Could someone explain to me that out of bounds review?

[Tharvot]

Only thing I can think of is that they didn't have the one angle we saw on TV that clearly showed Winslow's finger bend backwards as it touched the ball.

 

[jonvi]

hell, there are plenty of times when an official IS on the line, sees it and doesn't call it.

^^^According to many, that happened in the Duke/Wisc game.

 

[GenJac]

Just to keep you up to date. The ncaa announced on Sports Center that they failed to show the officials the best view of the out of bounds.

 

[GoreRush]

Just to keep you up to date. The ncaa announced on Sports Center that they failed to show the officials the best view of the out of bounds.

Of what use is replay then? When the NCAA supervisor of officials admits that he saw a replay that would have changed an incorrect call and then opts to not call the officials back to the table, what does this say of the NCAA?

It was a great tournament but either use the technology to get it right or do away with the replay system altogether.

 

[GenJac]

Tired of hearing about the out of bounds play! Don't blow a 9 point 2nd half lead. That's why the Badgers lost not the refs calls one way or another.

 

[GoreRush]

And while I'm at it I have a bigger problem with the ref missing the Duke Player stepping out of bounds. That was a huge miss. I also know charging is a judgement call, but when Justice stumbled into Kaminski and it was called blocking, that was a huge miss in the momentum of the game. The best officials in the game are supposed to be in the finals - and I think they ended up having too much of an impact on the game. How does Wisconsin get called for so many fouls in the 2nd half when in every other game, they rarely foul??? I think you can find 9-10 points that were directly an outcome of the refs calls/decisions.

 

[cwerph]

technically possession never was changed since the initial call was Duke ball to begin with. I get what you are saying though

It should have been Wisconsin's ball. It was given to Duke. These are the facts, and they are not in dispute.

 

[redseat]

It should have been Wisconsin's ball. It was given to Duke. These are the facts, and they are not in dispute.

the only way you truly saw who it went off us was in slow-mo... So don't state it clearly should have been Wisconsin's ball

 

[redseat]

I admit I bitch and moan about the officials and they did suck that night but it's extremely tough job where you make a split second decision and have a lifetime of people bitching at you afterwards

 

[trojanfan12]

Just to keep you up to date. The ncaa announced on Sports Center that they failed to show the officials the best view of the out of bounds.

Yeah, they were talking about that on Dan Patrick this morning. Apparently, the officials on the floor didn't get the view that showed it clearly off of Winslow's fingertip. The head official saw that replay before the ball was put back in play and says that he thought about calling them back, but decided not to.

Not sure which is worse, him not calling them back when there was still time to get the call right. Or the fact that he was stupid enough to actually admit that he saw the replay in time to call them back and chose not to.

 

[gpm1976]

Yeah, they were talking about that on Dan Patrick this morning. Apparently, the officials on the floor didn't get the view that showed it clearly off of Winslow's fingertip. The head official saw that replay before the ball was put back in play and says that he thought about calling them back, but decided not to.

Not sure which is worse, him not calling them back when there was still time to get the call right. Or the fact that he was stupid enough to actually admit that he saw the replay in time to call them back and chose not to.

But doesn't this sound like bullshit to you? This was maybe the most crucial call of the game.. and the head official just decided to do nothing? Within seconds of that play happening, the whole world knew it was Wisconsin ball. The system that they are trying so hard to correct still clearly doesn't work. This was the biggest game of the year, and that 2nd half was possibly the worst half of officiating of the season. No one from this crew should ever be allowed to officiate another game.

 

[trojanfan12]

But doesn't this sound like bullshit to you? This was maybe the most crucial call of the game.. and the head official just decided to do nothing? Within seconds of that play happening, the whole world knew it was Wisconsin ball. The system that they are trying so hard to correct still clearly doesn't work. This was the biggest game of the year, and that 2nd half was possibly the worst half of officiating of the season. No one from this crew should ever be allowed to officiate another game.

The head official's reasoning for not alerting the guys on the floor that there was a better view (that he didn't want to influence the outcome of the game), is what is bullshit to me. The whole point of replay is to get the call right. By not saying anything, he did the very thing that he claims that he didn't want to do.

I'm not sure that I blame the refs on the floor. They can only go with what they are shown. It actually took a few different angles before we saw the definitive one. Myself and all of the folks I was watching the game with all said "Duke ball" through the first few replays. Then they showed the one where it clearly went off of his fingertips, but had to zoom in to see that. That's when we all went "Nope, Wiscy ball."

Imo, assuming what the head official said is true, he is the one who should face some sort of disciplinary action.

 

[gpm1976]

The head official's reasoning for not alerting the guys on the floor that there was a better view (that he didn't want to influence the outcome of the game), is what is bullshit to me. The whole point of replay is to get the call right. By not saying anything, he did the very thing that he claims that he didn't want to do.

I'm not sure that I blame the refs on the floor. They can only go with what they are shown. It actually took a few different angles before we saw the definitive one. Myself and all of the folks I was watching the game with all said "Duke ball" through the first few replays. Then they showed the one where it clearly went off of his fingertips, but had to zoom in to see that. That's when we all went "Nope, Wiscy ball."

Imo, assuming what the head official said is true, he is the one who should face some sort of disciplinary action.

I think the 2nd half was riddled with poor officiating, but the head official letting this one go was beyond forgiveness. It completely ruined the game. This thing could have gone into overtime.. maybe even gone down as the best NC game of all time. But instead, one call completely deflated Wisconsin and ruined a great comeback.

 

[trojanfan12]

I think the 2nd half was riddled with poor officiating, but the head official letting this one go was beyond forgiveness. It completely ruined the game. This thing could have gone into overtime.. maybe even gone down as the best NC game of all time. But instead, one call completely deflated Wisconsin and ruined a great comeback.

Yeah, I thought the officiating throughout the entire tournament was pretty sub-par. The only thing that can be said is that it was generally bad officiating both ways.

I expect we'll see some rule changes, etc. because a lot of people seem to be focusing on the issue.

 

[gpm1976]

Yeah, I thought the officiating throughout the entire tournament was pretty sub-par. The only thing that can be said is that it was generally bad officiating both ways.

I expect we'll see some rule changes, etc. because a lot of people seem to be focusing on the issue.

Yeah, once this tournament ended, the focus of conversation has been on officiating. I hope this is enough to force them to do something about it.

 

[TrollyMcTroller]

But doesn't this sound like bullshit to you? This was maybe the most crucial call of the game.. and the head official just decided to do nothing? Within seconds of that play happening, the whole world knew it was Wisconsin ball. The system that they are trying so hard to correct still clearly doesn't work. This was the biggest game of the year, and that 2nd half was possibly the worst half of officiating of the season. No one from this crew should ever be allowed to officiate another game.

It wasn't the head official of the game. It was John Adams, the NCAA head of officiating. It's not really his place to step in at that moment.

Also, it wasn't within seconds. The review was more like minute than seconds, and every angle shown was completely inconclusive until they finally showed the slow-mo, zoomed in, alternate camera angle, and that only happened right as the officials were concluding their review.

That said, I agree the crew did a terrible job.

 

[jonvi]

It wasn't the head official of the game. It was John Adams, the NCAA head of officiating. It's not really his place to step in at that moment.

Also, it wasn't within seconds. The review was more like minute than seconds, and every angle shown was completely inconclusive until they finally showed the slow-mo, zoomed in, alternate camera angle, and that only happened right as the officials were concluding their review.

That said, I agree the crew did a terrible job.

^^^This^^^

 

[TrollyMcTroller]

Holy Shit, it IS a conspiracy! That bastard, John Adams was lying!

NCAA VP: Actually, Refs Did Have The Best Angle On Controversial Play

The officials did indeed have the camera angle that was shown on the CBS broadcast. It was the last angle they did see. They likely did not stay long enough with a review to see that angle magnified. But they made their determination based on the two-minute review and the camera angle that was shown on CBS and with that determined that there wasn't indisputable evidence to overturn the call.

Oh, so you mean they saw the angle, but they didn't have a chance to see the super-zoomed, super slow-mo, version within the required 2 minutes, which is what John Adams said in the first place.


Why conclude a conspiracy is afoot when the actions can be attributed to good old fashioned incompetence instead?

 

[gpm1976]

It wasn't the head official of the game. It was John Adams, the NCAA head of officiating. It's not really his place to step in at that moment.

Also, it wasn't within seconds. The review was more like minute than seconds, and every angle shown was completely inconclusive until they finally showed the slow-mo, zoomed in, alternate camera angle, and that only happened right as the officials were concluding their review.

That said, I agree the crew did a terrible job.

Well, regardless of the time frame, this was the most pivotal moment of the game and they apparently rushed it and made the wrong call. I think you can even see his fingers flex in the first angle we see. Enough evidence for me to say we need to explore this a little more. I saw in another post that you suggested they didn't have the zoomed in, super slow-mo version. So if this is the case, then why bother? The whole point of video review was to give these guys a tool with which to see play close up, super slow-mo and at every angle so they can make the correct call. Anyways, this was just the tip of the iceberg. The inconsistency in which they called contact fouls is WAY worse.

 

[TrollyMcTroller]

Well, regardless of the time frame, this was the most pivotal moment of the game and they apparently rushed it and made the wrong call. I think you can even see his fingers flex in the first angle we see. Enough evidence for me to say we need to explore this a little more. I saw in another post that you suggested they didn't have the zoomed in, super slow-mo version. So if this is the case, then why bother? The whole point of video review was to give these guys a tool with which to see play close up, super slow-mo and at every angle so they can make the correct call. Anyways, this was just the tip of the iceberg. The inconsistency in which they called contact fouls is WAY worse.

No, it wasn't the most pivotal moment of the game. It was no more pivotal, important, significant or otherwise special than any other out of bounds play. The problem isn't that they screwed up a pivotal call. The problem is that they screwed up a call, period.

The took two minutes to review the play, which is actually a fairly long time considering the actual time they were interested in was just a couple of seconds. It isn't the Zapruder film. They are looking for indisputable evidence to see if a call needs to be overturned. If it takes that much time to determine if the call was wrong, it is not indisputable.

And once again, you're misquoting me. I said in another post that they didn't see the other angle. From what the NCAA is saying, they had access to it, they just didn't use it. Yes, it sucks that they didn't elect to, but the only "fix" for that is to make them watch every angle every time and the one or two calls that get fixed by doing that don't outweigh the disruption to the game in my opinion.

Those refs have worked hundreds of games over their respective careers, and in pretty much ever single one, there are 6 or so cameras. 1 or 2 at half court (the "normal" view that we see during the game) a camera mounted in each goal, and a camera usually held by a fat guy sitting on a wheeled chair in each endzone. So it's not unreasonable to think that after doing hundreds of games, and thousands of reviews where you ask for the half-court view, then the overhead view, then the endzone view, that they did the exact same thing in the Final Four despite having several more cameras available to them. Also worth noting that the fine folks in the production booth (you know... the people that own and set up all of those extra cameras used in the Final Four) seemed to forget for a while that they had additional views as well (which is why we didn't see the alternate angle until a couple of minutes in)

Yeah, it sucks that the call was blown, but instant replay isn't going to fix everything. It's still an imperfect system, run by imperfect people. No amount of bitching and moaning about it will ever change that. No rule changes will fix that. Nothing will. Bad calls are a fact of life.