Bud Dupree suspension for hit on Matt Moore?

[ATL96Steeler]

I'm not going to get into an argument over this but I felt it was late and needlessly aggressive. Helmet to the chops.

And the hit on Nelson in the ribs was actually even more suspendable to my eye. A definite lead with head. And Nelson doesn't seem likely to be playing next week.

It was a bang-bang play...not late, barely had released the ball. Too high and led with helmet...deserves the fine he will be getting.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

@ATL96Steeler

And in MA if you puch someone in the face it's misdemeanor battery, but if you kick them in the face while wearing shoes, it's felony battery. WTF is the difference?

Wow...more violent?...idk

 

[NEPatsfan]

Wow...more violent?...idk

Idk either, just always thought it was dumb since both can cause similar harm.

 

[cdumler7]

If he got suspended for that then as some others have said the NFL is opening up a very big can of worms that they don't want to do. Especially when you consider this is the playoffs where they let a little more physicality go.

 

[Calm]

If he got suspended for that then as some others have said the NFL is opening up a very big can of worms that they don't want to do. Especially when you consider this is the playoffs where they let a little more physicality go.

I'm not arguing he should be suspended. But those that want to pretend this was a legal play and he shouldn't have been flagged are trolling, ignorant, or both.

 

[cdumler7]

I'm not arguing he should be suspended. But those that want to pretend this was a legal play and he shouldn't have been flagged are trolling, ignorant, or both.

I guess for me I would say it is borderline almost legal. We have seen RB's have that same helmet to helmet hit and not get a flag. And if a QB is considered a runner when they get out of the pocket then I don't see how you can say it is a clear flag. The NFL will work to protect QB's so I understand why they threw the flag. I'm just saying RB's would not have gotten that same call.

 

[Calm]

I guess for me I would say it is borderline almost legal. We have seen RB's have that same helmet to helmet hit and not get a flag. And if a QB is considered a runner when they get out of the pocket then I don't see how you can say it is a clear flag. The NFL will work to protect QB's so I understand why they threw the flag. I'm just saying RB's would not have gotten that same call.

Rule 12, Article 9, paragraph (g) quoted in my earlier posts is how. An no, a RB would not have gotten that call, but as a passer, even out of the pocket, the rule says he still gets protection for hits to the head and neck.

 

[Droopdog51]

Maybe I just remember football before the QB's wore skirts, but I don't see what all the fuss is about. I didn't have a problem with the flag being thrown for roughness, but don't think it deserves a fine or suspension.

It also looks like he is trying to lead with his shoulder and not his head.

The head is in front and the force of the contact is with the shoulder. Moore was the one moving from right to left in the picture. Was there helmet to helmet contact? Yes, but it looks more incidental than deliberate.

Does Cam Newton or Ben Roethsliberger get that call?

 

[TP76]

If he got suspended for that then as some others have said the NFL is opening up a very big can of worms that they don't want to do. Especially when you consider this is the playoffs where they let a little more physicality go.

Inconsistent application/enforcement of the rules which has been common with the NFL... Cam Newton probably gets that call now (that he has complained), but earlier this year he got hit and over and over to the head on rollouts/runs similar to Moore's.

Too much penalizing of the outcome instead of the act.

You want to protect QBs, but at what cost? So they can run up and down the field on your defense with no repercussions?

 

[MISKO]

Does Cam Newton or Ben Roethsliberger get that call?

hell no both of them are harder to knock out

 

[cdumler7]

Inconsistent application/enforcement of the rules which has been common with the NFL... Cam Newton probably gets that call now (that he has complained), but earlier this year he got hit and over and over to the head on rollouts/runs similar to Moore's.

Too much penalizing of the outcome instead of the act.

You want to protect QBs, but at what cost? So they can run up and down the field on your defense with no repercussions?

Exactly. This is still the game of football and hard hits are going to be a part of that and even if you lead with your shoulder your head is still attached to that and will be leaning forward. Now yeah I'm fine with the play being flagged. I just wish there was a way to better make these calls consistent. I keep saying and will continue to say that any kind of personal foul or penalty that is over 10 yards should be reviewable. We have seen players just hit so hard the head snaps forward but they didn't actually hit the helmet. The look of it though makes an official think something happened. So they error on the side of caution and throw a flag. To me that should be reviewable and overturned for just making a great football hit. Those 15 yard or more penalties are huge in the game of football.

 

[MHSL82]

I guess for me I would say it is borderline almost legal. We have seen RB's have that same helmet to helmet hit and not get a flag. And if a QB is considered a runner when they get out of the pocket then I don't see how you can say it is a clear flag. The NFL will work to protect QB's so I understand why they threw the flag. I'm just saying RB's would not have gotten that same call.

I know this reeks of my sensibilities. I SHOULD love big hits but I don't. I KNOW others do like them. But, to me, just being honest, no one is saying that it was a late hit or that QBs can't be tackled hard. I don't like how RBs can get hit head to head, but I think it's more unavoidable in their type of plays. Not saying that QBs can be avoided with ease, but more often they are different and contact should be incidental, not a "well, you're a runner so I can hit you there."

I know incidental contact is subjective and the game is fast so it is hard to judge and enforce, but I never liked the runner distinction except as it applies to contextual review of whether someone launched or should have tried something different - but I RESIGN here, because I don't know what that something different is, as they change things and once they say go low, knees are a problem, go high and there's a problem, go to the middle and that's ineffective to tackle.

Applied to this case, and I know the NFL shouldn't really go case by case when they are so inconsistent, I think he could have gone lower, even if Moore did lower his body, too. The penalty is fine, as it was an actual helmet hit - this argument over the rules, bleh, he hit him and it wasn't a close game. I know that can't be applied going forward (penalty if not a close game), but ehh. Penalty, yes. Fine, I don't care. Suspension, no, though I hate that they do it because they know a suspension is not a factor.

 

[cdumler7]

I know this reeks of my sensibilities. I SHOULD love big hits but I don't. I KNOW others do like them. But, to me, just being honest, no one is saying that it was a late hit or that QBs can't be tackled hard. I don't like how RBs can get hit head to head, but I think it's more unavoidable in their type of plays. Not saying that QBs can be avoided with ease, but more often they are different and contact should be incidental, not a "well, you're a runner so I can hit you there."

I know incidental contact is subjective and the game is fast so it is hard to judge and enforce, but I never liked the runner distinction except as it applies to contextual review of whether someone launched or should have tried something different - but I RESIGN here, because I don't know what that something different is, as they change things and once they say go low, knees are a problem, go high and there's a problem, go to the middle and that's ineffective to tackle.

Applied to this case, and I know the NFL shouldn't really go case by case when they are so inconsistent, I think he could have gone lower, even if Moore did lower his body, too. The penalty is fine, as it was an actual helmet hit - this argument over the rules, bleh, he hit him and it wasn't a close game. I know that can't be applied going forward (penalty if not a close game), but ehh. Penalty, yes. Fine, I don't care. Suspension, no, though I hate that they do it because they know a suspension is not a factor.

I get what you are saying. I'm not wanting these guys to be vegetables when they leave the NFL. So protections need to be put into place. The problem is with this type of sport you just cannot completely eliminate the big hit. And really most fans (myself included) want that to be a part of the game. I would hate to be a defender in the NFL. You go high and you get fined. You go low and well fans call you dirty for trying to injure a player on their team. As you said going middle isn't always effective against some of these players today where you just bounce off them. So you are in a way screwed no matter where you hit them.

I don't know what the answer is but definitely suspension shouldn't even be a thought with this kind of hit. WE haven't seen Dupree have helmet to helmet hits being an issue on a regular basis. It was quick play that just happens throughout the course of a game. And especially with this being the playoffs taking such a player away for the next game for a hit that we see every week would just be a bad precedent to set.

 

[MHSL82]

I get what you are saying. I'm not wanting these guys to be vegetables when they leave the NFL. So protections need to be put into place. The problem is with this type of sport you just cannot completely eliminate the big hit. And really most fans (myself included) want that to be a part of the game. I would hate to be a defender in the NFL. You go high and you get fined. You go low and well fans call you dirty for trying to injure a player on their team. As you said going middle isn't always effective against some of these players today where you just bounce off them. So you are in a way screwed no matter where you hit them.

I don't know what the answer is but definitely suspension shouldn't even be a thought with this kind of hit. WE haven't seen Dupree have helmet to helmet hits being an issue on a regular basis. It was quick play that just happens throughout the course of a game. And especially with this being the playoffs taking such a player away for the next game for a hit that we see every week would just be a bad precedent to set.

I have to admit, I'm a Niners and Utes fan, so while the Chiefs are an interest to me with Smith as their QB, I really don't want a cheap shot to knock him out. I'm not saying the Steelers are a dirty team, just that these things aren't new territory for them. Every teams has these (Berry hits HARD) but the Steelers have a rep, accurate or not.

So while I want the Chiefs to win for his sake, late hits or cheap shots or hard hits are a bigger issue for me. I want him to swim for sure, but sink or swim on his own, not sink because of being hit. It's not that I didn't not (double negative) want Kaepernick to be knocked out, it's just that we weren't in the playoffs.

 

[R.J. MacReady]

for a hit that we see every week would just be a bad precedent to set.

You do not see hits on a QB like this every week. You think it's outrageous to suspended him for this? Fine..I don't have a problem with that.

But lets not distort the facts here. That was one of the worst hits on a QB this year.

 

[R.J. MacReady]

Maybe I just remember football before the QB's wore skirts, but I don't see what all the fuss is about. I didn't have a problem with the flag being thrown for roughness, but don't think it deserves a fine or suspension.

It also looks like he is trying to lead with his shoulder and not his head.

The head is in front and the force of the contact is with the shoulder. Moore was the one moving from right to left in the picture. Was there helmet to helmet contact? Yes, but it looks more incidental than deliberate.

Does Cam Newton or Ben Roethsliberger get that call?

It's kinda odd that you did not go with a photo several frames before that when making your case.

 

[Droopdog51]

It's kinda odd that you did not go with a photo several frames before that when making your case.

How about the entire clip.....

It sure looks like he is leading with his shoulder.

 

[Calm]

It's kinda odd that you did not go with a photo several frames before that when making your case.

Agreed

 

[Calm]

How about the entire clip.....

It sure looks like he is leading with his shoulder.

The entire clip that he included in the OP?

 

[Droopdog51]

Agreed

View attachment 153522

Right. The initial contact is with the shoulder. Dupree's head is in front of the tackle, where it should be. He does lower his head in order to not make it a helmet to helmet hit.

The hit was hard but definitely not dirty.

The entire clip that he included in the OP?

Yep, same clip. Again it looks to me like he is leading with his shoulder.