CB Trae Waynes

[UK Cowboy]

AP would strictly be a place holder for one year, if he were somehow an option for Dallas, and Murray leaves in FA. We could still draft a RB in the mid rounds to groom for next year. Cut Randle while we are at it -- don't need characters like him around

I'm all for cutting Randle. He's talented, but Dunbar and Williams are decent backups

 

[jarntt]

If it were me, and it's not, I would only be interested in AP for 1 year approx. 5 mil. Other than that, I would be looking to get younger at the position in the event Murray leaves in FA.

OK...I've been totally against wanting AP here and totally against the dea that there is even a 5% chance that he may end up here since these discussions started, but IF Murray goes elsewhere and AP would sign that deal you listed above I'll be the first to say I'd do it...BUT, it still isn't happeneing...Murray will be here and if he isn't his replacement won't be AP and AP isn't signing a deal like that...all IMO of course...

 

[jctoo]

OK...I've been totally against wanting AP here and totally against the dea that there is even a 5% chance that he may end up here since these discussions started, but IF Murray goes elsewhere and AP would sign that deal you listed above I'll be the first to say I'd do it...BUT, it still isn't happeneing...Murray will be here and if he isn't his replacement won't be AP and AP isn't signing a deal like that...all IMO of course...

I don't believe there's any chance AP will wind up anywhere but with the Vikings this year, so I'm of the ilk that believes all this discussion is nothing more than the media gone wild trying to create drama. But it is just mho.

 

[jarntt]

I agree that he will likely be a Viking this year and that was one of my main points all along.

 

[Greg]

I don't believe there's any chance AP will wind up anywhere but with the Vikings this year, so I'm of the ilk that believes all this discussion is nothing more than the media gone wild trying to create drama. But it is just mho.

I think there is a decent chance that AP leaves the Vikes this season. AP really doesn't have that much financial stability in Minny after this season. He would look silly now to try and restructure his deal after all he and his agent has said about wanting to leave, and he could be cut next year without the Vikes absorbing any cap hit. Then what?? Good luck trying to get paid at 31 years of age as a RB in this league just coming off a season with a rebuilding franchise and an inexperienced raw QB. He just has to look at the big picture here as well and his future with that team, and not just his 2015 salary number. Does he want to play for a contender on the rise in his home state to finish out his career, or is it all just about getting a paid for one season?

I am also hesitant about giving AP any deal more then two years with a 3rd year team option, but you have to remember he didn't play last season, or barely at all, and could possibly put up some monster numbers behind this OL in Dallas (with performance bonus escalators and numbers of carries built into his contract to make sure he's available, would be smart). If I were AP who would I want to "run" or get behind? The Vikes rebuilding franchise with an inexperience QB for one season, or with the 'Boy's OL (considered one of the best in the league) and Tony Romo, to open up some huge running lanes for him>? I believe that AP is not just your average RB and still has at least two more good seasons left in him. I simply trust AP running behind this OL, then some unproven 2nd or 3rd round still wet-behind-the-ears rookie RB just coming out of college. Sometimes it's not just as simple as striking gold twice for a RB in the mid rounds as so many of you believe and subscribe to here.

I can also see AP as an insurance clause for the loss of Murray that is a proven runner with rested legs, and not just an admittedly over-used RB (see Jerry Jones) just coming off a career season with over 500 carries and a fresh new mega-contract in his hand with guaranteed money. Don't get me wrong, I like Murray, but his injury history along with his fumble-itous problem, not to mention this team's past history of RBs getting paid after big seasons and then disappearing, has me a little worried. Then you'll have a situation where you've retained Murray but don't have him for much of the season because of another injury, and you didn't draft a RB replacement high enough to replace him because you though you were ok there if you've just re-signed Murray. Or even worse, you did draft his replacement but he turns out to be a bust and now you have no Murray (injured) and no capable back up after cutting Randle. Let's not just all pretend here that these scenarios are not a possibility either. I don't how anyone would think that obtaining AP for a couple seasons would be "going backwards" with what he brings to the table. If they could get him for $6M or less a season with a signing bonus for two seasons and a 3rd year team option, if Murray walks and the Vikes release AP (team is just posturing for a trade and deal restructure now imo), the cap hit would not kill this team. They would also have more confidence in the status of their run game going forward which is why they are letting Murray test the FA waters to begin with, because of their durability concerns.

 

[PDay8810]

After the success Dallas had............I can't see any of that and consider it a pipedream

 

[Greg]

After the success Dallas had............I can't see any of that and consider it a pipedream

Please explain? Fact: Team is allowing that success to hit FA and he may not be back. Fact: There is no guarantee that any 2nd or 3rd round RB will come in here and put up the kind of numbers that Murray did in his 4th year. Fact: Murray has an injury history and handing out big contract extensions to players coming off strong seasons has bitten them in the ass before. Fact: AP is being considered an option in Dallas if released as he and Jerry has a strong relationship and he wants to return to Texas to finish his career.

Now will it happen? Who knows, but let's not try and act like we already know. If he does stay in Minny and Murray walks, what is your answer? Randle??...a complete unknown 3rd round rookie RB???

Good luck with that continued success.

 

[jarntt]

"Good luck trying to get paid at 31 years of age as a RB in this league just coming off a season with a rebuilding franchise and an inexperienced raw QB."

It's not like he is in a better position to secure a big contract only one year younger and coming off of the season and issues that he is now.

 

[Greg]

Correction: I meant that Murray had over 400 carries including preseason games last season, not 500 (typo). That is still a lot carries.


If Federal Judge Doty’s order stands, it would serve as a significant legal victory for Peterson, who could now seek repayment of the $4.1 million in salary he lost while suspended plus other damages. The victory is arguably even more significant for the NFLPA, which gains a favorable legal precedent on the limits of Goodell’s ability to suspend players. The NFL has since appealed the decision and will leave AP on the Commissioner's exemption list (no surprise here). Remember, Peterson’s wrongful conduct occurred before the New Policy took effect. Going forward players accused of domestic violence will have done so with the New Policy clearly in effect. That is why the judge overturned the arbitrator to begin with.

On Sept. 17, 2014, the NFL placed Peterson on the Exempt List, where he was paid but barred from playing, until November when he pleaded no contest to reckless assault. Following Peterson’s plea, the NFL suspended Peterson (without pay) until at least April 15, 2015. If the NFL loses their appeal and AP sues the league for lost wages and damages, doesn't that also come into play here concerning AP's status with Vikes and any compensation/salary going forward? Just can't see this simply as a matter of the Vikes holding all the cards here and wanting AP back at any and all costs. Lots of bad blood between these two.

 

[PDay8810]

Please explain? Fact: Team is allowing that success to hit FA and he may not be back. Fact: There is no guarantee that any 2nd or 3rd round RB will come in here and put up the kind of numbers that Murray did in his 4th year. Fact: Murray has an injury history and handing out big contract extensions to players coming off strong seasons has bitten them in the ass before. Fact: AP is being considered an option in Dallas if released as he and Jerry has a strong relationship and he wants to return to Texas to finish his career.

Now will it happen? Who knows, but let's not try and act like we already know. If he does stay in Minny and Murray walks, what is your answer? Randle??...a complete unknown 3rd round rookie RB???

Good luck with that continued success.

What continued success?

"Please explain?"
well....I've said a few times that the culture in Dallas has been changed. The mindset, direction and plan has changed dramatically. The recent additions and drafts kinda say as much and I'll let you determine if it's a "fact" or not. Plug & play Murray for AP for this team is a huge step backwards


Now...lets assume AP is released. Where is the logic in letting Murray walk for a couple of million to basically sign AP for the same money? I'm sorry but AP's representation is doing a great disservice if they bring him to Dallas on the short term money you're thinking. I don't think AP is that hell bent on playing in Texas to sacrifice millions for no state income tax. That's a pipedream or at the very least a whole lotta assumptions on AP's camp....and what, for a fact that he and jerry have a strong relationship? God help this fan base if bad jerry emerges after ONE good season of doing things the right way.

Dallas has said on more than one occasion they want football players who LOVE playing the game of football. Lee, Fredrick, Martin, Hitchins, Murray, ect. I see a pattern. AP is great and all but I don't see that make-up and I sure don't see a Texas discount of massive proportions . I've been wrong on occasion, perhaps AP snaps a star on his helmet next year. I just thinking the Dallas organization doesn't see AP as the missing link to football glory anymore than MM being drafted by Philly would be. I hope Philly is that stupid and I prefer Dallas not be. Just my opinion.

 

[Greg]

What continued success?

"Please explain?"
well....I've said a few times that the culture in Dallas has been changed. The mindset, direction and plan has changed dramatically. The recent additions and drafts kinda say as much and I'll let you determine if it's a "fact" or not. Plug & play Murray for AP for this team is a huge step backwards


Now...lets assume AP is released. Where is the logic in letting Murray walk for a couple of million to basically sign AP for the same money? I'm sorry but AP's representation is doing a great disservice if they bring him to Dallas on the short term money you're thinking. I don't think AP is that hell bent on playing in Texas to sacrifice millions for no state income tax. That's a pipedream or at the very least a whole lotta assumptions on AP's camp....and what, for a fact that he and jerry have a strong relationship? God help this fan base if bad jerry emerges after ONE good season of doing things the right way.

Dallas has said on more than one occasion they want football players who LOVE playing the game of football. Lee, Fredrick, Martin, Hitchins, Murray, ect. I see a pattern. AP is great and all but I don't see that make-up and I sure don't see a Texas discount of massive proportions . I've been wrong on occasion, perhaps AP snaps a star on his helmet next year. I just thinking the Dallas organization doesn't see AP as the missing link to football glory anymore than MM being drafted by Philly would be. I hope Philly is that stupid and I prefer Dallas not be. Just my opinion.

"Where is the logic in letting Murray walk for a couple of million to basically sign AP for the same money?"

AP is a better back for one thing then Murray, and he would be another toy for Jerry to play with in his palace. The increase in revenue and advertising dollars alone would justify the move as well. To even compare Murray to AP is almost laughable. Jerry is still a crafty businessman that loves to make a splash when he can. Further, Murray has obviously not convinced this team that he is dependable when it comes to staying healthy. I saw a different back once Murray broke his hand towards the end of the season. Did not play with the same aggressiveness obviously because of the injury. That still is a legitimate concern for them, not to mention his well documented fumbling problem. I think you are giving Murray way too much credit here as well. The OL, Romo, Dez, all had a role in opening up running lanes for Murray. I also think that Jerry believes Murray's inability to stay healthy is THE main reason for not paying him more and allowing him to hit FA. You pay AP and bring in more revenue stream and excitement to the team, versus paying a guy with problems staying healthy after coming off a 400+ carries season in a contract year (for one that has way less mileage from the season before). So do I think that Jerry believes he can get the same, if not more, bang for his buck by paying AP instead of Murray and letting him walk, behind his first round OL? Absolutely. Besides, AP can make up what he pays in state taxes simply by playing for the Cowboys and bringing back some of his endorsements deals. Not a game changer imo.


"AP is great and all but I don't see that make-up and I sure don't see a Texas discount of massive proportions." "I just thinking the Dallas organization doesn't see AP as the missing link to football glory anymore."


We'll see where this all goes. Like I posted earlier here, I don't see any "massive" discount needed here by AP making $13 Mil in 2015 if he stays with the Vikes. They can simply cut him next season without taking any salary cap hit at all (and back to back $15M cap hits for a 30/31 yr old RB is just poor business decisions being made by a franchise not on the cusp of playing in any SB). If you are AP, you can't simply just shrug that off with so much bad blood there between them now either. Could AP take a pay cut in half to play somewhere else and leave his current situation, believing that he could make up the money in Dallas with new endorsement deals and some creative cap management and a fresh start? Possibly. I don't see it as some impossible "pipe-dream" that's all.

 

[PDay8810]

AP is a better back for one thing then Murray,
That's the point....AP is not a difference maker in what we already had.

and he would be another toy for Jerry to play with in his palace.
who needs that? Jerry needs to sit in the back seat and let his coaches do their job...that remains the only positive about the current direction

The increase in revenue and advertising dollars alone would justify the move as well.
perhaps that made sense two years ago. AGAIN....there has been a culture change and I don't think for one minute that includes AP

To even compare Murray to AP is almost laughable.
Who compared and who implied one was better than the other...other than you.
No argument dude but you apparently don't read all that well. 1800 plus yards isn't anything to sneeze at. I think you discredit Murray to prove your desire for AP in Dallas. Sorry...that's a pipedream and far from the missing link to taking the next step.

Jerry is still a crafty businessman that loves to make a splash when he can.
Which has been the error of his ways and with some hope...HE LEARNED SOMTHING LAST YEAR!

Further, Murray has obviously not convinced this team that he is dependable when it comes to staying healthy.
People make this sound like a weakness in the individual. If people played this game awhile then they couldn't make such statements. Dallas slow played Murray for a logical reason and it had nothing to do with not being convinced. Read a paper....Dallas has done nothing but praise Murray for being a warrior that just wants to win football games. The exact kinda player they say they want a boat load of.

I saw a different back once Murray broke his hand towards the end of the season. Did not play with the same aggressiveness obviously because of the injury. That still is a legitimate concern for them, not to mention his well documented fumbling problem.
I'll give you the fumble issues. Dallas has already said the need more runner B to share a greater load going forward.

I think you are giving Murray way too much credit here as well.
LOL....Okay and I think exactly what I'm posting.

The OL, Romo, Dez, all had a role in opening up running lanes for Murray. I also think that Jerry believes Murray's inability to stay healthy is THE main reason for not paying him more and allowing him to hit FA.
Is it me giving Murray to much credit or is it you discrediting Murray to promote AP in Dallas?

You pay AP and bring in more revenue stream and excitement to the team, versus paying a guy with problems staying healthy after coming off a 400+ carries season in a contract year (for one that has way less mileage from the season before).
Yep...this is more you slamming Murray to promote AP

So do I think that Jerry believes he can get the same, if not more, bang for his buck by paying AP instead of Murray and letting him walk, behind his first round OL? Absolutely
So noted

 

[jarntt]

"Fact: Team is allowing that success to hit FA and he may not be back."

Who, Murray? That's not a fact at all. Free agency didn't start yet. Could get signed or tagged.


"Fact: There is no guarantee that any 2nd or 3rd round RB will come in here and put up the kind of numbers that Murray did in his 4th year."

Totally agree. Hate when people assume a draft pick is going to do what Murray does and that goes for 1st rounders too. That's a big reason why I think he stays.

"Fact: Murray has an injury history and handing out big contract extensions to players coming off strong seasons has bitten them in the ass before."

True but he made it through this year and was huge even into the playoffs.i don't get the coming off strong seasons comment. It's always a bit of a crapshoot, but it's better to give the contract off a good year than a bad one and it wasn't one good season for Murray. He's been great when healthy since day one here.

"Fact: AP is being considered an option in Dallas if released as he and Jerry has a strong relationship and he wants to return to Texas to finish his career."

How is this a fact? This is as much a rumor driven guess as anything I read on here. AP is going to go where the money is and with our cap situation that isn't likely us even if he is cut. Right now he is a Viking.


"Now will it happen? Who knows, but let's not try and act like we already know. If he does stay in Minny and Murray walks, what is your answer? Randle??...a complete unknown 3rd round rookie RB???"

If we let Murray go we are in trouble. I'd look at a guy like Ingram to lead a committee type situation and hope it works out. AP isn't the answer to our problem with or without Murray. All the issues with Murray are even bigger with AP. To me Murray is the better player for us.Going forward. He is younger and as much as we want to talk about the number of carries last year his body overall is very fresh and certainly much fresher than APs. How old would AP be at the end of whatever deal he gets? AP has had a huge knee injury so it's not like there is no concern there either. He is coming of a horrible season on and off the field and sure doesn't look the part of "the right kind of guy" for us. He also seems more interested in AP than anything else. That's not what we need. Murray is better in pass protection and in the passing game and that is huge when no other RB on our team can pass protect and if Romo goes down it doesn't matter who our RB is. We don't need another ego on this offense. So with or without Murray, AP is not the answer. He is going to be looking for HUGE dollars. Whatever team gives it to him will regret it before the contract is up even if year one looks like a great move.

 

[es4m11]

OK...I've been totally against wanting AP here and totally against the dea that there is even a 5% chance that he may end up here since these discussions started, but IF Murray goes elsewhere and AP would sign that deal you listed above I'll be the first to say I'd do it...BUT, it still isn't happeneing...Murray will be here and if he isn't his replacement won't be AP and AP isn't signing a deal like that...all IMO of course...

I don't think it's going to happen either. I'm really not all that interested in AP to Dallas, but if it would come at a favorable deal for Dallas, then yes I would be interested -- as a fan. But for anything other than one year at affordable money, I don't think AP is in the best interest of Dallas.

 

[R.J. MacReady]

The increase in revenue and advertising dollars alone would justify the move as well.

You may have a point there.

They could have Adrian Peterson with switch bobble day at the stadium. We will pack them in and make a killing.

 

[R.J. MacReady]

I'm all for giving Murray a contract a year or so before he starts his decline.

But you would just have to be a fool to pay an aging veteran in the middle of his decline with all the
baggage that is coming with him to boot.

 

[Greg]

I don't think it's going to happen either. I'm really not all that interested in AP to Dallas, but if it would come at a favorable deal for Dallas, then yes I would be interested -- as a fan. But for anything other than one year at affordable money, I don't think AP is in the best interest of Dallas.

That's all I'm really saying here. If he became available Jerry would DEFINITELY be interested according to past reports, and just for the pure veteran talent nature of AP IF they lose Murray to FA (versus any unknown mid-round RB rookie in this draft). I think that's a no-brainer, that's if certain posters here were capable of pulling Murray's panties out of their mouths for a minute. Professional football is a business and not just some fanboy club for players we do or don't like.

Obtaining a player of AP's pedigree is certainly worth entertaining for the next two seasons as any business man in the NFL would agree, and if he became available minus any draft picks forfeited and for the right price, he is certainly an option worth exploring.....especially to a team like Dallas on the cusp of making the SB in a Romo two year window with their OL.

But I digress, as this is not an AP thread. Sorry for taking it there.

 

[jarntt]

That's all I'm really saying here. If he became available Jerry would DEFINITELY be interested according to past reports, and just for the pure veteran talent nature of AP IF they lose Murray to FA (versus any unknown mid-round RB rookie in this draft). I think that's a no-brainer, that's if certain posters here were capable of pulling Murray's panties out of their mouths for a minute. Professional football is a business and not just some fanboy club for players we do or don't like.

Obtaining a player of AP's pedigree is certainly worth entertaining for the next two seasons as any business man in the NFL would agree, and if he became available minus any draft picks forfeited and for the right price, he is certainly an option worth exploring.....especially to a team like Dallas on the cusp of making the SB in a Romo two year window with their OL.

But I digress, as this is not an AP thread. Sorry for taking it there.

After only 7 posts huh? Obviously you've been here before. What other name are we blessed to know you by?

 

[PDay8810]

After only 7 posts huh? Obviously you've been here before. What other name are we blessed to know you by?

Funny....this guy did bring an edge to the conversation the moment his opinion was somewhat challenged

 

[jarntt]

I like the way the board has been lately. Hopefully we can make it even better and not fall backwards to where it was...