings and fill needs. We finish in the 30's and nothing changes, nothing. 2018 could bring a slight bump up...if we keep winning!

Iowa extended Ferentz until dooms day in September,this season.....and they are behind us in the recruiting rankings. 2012 record...4-8

 

[bbwvfan]

Interesting to read the Dana-haters spin. Do y'all respect Shane because he settled for a coach like Dana? None of you think Dana was going anywhere, so why extend a guy who isn't worth it? Why not go get someone more accomplished... someone who could take the program to elite status?

If your boy Shane is all that, he had to have a hot shot coach ready to go. If Shane settled for Dana, then Shane should be fired. WVU deserves better...

 

[bbwvfan]

So, where was the big boost in recruiting when Luck signed Dana to about as iron clad long term contract on Dana's end that he could have after the 2011 season? It should have boomed with your reasoning..

What killed any recruiting momentum in the '16/'17 class is the 2012/2013 season where Dana and co. folded halfway through '12 then lost to teams like KU and Iowa State in his 3rd year as a HC in'13. Yea it wasn't all his fault because of the depth chart issues but recruits didn't know or care about that, they saw a downward trend going on at a place where its hard to sell to begin with. Dana took over the program in 2011 and we went 10 wins to 7 wins to 4 wins with horrible, program history level bad defenses and ugly loses and fight for you life wins to teams like William and Mary.

In 2012/2013 this 2017 recruiting class was in...9th/10th grade range, just as you point out, that juust as easily can be your reason for recruiting taking any downturn . Penn State had depth issues too and went through prob about the worst thing that could happen to a football program in the modern era and their worst year? 7 wins.

As they say, winning cures all, lack of an extension my foot.
We may have lost 1 or 2 kids in this class over the contract extension but its not near the big deal that some make it out to be. We are currently sitting about where we have finished in recruiting rankings since Dana came to WVU with plenty of spots open to climb a lot higher in rankings and fill needs. We finish in the 30's and nothing changes, nothing. 2018 could bring a slight bump up...if we keep winning!

Iowa extended Ferentz until dooms day in September,this season.....and they are behind us in the recruiting rankings. 2012 record...4-8

Pretty sure WVU got a big boost in recruiting following the '11 extension. According to scout.com the '12 recruiting class was the best of Dana's tenure... the '13 class fell just one spot lower... #27 and #28 respectively.

Prior to Dana's extension, scout.com had the '17 class ranked in the high 50's. There is no doubt that a couple of the JUCO's who committed and recently signed their LOI did so after Dana was good to go. While we lost out on Lamont Wade, he mentioned Dana's status as being a huge factor in his final decision. A highly rated QB recruit also mentioned Dana's status as something he was watching this fall.

To think the extension made no difference in recruiting is a true head scratcher.

The '13 season resulted in bringing some of our best players to WVU. These kids were juniors in high school during that year. The '15 class had three 4-stars... Durante, Cole and Douglas. Of course, we lost Cole... but, that class also included David Long, Adam Shuler, Gary Jennings, Xavier Pegues, Colton McKivitz and Ka'Raun White.

How many 4 star recruits do we have in this year's class? According to scout.com, we have 1. According to 247 Composite, we have zero.

Yeah... extension didn't have any affect. But, those 10 wins? Yep... it has brought in all of the highly rated kids...

 

[GoldRusher]

The 247 rankings have us from 31-39 through those years currently 41. that lower rating ( which can still climb a lot depending on who else commits by signing day) can just as easily be attributed to Lonnie Galloway and his recruiting talents going to Louisville for a OCord position which he was not going to get under Dana. If Lonnie is still here does that ranking look a little better right now?? Prob so imho.
One thing Lyons DOES need to do right now is make absolutely sure that Dana is set up for success as far as coaching hires in the weaker areas (special teams) and nailing down the hires that so far look good (Wickline). He needs to have Dana's back and use any and all contacts and work with Dana to get the best guys around him that he can. I don't know that we have that right now.

 

[bbwvfan]

Despite any difference in recruiting rankings between the services, we cannot ignore these significant stats... the number of high school seniors... the number of highly rated commits.

WVU currently has zero 4 stars according to 247. There are none on the radar.

Galloway was a great recruiter. Blue has shown his worth so far. Carrier too...

Again... one cannot forget... kids are telling the recruiting guru's that Dana's status had an impact. Dana stated his contract had an impact.

All of this is on Shane...