Colie says cut out the diving

[dash]

We'll see if it has any impact...

http://www.calgarysun.com/2011/05/07/nhl-exec-says-officials-wont-stand-for-diving

 

[PhillyPhaithful48]

I really think divers should face consequences after games. It is too difficult for refs to determine dives in game, so players attempting to take advantage of that should be fined. Harsher penalties for repeat offenders eventually too.

 

[dash]

Didn't the league say they would crack down on embellishment a few years ago (even sending warnings to players as well as fines to repeat offenders). I like the game of soccer, but I don't like the diving in soccer and the embellishment is getting out of control on the NHL as well.

 

[esls79]

So back in the first round when Ducks GM Bob Murray told his team to dive and embellish, he was ridiculed on this board as being a typical whiner. This seems to validate his point to some extent.

If a GM like Ken Holland had come out and said the same thing, I'd bet the reaction on here would be far different.

 

[dash]

So back in the first round when Ducks GM Bob Murray told his team to dive and embellish, he was ridiculed on this board as being a typical whiner. This seems to validate his point to some extent.

If a GM like Ken Holland had come out and said the same thing, I'd bet the reaction on here would be far different.

I don't know, esls, it's one thing to suggest that you don't think you're getting a fair shake from the officials (ala Mike Gillis), it's quite another to suggest you're going to dive and embellish (i.e. circumvent the rules) because you think the other team is doing it and getting away with it.

I would suggest the Gillis approach is just gamesmenship when Murray is a combination of gamesmenship and whining. I don't think Ken Holland would ever come out with something like Murray said, but if he did, he would deserve criticism as well.

 

[postmaster]

I can't imagine Hollard saying that, but if he did, I would be critical of his comments.
I don't want my team being told to dive. I would be pissed.

 

[esls79]

I don't know, esls, it's one thing to suggest that you don't think you're getting a fair shake from the officials (ala Mike Gillis), it's quite another to suggest you're going to dive and embellish (i.e. circumvent the rules) because you think the other team is doing it and getting away with it.

I would suggest the Gillis approach is just gamesmenship when Murray is a combination of gamesmenship and whining. I don't think Ken Holland would ever come out with something like Murray said, but if he did, he would deserve criticism as well.

I thought what Murray did was equal parts clever and whining - it did fire his team up for their next game. On the other hand, a good team should be able to rise above it and win despite the perceived disadvantages it is dealt from the zebras.

As for Holland, he would never say something like that, so the point is moot - all I was saying is Murray was ridiculed on here probably because he the GM of one of the most hated teams on this board, when in fact with respect to this article, he did have some validity with his remarks, whining or not.

 

[PhillyPhaithful48]

Can't really blame the young players today though. We were brought up by the Gordon Bombay rules of hockey.

 

[BOSSMANPC]

I agree it seems to have gotten worse in the playoffs, but no coach or GM should ever publicly say his team is going to do it because other teams are getting away with it.

Another problem I have noticed is players are turning their faces towards the boards just before contact is made to try and get the hitting from behind penalties. If you want to turn at the last second to get the call too bad take the hit and man up.

It's like Roby has said during the Sabres broadcast, they need to stop tinkering with the rules every few weeks because there is no consistency and even the refs don't know what to call anymore.

I don't recall what game it was because I was a bit doped up at the time but one of the games last week had a play where a player dropped a beautiful text book hip check on another player and was called for boarding or interference. It was one of the worst calls I ever saw. The guy's on VS during the game and intermission said it was a complete joke. Have we taken hip checks out of the game now?

Anyway these guy's should be able to see if a player is embellishing a play better than they seem to. I would like to see more discussion between the ref's (like the NFL officials do) and if they determine no penalty then pick up the flag and play on.

It's slowly becoming soccer and I don't like it.

 

[PhillyPhaithful48]

I agree it seems to have gotten worse in the playoffs, but no coach or GM should ever publicly say his team is going to do it because other teams are getting away with it.

Another problem I have noticed is players are turning their faces towards the boards just before contact is made to try and get the hitting from behind penalties. If you want to turn at the last second to get the call too bad take the hit and man up.

It's like Roby has said during the Sabres broadcast, they need to stop tinkering with the rules every few weeks because there is no consistency and even the refs don't know what to call anymore.

I don't recall what game it was because I was a bit doped up at the time but one of the games last week had a play where a player dropped a beautiful text book hip check on another player and was called for boarding or interference. It was one of the worst calls I ever saw. The guy's on VS during the game and intermission said it was a complete joke. Have we taken hip checks out of the game now?

Anyway these guy's should be able to see if a player is embellishing a play better than they seem to. I would like to see more discussion between the ref's (like the NFL officials do) and if they determine no penalty then pick up the flag and play on.

It's slowly becoming soccer and I don't like it.

I've been saying the same thing about the hits from behind. Players are using the rules to their advantage and not only putting themselves in a vulnerable position, but also making some hits seem way worse than they actually are. I know my guys have been called for this several times...some deserving some not. This isn't the European game or France. Players need to stop assuming people arent going to hit them when they make these last second moves and spin around.

 

[dash]

Bieksa deserves some credit for calling out his teammates...

Kevin Bieksa warns team diving threatens the integrity of the game - The White Towel

 

[esls79]

I disagree with why Murray said what he did, but he did make it well known that diving and embellishing are too big of a problem in the playoffs this year - which now Campbell is admitting to. You simply cannot justify saying you're going to do something because you see your opponent getting away with it, however. You can't publicly say you're going to get retribution on an opponent for a dirty hit missed by the men in stripes and this is no different.

As much as the post lockout rules have opened up the game, the faster play leads to a different type of physicality, and that has lead to these types of plays - head shots, players turning away from a hit into the boards at the last second, etc. The NHL needs to evolve as this is (as much as some of us don't like to admit it) a new NHL - the rules are evolving. The NHL is at a crossroads for rules right now - the new ones have changed the game, but the changed game needs additional rules to make it work better. I have issues with former players from the 80's and 90's saying let them play (like Rob Ray), because they have no idea what the new game is like on the ice. The NHL needs a strong competition committee with current players, something of which it seems to lack - the GM's seem to be in charge of the rules. As much as GM's know, and as much as former player turned analysts know, some of whom even sit between the benches, they cannot experience the current game today's players do.

With that being said, diving and embellishing was around pre lockout and its intent is the same now - to dupe the official into a powerplay for your team - and it works pretty well. The rules for this are there, they haven't really evolved - and unfortunately, the game has too much acting and too many elements of soccer because the rules are not deemed important.

I've been reading today's NHL is too violent and concussions are going to ruin the sport, but the integrity of the league is very important as well - and diving and embellishing degrades the integrity of the league as well.

 

[awaz]

its really an easy fix. stop telling the players to stop diving and start calling only diving. 99 times out of 100 if the official calls diving he calls the other player for whatever infraction is being embellished. that sends the message that if a player dives, the worst possible outcome is 4 on 4, aka diving is a low-risk, high reward activity

if a player dives/embellishes, call diving, dont call the other penalty. its a simple way to get diving out of the game.

or, if you really want to get drastic, make diving a major penalty, that'll bring some bad-ass-ness back into the game's reputation around the world

 

[puckhead]

Didn't the league say they would crack down on embellishment a few years ago (even sending warnings to players as well as fines to repeat offenders). I like the game of soccer, but I don't like the diving in soccer and the embellishment is getting out of control on the NHL as well.

they also used to publish a list of this week's divers.
I guess the 'shame campaign' didn't sit well with the NHLPA.


on a side note, why the fuck is the newspaper using a picture of Luongo diving for a puck in an article about embellishing calls?
oh, it's from Calgary. nevermind.


on another side note, why is Dash reading Eric Francis?

 

[dash]

on another side note, why is Dash reading Eric Francis?

Valid question - I was on the Calgarypuck site earlier and came across a thread that contained the link to the Francis article. Francis is a hack, but I thought the story merited discussion.

 

[sherbert1421]

san jose will be a good test to see if they are serious about this or not

 

[Slimpikins]

The Sharks don't dive, they are just really bad skaters.

 

[Eddie_Shack]

I wonder if Jumbo Jim will be getting a call about last night. He reacted like a velociraptor had kicked him in the balls after that love tap by Franzen.

 

[Eddie_Shack]

 

[jstewismybastardson]

I was just gonna ask if he was going to miss game 6 with the dreaded bruised skate blade injury