Could the Lions transition to the 3-4 defense?

[jdwills126]

I hear talk about some Head Coach candidates and their D-Coordinators the Lions are looking at that may run the 3-4 defense. Most switches from the 4-3 to the 3-4 mean personnel changes and finding guys that have experience in the new defense. But looking at the Lions would a move to the 3-4 be all that difficult?


Fairley is the stereo typical nose tackle and could move to that position without difficulty.

Suh would be a beast as the outside DE position. Strong, fast and would create problems for teams from the edge.

The other outside lineman would be a tougher hole. Between Willie Young, Idonije, or Ansah I think they could find a guy.

Linebackers would be a tough fix unless they drafted a guy like Mack or Barr. Tulloch and Levy inside, Ansah, Young, Palmer, Whitehead, Taylor, or draft pick for the OLBs.

The front seven sounds really athletic and with guys like Ansah, Suh, Young, and Taylor I think the pass rush would actually be better. But the pass coverage and short yardage defense could be a problem.

IMO the Lions could make the move to a 3-4 and that it would not be a deal breaker for a HC hire.

 

[RobBase]

Ziggy at OLB
Nick and Suh at the ends
Prob need a true 3-4 Nose

but ya that's the rumor. If we could draft Khalil Mack that would be ideal.

 

[jayfan]

I disagree about Fairley. Big 4-3 DT's who are used to putting their hand in the dirt and rushing the QB on every play typically HATE switching to a 34 scheme. Albert Haynesworth basically quit because of it. Darnel Dockett wanted to. The list goes on. I'd be prepared to say goodbye to Nick if we go 3-4.

 

[Thruthefog]

Hell I hope not. The 3-4 is a pussy ass defense.

If the Lions switch to a pussy ass defense, I'll go back to watching baseball.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

I disagree about Fairley. Big 4-3 DT's who are used to putting their hand in the dirt and rushing the QB on every play typically HATE switching to a 34 scheme. Albert Haynesworth basically quit because of it. Darnel Dockett wanted to. The list goes on. I'd be prepared to say goodbye to Nick if we go 3-4.

Fairley played DT in a 3-4 at Auburn. I don't think he's your typical Casey Hampton or Haloti Ngata from Bal. Suh, Fairley, Devin Taylor (6-6 280) front line... Ansah OLB with Tulloch and Levy inside and Draft an OLB (Mack, C. Jones, Dee Ford). You still have T. Lewis, Palmer and Whitehead as rotation. Not that far fetched. Draft another DT (Minnesota Hageman 6-6 318 or Penn St DaQuan Jones 6-3 320) or a FA

 

[Quackerjacked]

It would have to be a specific type of 3-4. A wade Phillips style. One outside linebacker only drops into coverage once or twice a game. you're defensive ends still attack. We have guys to build off of on this scheme but we would need to bring in a true nose tackle and a bigger outside backer that can still rush the passer opposite our converted defensive ends.

 

[Quackerjacked]

I meant can still cover.

 

[jdwills126]

I always thought the LBs were the best athletes on defense and getting the best athletes on the field was what made it a good style. I am not a fan of Palmer in the 4-3 but I actually think he would be a good rotational guy in the 3-4 and worth the money the Lions signed him for.

Fairley at nose IMO. He is a space eating monster that would demand a double team.

 

[jdwills126]

On passing downs bring in Carey at OLB, Greenwood as a safety would offer the Lions some real flexibility.

It will be an interesting offseason if the Lions go this route.

 

[broncosmitty]

Jason Jones can serve as DT AND End. (This was covered at some point in the past). But could he serve as a DE in a 3-4 just as well?

 

[broncosmitty]

Hell I hope not. The 3-4 is a pussy ass defense.

If the Lions switch to a pussy ass defense, I'll go back to watching baseball.

Are you going to watch baseball even if we stick to a non-blitzing 4-3?

 

[jayfan]

It would have to be a specific type of 3-4. A wade Phillips style. One outside linebacker only drops into coverage once or twice a game. you're defensive ends still attack. We have guys to build off of on this scheme but we would need to bring in a true nose tackle and a bigger outside backer that can still rush the passer opposite our converted defensive ends.

Yep. Fairley's talents are kinda wasted with 2-gap responsibility. I feel a bit better if he was exposed to 3-4 at Auburn, but he was definitely on the attack a lot there.

 

[jayfan]

If Whisenhunt is the guy, there's a fair chance that Clancey Pendergast will be the DC. He was Whiz's DC at Arizona, and he's newly out of a job since the staff change at USC. Here is an informative article about his 5-2 defensive formation, and how it compares to the 3-4, 3-4 under and 4-3 under:

Clancy Pendergast – The “5-2″ Defensive Front

Posted by trojanfootballstatistics on August 16, 2013


It has definitely been a long offseason, and a lot has been going on. I think that the biggest developments during the offseason are the ongoing quarterback battle and the coaching changes. The most notable coaching change is the passing of the torch from Monte Kiffin to Clancy Pendergast at Defensive Coordinator.

This post will be the first in a three or four part series analyzing the differences we can expect from Clancy Pendergast. We will take a high level look at what Pendergast’s “5-2″ defensive front encompasses, some overall differences that you will see between the “Monte” defense and the “Pendergast” defense, and the frequency that Pendergast is in this defensive front. In the next few posts, we will look at the secondary alignment and the defensive calls made by Pendergast.

The “5-2″ Defensive Front

The buzz word around the media and campus is the “5-2″ defense that Pendergast is bringing to USC. So what is the “5-2″ defensive front?

A defensive front is the combination of defensive linemen and linebackers that a defense utilizes as well as their alignment. Typically, when they name a defensive front, the first number refers to the number of linemen and the second refers to the number of linebackers (ex: “4-3″ means four defensive linemen and three linebackers). On the surface, a football fan may think that the “5-2″ defense means five defensive linemen and two linebackers. However, this is not quite correct in terms of what we will see with USC this season. The defense does share similarities to the older “5-2 Oklahoma” defense played back in the day, which is why I suspect they like to call it the “5-2.” However, in modern terms, Clancy Pendergast’s “5-2″ defense actually shows much more resemblance to what is known as a “3-4 Under.” Three defensive linemen with four linebackers.

This is not to be confused with a standard “3-4″ defense, which is why I suspect Pendergast decided to call this defense a “5-2.” Despite its name similarity, the “3-4″ is inherently different in a number of ways from the “3-4 Under.”

A standard “3-4″ defense has the defenders aligned head to head against a corresponding offensive linemen. The nose tackle is matched up against the center, the defensive ends against the tackles, and the inside linebackers against the guards.


A typical 3-4 defense.

This means the players use “two-gap” coverage, where defenders are responsible for two gaps and will read what the offense does and react to fill the required gap, either to the left or to the right. The defensive linemen in this system are typically bigger and can command double team blocks, opening up the linebackers to make the tackles.


Gap responsibilities in a 3-4 defense.

On the flip side, the “3-4 Under” defense has the defensive linemen offset so that they are no longer heads up against an offensive linemean. Instead, they are shaded so that they are in a gap. The outside linebackers, “Sam” and “Jack,” are also brought down onto the line of scrimmage to protect the perimeter.


A typical 3-4 Under defense.

Aligning the defensive linemen in the gaps allows for “single gap” coverage, meaning each defender is responsible to control only one gap. This means that the players are free to play a little more aggressively right at the snap of the ball since they are not reading and reacting to the offense.


Gap responsibilities in a 3-4 Under defense.

Here is a look at the “5-2″ defense you can expect to see from both the side angle and the front angle. You can get a better perspective on how each player is aligned and their respective gaps.

A view from the side and back of USC's defense on the same play at the 2013 Trojan Huddle
A view from the side and front of USC’s defense on the same play during the 2013 Trojan Huddle. Click on the picture for a larger image.

Differences with Monte’s Defensive Front

Monte Kiffin preferred the “4-3 Under” defense. It is very similar to the “3-4 Under” in terms of responsibilities. Like the “3-4 Under,” linemen are shaded in the gaps between their offensive counterparts and utilize single gap responsibility. Since they are both “Under” fronts, the defensives are shaded towards the strong side.


A typical 4-3 Under with gap responsibilities.

Compared to to the “4-3 Under,” USC will give up some size on the weak side in the switch to the “5-2.” This lack of size will be made up for in speed. This is because the “4-3 Under” has a two defensive linemen and a linebacker on the weak side while the “3-4 Under” has one defensive linemen and two linebackers. Overall, this might be a good tradeoff based on how many spread offenses are now within the Pac-12.

[Update: As suggested to me via forum poster WhoAteOurMonkey, trading size for speed on the weak side may not be completely correct based on how the starting personnel turns out. Monte Kiffin liked larger defensive tackles with smaller defensive ends backed by smaller but quicker linebackers. This year seems to be shaping up by adding another large body up front and moving the pass rushers like Morgan Breslin to the outside edge spot and shifting the rangier linebackers to the defensive secondary. This is something I hadn't considered at the time of writing. Food for thought and something to consider. As always, I value any feedback and discussion.]

The “5-2″ also gives a little bit more flexibility to stretch your linebackers to either perimeter when facing four or five receiver sets since there are linebackers on the outside edge of both sides. In addition, the “5-2″ has a little bit more potential for misdirection as you can switch around which linebacker will pass rush without losing much in terms of pass coverage ability.

Frequency of Calls

I went ahead and rewatched the 2010, 2011, and 2012 USC vs Cal games as well as this past Trojan Huddle Spring game to gather some numbers on how often Pendergast lines up in his “5-2″ defensive front. Keep in mind that these statistics that I gathered may be skewed from what we will see in the upcoming season because all these games are against USC’s pro-style offense.

So what do we find?

I noted that Clancy Pendergast was in the “5-2″ in 185 plays out of the 275 defensive plays that I tracked. This comes to 67% of plays being in this defensive front. The remainder of the defensive front calls were mostly filled with Nickel (28% of plays) followed by Dime (1.5% of plays), 4-3 (0.7% of plays), and other (2% of plays).

The distribution of play calls with each type of defensive front
The distribution of play calls with each type of defensive front.

It is notable that the Nickel defensive calls are a bit different than what Monte Kiffin did in previous seasons. When Monte goes into Nickel defense, he typically removes a linebacker and replaces him with a nickelback (aka, a third cornerback). This creates something like a “4-2″ defensive front. However, Pendergast would either trade out one of the linebackers for a nickelback, creating more of a “3-3″ look, or he would trade out a defensive linemen, creating a “2-4″ look. From the games I watched, Pendergast traded out a linebacker 19% of the time when in Nickel and traded out a defensive linemen 81% of the time. Since the Nickel is typically used for passing situations, you don’t necessarily need your big linemen as anchors to stop the run, and instead can rely on speedy linebackers to get to the Quarterback.

The “other” front I noted which were used by Pendergast was the “Psycho” front. The “Psycho” front is a defense which is predicated in confusing the opposing offense. The defense may have two, one, or no down linemen.

Pendergast calls a Psycho front against USC in 2012.
Pendergast calls a Psycho front against USC in 2012.

The “Psycho” front gives the offense no indication if there will be a heavy blitz or soft coverage, and can utilize a lot of motion pre-snap to confuse the offense. Read more about the “Psycho” on Smart Football.

Conclusions

In and of itself, the switch from the “4-3 Under” to the “5-2″ is not a huge change. Size is traded for speed on the weak side, can stretch to the perimeter a little easier, and has some additional potential for misdirection in terms of pass pressure. We’ll go more into coverage types and play calling in the final post in this series.

Our next post will take a look at the secondary alignment such as press vs. loose coverage. It will also include a deeper statistical look at how successful Pendergast’s calls were while in various secondary configurations.

 

[jayfan]

Related

Clancy Pendergast - Secondary Alignment
In "Defensive Stats"

Clancy Pendergast - Defensive Play Calling
In "Defensive Stats"

Links on new Defensive Coordinator Clancy Pendergast
In "Game Strategy"

This entry was posted in Defensive Stats, Game Strategy, Season Recap Statistics, Team Preview and tagged 3-4 Under, 5-2, Pendergast. Bookmark the permalink.


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[Gulf of Brazil]

Yep. Fairley's talents are kinda wasted with 2-gap responsibility. I feel a bit better if he was exposed to 3-4 at Auburn, but he was definitely on the attack a lot there.

For 2 years, under former HC Gene Chizik, Fairley played 0-technique NT but mostly 1-technique DT sometimes 2-technique over OG, not to mention sliding over as a DE playing 3 and 4 technique DE. It's fact as I watch college 12-14 hours every Saturday for the decade plus.

 

[Old Lion]

I would stick to the 4 man front with the nickel as the base with 3 safeties. Defense played well enough last year. They really were not the problem. Offense turning the ball over was the problem.

We do need to mix in the blitzes more though as it can get a bit predictable.

 

[Thruthefog]

Are you going to watch baseball even if we stick to a non-blitzing 4-3?

Schwartz is gone.

 

[Thruthefog]

I would stick to the 4 man front with the nickel as the base with 3 safeties. Defense played well enough last year. They really were not the problem. Offense turning the ball over was the problem.

We do need to mix in the blitzes more though as it can get a bit predictable.

I couldn't have said it better.

 

[broncosmitty]

Schwartz is gone.

Gunny isn't...

 

[tpaulus_2]

Gunny isn't...

Gunny loves to blitz, though. His defenses in KC were built around it...