CB Trae Waynes

[PDay8810]

I like the way the board has been lately. Hopefully we can make it even better and not fall backwards to where it was...

I think the last few days has it moving slowly to the activity we once knew. I'm not sure what it was after the dusting early last September. Frankly, I expected some fan pride from the season in progress and that was pretty much no where to be found for the last 5 months on this board. It's kinda funny and sad all the same.

 

[cowboycolors]

Professional football is a business and not just some fanboy club for players we do or don't like.

Scattershooting while wondering who loved to use the term "Fanboy" on the board ?





With Apologies to the Great Mr. Sherrod

 

[snookdad]

I think AP is good for 2 yrs. That said I have no problem with us letting Murray and Randle walk, passing on AP, and Drafting Gurly or Gordon from Wisconsin in the 1st or 2nd round if a trade back presents itself. Waynes won't be there when we draft unless we trade up. We still have to many needs on defense to trade up, and the last time we traded up for a CB it didn't go so well for us.

 

[Greg]

I think AP is good for 2 yrs. That said I have no problem with us letting Murray and Randle walk, passing on AP, and Drafting Gurly or Gordon from Wisconsin in the 1st or 2nd round if a trade back presents itself. Waynes won't be there when we draft unless we trade up. We still have to many needs on defense to trade up, and the last time we traded up for a CB it didn't go so well for us.

Good post.

With the exception of taking a RB in the 1st round. College and Pro ball are just two different animals, and this is one of those positions that I think depends on some other variables when they are coming out instead of just rushing yards (imo). I didn't really want to turn this into a AP thread, but I guess I got the ball rolling here and should offer another opinion. If Murray does walk I don't see this as major concern for this team. He wants way too much money and is just too unreliable health-wise while coming off of a 400+ carries season (in which he got injured again). There will be less cheap options, and they really need to find a more dependable long term back imo. RB by committee is another option. Paying guys huge guaranteed dough with injury histories, scares the hell out of me. Team is also finally displaying some cap responsibility after getting burned with past bad contract extensions, and seem under control now with Garrett's supervision. Tagging Dez and letting Murray test FA are smart moves by this organization with all the chaos surrounding Dez's mind-set and Murray's health issues right now. Not just more of the same desperation and panic mode moves as we've been accustomed to seeing from this organization in the past out of sheer fear of losing players to FA.

Originally I thought that the best way to go in regards to Carr's ridiculous contract was to cut him. But after some research I found out that they would still have almost $7.5Mil in dead money heading into the 2016 season, if they did. The obvious correct course of action here would be to reduce his salary and cap hit going forward, laden with performance incentives like the did Doug Free. It improved his play dramatically afterwards. Carr has been fleecing this team for long enough, and even he must surely recognize that. He latest comments about not wanting to move on to a different team, shows that realization. Soooo, getting back to the OP's topic here, I think that CB in the 1st round of the draft, is no longer a numero uno priority for them anymore. I'll wait until until the FA shoes drop to see what happens with Murray and the rest of their FAsthey want to re-sign, before getting a clearer picture of their draft needs.

 

[PhoenixEagles1]

Carr won't redo his contract cause he's in a position of power. Dallas can't cut him because of the huge dead money hit. He's got all the leverage and it's a business as they all say.

 

[Greg]

Carr won't redo his contract cause he's in a position of power. Dallas can't cut him because of the huge dead money hit. He's got all the leverage and it's a business as they all say.

Don't really see the Cowboys taking $12.7Mil and $13.8Mil cap hits over the next two seasons for the way Carr has been playing, although he did play better towards the end of the season. They will cut him if he doesn't take a pay cut I'm pretty sure. Carr's recent comments about not wanting to change teams again, pretty much says that he knows his fate is already sealed if he doesn't take the pay cut. Good luck trying to get paid anywhere near that in the open market after 0 Ints. last season after he get's cut.

Carr carries a $12.717 Mil cap charge and is scheduled to make an $8 million base salary. Only Revis ($25 million) and Patrick Peterson ($14.791Mil) have higher salary-cap figures than Carr among corners. Carr did not have an interception in 2014, but he played much better in the final five games than he did in the first 11. Just not enough to warrant that payday. The Cowboys will offer Carr a chance to stay at a cheaper rate, like they did with right tackle Free in 2013, or cut just him altogether. Making Carr a post-June 1 cut saves them $8 million against the cap in 2015, but he would count $7.434Mil against the 2016 cap. If the Cowboys don’t designate Carr a June 1 cut, then they will save $566,000 against the cap in 2015, but he will not be on the 2016 books.

 

[PhoenixEagles1]

Don't really see the Cowboys taking $12.7Mil and $13.8Mil cap hits over the next two seasons for the way Carr has been playing, although he did play better towards the end of the season. They will cut him if he doesn't take a pay cut I'm pretty sure. Carr's recent comments about not wanting to change teams again, pretty much says that he knows his fate is already sealed if he doesn't take the pay cut. Good luck trying to get paid anywhere near that in the open market after 0 Ints. last season after he get's cut.

Carr carries a $12.717 Mil cap charge and is scheduled to make an $8 million base salary. Only Revis ($25 million) and Patrick Peterson ($14.791Mil) have higher salary-cap figures than Carr among corners. Carr did not have an interception in 2014, but he played much better in the final five games than he did in the first 11. Just not enough to warrant that payday. The Cowboys will offer Carr a chance to stay at a cheaper rate, like they did with right tackle Free in 2013, or cut just him altogether. Making Carr a post-June 1 cut saves them $8 million against the cap in 2015, but he would count $7.434Mil against the 2016 cap. If the Cowboys don’t designate Carr a June 1 cut, then they will save $566,000 against the cap in 2015, but he will not be on the 2016 books.

Again, he is not going to get cut or renegotiate. Usually the teams can manipulate the situation in their favor but Carrs contract puts him in complete power. Carr is owed about 25 million over the next 2 years and 20 million is guarenteed. Think about it. If you knew you were getting a GUARENTEED 20 million over the next two years whether you play or if you sit at home and watch TV would you pass on all that guarenteed cash? Why would he give that up? If Dallas cuts him they get 1/2 a million in savings. He is a Cowboy in 2015 cause his agent would never ever let him throw a guarenteed 20 million down the toilet. If your boss HAD to pay you $100,000 this year and $75,000 next year even if he fires you would you agree to tear that guaenteed $175,000 and get paid $40,000 this year and $35,000 next year... neither would I.

 

[PhoenixEagles1]

Don't really see the Cowboys taking $12.7Mil and $13.8Mil cap hits over the next two seasons for the way Carr has been playing, although he did play better towards the end of the season. They will cut him if he doesn't take a pay cut I'm pretty sure. Carr's recent comments about not wanting to change teams again, pretty much says that he knows his fate is already sealed if he doesn't take the pay cut. Good luck trying to get paid anywhere near that in the open market after 0 Ints. last season after he get's cut.

Carr carries a $12.717 Mil cap charge and is scheduled to make an $8 million base salary. Only Revis ($25 million) and Patrick Peterson ($14.791Mil) have higher salary-cap figures than Carr among corners. Carr did not have an interception in 2014, but he played much better in the final five games than he did in the first 11. Just not enough to warrant that payday. The Cowboys will offer Carr a chance to stay at a cheaper rate, like they did with right tackle Free in 2013, or cut just him altogether. Making Carr a post-June 1 cut saves them $8 million against the cap in 2015, but he would count $7.434Mil against the 2016 cap. If the Cowboys don’t designate Carr a June 1 cut, then they will save $566,000 against the cap in 2015, but he will not be on the 2016 books.

1. Don't really see the Cowboys taking $12.7Mil and $13.8Mil cap hits
Theres nothing Dallas can do about paying him that much, the majority of it is guarenteed. So Dallas will be paying him the majority of that no matter what.
2. Carr's recent comments about not wanting to change teams again, pretty much says that he knows his fate is already sealed if he doesn't take the pay cut.
He doesnt want to leave cause Dallas is a top team in the NFL. He does know his fate is sealed. His fate is he is getting a guarenteed $20 million over the next two years from the Cowboys no matter what.

 

[jarntt]

You are misreading Carr's contract. We don't owe him any more guaranteed money. Don't confuse the unallocated portion of his signing bonus with unpaid cash. We still need to account for $12M against our cap, but he already received all of that money. If we cut him today we wouldn't have to pay him anything. That is the incentive for him renegotiating.

 

[PhoenixEagles1]

You are misreading Carr's contract. We don't owe him any more guaranteed money. Don't confuse the unallocated portion of his signing bonus with unpaid cash. We still need to account for $12M against our cap, but he already received all of that money. If we cut him today we wouldn't have to pay him anything. That is the incentive for him renegotiating.

Oh, OK Jarntt.. I think I get it now. I was under the impression that they still owed him 25 millon and about 20 mill in guaranteed money. Its really hard to figure these contracts out sometimes. He only got a 10 million signing bonus and 25 million of the contract is guaranteed. It looks like they owe the cap only 12 million more in guaranteed money. 10 million of that 25 was given up front. Maybe it would make sense for him to do a new deal then. It seems like Dallas could cut his salary in half and save 4 to 5 million per year which would be huge in helping Dallas keep the players that they want to.

 

[Greg]

Again, he is not going to get cut or renegotiate. Usually the teams can manipulate the situation in their favor but Carrs contract puts him in complete power. Carr is owed about 25 million over the next 2 years and 20 million is guarenteed. Think about it. If you knew you were getting a GUARENTEED 20 million over the next two years whether you play or if you sit at home and watch TV would you pass on all that guarenteed cash? Why would he give that up? If Dallas cuts him they get 1/2 a million in savings. He is a Cowboy in 2015 cause his agent would never ever let him throw a guarenteed 20 million down the toilet. If your boss HAD to pay you $100,000 this year and $75,000 next year even if he fires you would you agree to tear that guaenteed $175,000 and get paid $40,000 this year and $35,000 next year... neither would I.

ncmalko1, Carr is not owed $20Mil "guaranteed" over the next two seasons lol. Let me see if I can put some of this into it's proper perspective.

Per RotoWorld:

"Brandon Carr Defensive Back 3/14/2012: Signed a five-year, $50.1 million contract. The deal contains $25.5 million guaranteed, including a $10 million signing bonus.

Per the Dallas Morning news 3/1/13:

Carr, who signed a five-year, $50.1 million deal last year, had his 2013 base salary reduced from $14.3 million to $715,000, according to Spotrac.com. The remainder of his salary was transferred into a signing bonus, which is guaranteed money.

“I restructured my contract basically just to free up some money to get some more players in,” Carr said.


Carr's Salary numbers/signing and restructure bonuses Per spotrac:
Salary/Sign Bonus/Restructure Bonus/Cap Hit/Dead Money







2012

$1,200,000 $2,000,000 0 $3,200,000 0
2013

$715,000 $2,000,000 $2,717,000 $5,432,000 $22,300,000
2014

$7,500,000 $2,000,000 $2,717,000 $12,217,000 $16,868,000
2015

$8,000,000 $2,000,000 $2,717,000 $12,717,000 $12,151,000
2016

$9,100,000 $2,000,000 $2,717,000 $13,817,000 $7,434,000
2017

$10,000,000 0 $2,717,000 $12,717,000 $2,717,000
2018

UFA


Total guaranteed money from the original $25.5Mil figure already paid out to Carr is: $20,849,000, with only about $4,650,00 still being owed out to him from the original guarantee. The 2017 season is a team option that can be voided, and I'm pretty sure that it will.

So as you can see, they would still owe Carr the remaining balance from his original guaranteed money if they cut him, and he would then also count against the cap in dead money going forward, specifically approx. $7.5Mil in 2016, and about $2,7Mil in 2017.

 

[jarntt]

Well, that last part below all of what you pasted isn't correct either. We don't owe him any money we only need to account for the unallocated amounts against our cap. Also, the way you listed it is not how it works if he is cut. There wouldn't be a 2017 cap hit. If he is cut pre 6/1 we take a $12.2M hit in 2015. If it's post 6/1 it is splitt between 2015 ($4.7M) and 2016 ($7.4M).

 

[PDay8810]

Scattershooting while wondering who loved to use the term "Fanboy" on the board ?





With Apologies to the Great Mr. Sherrod

The absolute great Blackie Sherrod!

Colors....you remain one of... if not the smartest person in the room.

 

[Greg]

Well, that last part below all of what you pasted isn't correct either. We don't owe him any money we only need to account for the unallocated amounts against our cap. Also, the way you listed it is not how it works if he is cut. There wouldn't be a 2017 cap hit. If he is cut pre 6/1 we take a $12.2M hit in 2015. If it's post 6/1 it is splitt between 2015 ($4.7M) and 2016 ($7.4M).

Obviously I was referencing a post 6/1 cut to save them $8Mil against the cap this year.

Well, that last part below all of what you pasted isn't correct either. We don't owe him any money we only need to account for the unallocated amounts against our cap. Also, the way you listed it is not how it works if he is cut. There wouldn't be a 2017 cap hit. If he is cut pre 6/1 we take a $12.2M hit in 2015. If it's post 6/1 it is splitt between 2015 ($4.7M) and 2016 ($7.4M).

"We don't owe him any money we only need to account for the unallocated amounts against our cap"

You are absolutely right. He is not owed any more guaranteed money. That figure I posted that was owed to him if cut post 6/1, approx. $4.7Mil, has to be accounted for on books in 2015. I was able to confirm that Carr has already received all of his guaranteed money, and I was confusing unpaid cash with allocated funds as you quickly pointed out here to another poster...


There wouldn't be a 2017 cap hit.

Again, you're right here also. Only the $7.4Mil in dead money would be held against the cap for 2016 if he becomes a post 6/1 cut.

So then, accounting for the unallocated $4.7Mil on their 2015 books, and the $7.4Mil in dead money for 2016, would be the team's only hits.


If it's post 6/1 it is split between 2015 ($4.7M) and 2016 ($7.4M)

Yup.


From Todd Archer: 6/14/14

@toddarcher: He is guaranteed $1 million this year now that he has been on the roster the first day of the league year. That's the last of the guaranteed money. Yes, he will be gone if he doesn't play well this season. If the Cowboys were to cut him in 2015, they would save only roughly $550,000. If they made him a June 1 cut, then it would free up $8 million in space in 2015, but Carr would count $7.4 million against the cap in 2016. To me, it would be better to not spread the hit over two years even though there wouldn't be much savings.