Bob Knights Last Game

[UKnation87]

Too funny. Wisconsin has an NCAA title and three consensus pre-tourney titles. Bo Ryan has four NCAA titles.
So which one am I in, A or B? I'm confused.

Bo Ryan does not have any D1 National Titles... I'm talking big boy basketball here my man. So, you would clearly fall into "B".

 

[jctoo]

Bo Ryan has more national championships than Bob Knight. And while one obviously has to discount them because they are D3, Knight's first two titles also have to be somewhat discounted because they were before college basketball was big-time. He won his big recruits before cable and before the Magic-Bird explosion.

Let's compare three hypothetical coaches:
A: 356-124, 172-64 (Conf.), 24 NCAA Tourney Wins, 2 Final Fours
B: 282-158, 135-97 (Conf.), 7 NCAA Tourney Wins, 0 Final Fours
C: 346-145, 161-79 (Conf.), 30 NCAA Tourney Wins, 4 Final Fours

As I'm sure you surmised, A is Bo Ryan's 14 Wisconsin years. B is Bob Knight's last 14 years. C is Tom Izzo's 14 years. I think it makes it pretty clear. Knight accomplished a lot in the olden days. When thrust into modern times, he just wasn't that good. The four coaches in the Final Four are.

7 of those last 14 were with Texas Tech ... NEVER known as an elite college BB squad

 

[Hornsstampede2.0]

Are we seriously comparing Bo Ryan to Bobby Knight?

Put aside any personal feelings to Knights fiery personality, the comparison is not even close.

Bobby Knight is a larger than life figure in the sport. He is considered one of the all time greats.

Bo Ryan's name will be completely forgotten once he retires....barring a title run soon...

 

[Smart]

Are we seriously comparing Bo Ryan to Bobby Knight?

Put aside any personal feelings to Knights fiery personality, the comparison is not even close.

Bobby Knight is a larger than life figure in the sport. He is considered one of the all time greats.

Bo Ryan's name will be completely forgotten once he retires....barring a title run soon...

Citing to fame isn't an argument.

At the end of the day, Bo Ryan has better a B1G winning percentage at a traditional bottomfeeder than Knight did at a blueblood in the heart of a basketball state. Bo did it in a more competitive era.

I'm sure Knight fans think 3 national championships is the be-all, end-all. But again, is it really harder to win 3 titles in the 1970s and 1980s at Indiana (where scholarships lure elite talent) than four at Platteville (where you have no scholarships and are relying on local boys)? If Bo were at Indiana in the 1970s and 1980s, with inside recruitment tracks to All-Americans, how would he have done? Could you imagine Bo with 6 or 7 recruits the caliber of Dekker, with 5 or 6 under-the-radar guys to mold into Frank? Bo with Larry Bird?

Knight was actually offered the Wisconsin job in 1970. And as a Wisconsin fan, if you could allow me to go back and take Knight, I sure as hell wouldn't. All signs say he wouldn't have done that well here, and it would jeopardize this road which has led us to Bo.

 

[BUD]

Citing to fame isn't an argument.

At the end of the day, Bo Ryan has better a B1G winning percentage at a traditional bottomfeeder than Knight did at a blueblood in the heart of a basketball state. Bo did it in a more competitive era.

I'm sure Knight fans think 3 national championships is the be-all, end-all. But again, is it really harder to win 3 titles in the 1970s and 1980s at Indiana (where scholarships lure elite talent) than four at Platteville (where you have no scholarships and are relying on local boys)? If Bo were at Indiana in the 1970s and 1980s, with inside recruitment tracks to All-Americans, how would he have done? Could you imagine Bo with 6 or 7 recruits the caliber of Dekker, with 5 or 6 under-the-radar guys to mold into Frank? Bo with Larry Bird?

Knight was actually offered the Wisconsin job in 1970. And as a Wisconsin fan, if you could allow me to go back and take Knight, I sure as hell wouldn't. All signs say he wouldn't have done that well here, and it would jeopardize this road which has led us to Bo.[/QUOTE/]

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[pennstatenut]

Citing to fame isn't an argument.

At the end of the day, Bo Ryan has better a B1G winning percentage at a traditional bottomfeeder than Knight did at a blueblood in the heart of a basketball state. Bo did it in a more competitive era.

I'm sure Knight fans think 3 national championships is the be-all, end-all. But again, is it really harder to win 3 titles in the 1970s and 1980s at Indiana (where scholarships lure elite talent) than four at Platteville (where you have no scholarships and are relying on local boys)? If Bo were at Indiana in the 1970s and 1980s, with inside recruitment tracks to All-Americans, how would he have done? Could you imagine Bo with 6 or 7 recruits the caliber of Dekker, with 5 or 6 under-the-radar guys to mold into Frank? Bo with Larry Bird?

Knight was actually offered the Wisconsin job in 1970. And as a Wisconsin fan, if you could allow me to go back and take Knight, I sure as hell wouldn't. All signs say he wouldn't have done that well here, and it would jeopardize this road which has led us to Bo.

You're so full of shit your eyes are brown.

 

[douggie]

Citing to fame isn't an argument.

At the end of the day, Bo Ryan has better a B1G winning percentage at a traditional bottomfeeder than Knight did at a blueblood in the heart of a basketball state. Bo did it in a more competitive era.

I'm sure Knight fans think 3 national championships is the be-all, end-all. But again, is it really harder to win 3 titles in the 1970s and 1980s at Indiana (where scholarships lure elite talent) than four at Platteville (where you have no scholarships and are relying on local boys)? If Bo were at Indiana in the 1970s and 1980s, with inside recruitment tracks to All-Americans, how would he have done? Could you imagine Bo with 6 or 7 recruits the caliber of Dekker, with 5 or 6 under-the-radar guys to mold into Frank? Bo with Larry Bird?

Knight was actually offered the Wisconsin job in 1970. And as a Wisconsin fan, if you could allow me to go back and take Knight, I sure as hell wouldn't. All signs say he wouldn't have done that well here, and it would jeopardize this road which has led us to Bo.

Dude, there is the Bo Ryan legacy level of coaching and then there's the Bobby Knight 902 wins and 3 NCAA Titles legacy level of coaching and they aren't in the same Galaxy.

 

[Smart]

Dude, there is the Bo Ryan legacy level of coaching and then there's the Bobby Knight 902 wins and 3 NCAA Titles legacy level of coaching and they aren't in the same Galaxy.

Again, I don't get the point of this post. I clearly explained why I think Bo is a better coach. You don't address any of my arguments, and aren't even performing the same debate. I think Knight will have a bigger "legacy" because his D1 titles get a lot more attention than Bo's D3 titles. But does that make him a better coach?

Bo actually has more than 3 NCAA Titles. And it is entirely conceivable that Bo will win more than 902 games (although I would be surprised if he coached long enough to do it). Bo has a higher winning percentage. And in the years where Bo and Knight were both active, Bo was much better. He did it at traditional bottomfeeders unlike Knight.

So please, tell me why Knight's titles in 1976 and 1981 in Indiana make him a better coach than Bo's at Platteville. I've given clear reasons why they weren't, namely that mens basketball at the time was not near as popular, so recruits and national attention went towards a few blue bloods. It was a (less extreme) version of the women's landscape today.

But I can't for the life of me understand how a guy with a 60% conference record at a blue blood in the modern era is a better coach than a guy with a 72% conference record at the same conference's bottom feeder. I just don't get it.

 

[douggie]

Again, I don't get the point of this post. I clearly explained why I think Bo is a better coach. You don't address any of my arguments, and aren't even performing the same debate. I think Knight will have a bigger "legacy" because his D1 titles get a lot more attention than Bo's D3 titles. But does that make him a better coach?

Bo actually has more than 3 NCAA Titles. And it is entirely conceivable that Bo will win more than 902 games (although I would be surprised if he coached long enough to do it). Bo has a higher winning percentage. And in the years where Bo and Knight were both active, Bo was much better. He did it at traditional bottomfeeders unlike Knight.

So please, tell me why Knight's titles in 1976 and 1981 in Indiana make him a better coach than Bo's at Platteville. I've given clear reasons why they weren't, namely that mens basketball at the time was not near as popular, so recruits and national attention went towards a few blue bloods. It was a (less extreme) version of the women's landscape today.

But I can't for the life of me understand how a guy with a 60% conference record at a blue blood in the modern era is a better coach than a guy with a 72% conference record at the same conference's bottom feeder. I just don't get it.

smart, nobody is saying Ryan isn't a fantastic coach but the competition in D1 is far more difficult than the other Divisions. And you are comparing apples to oranges. Does owning your own business pay well and earn you a great living? Sure, but it isn't like being Vice President at 3M or IBM.

Clearly D3 isn't the same competition as D1. I'll give you a guy that was unbelievable as records go. Clarence "Big House" Gaines went 828-447 at Winston-Salem State with eight CIAA Championships. He's in the HOF, coached Earl the Pearl Monroe, and is considered one of the greatest coaches of all time. But nobody, and I mean nobody outside of North Carolina, considers him a better coach than most ACC coaches like Lefty Driesell, Bones McKinney, Vic Bubas, or even Everett Case, all who never won a D1 National Title but had fantastic careers in D1. Knight has THREE and an undefeated season in D1 at Indiana. Is Ryan better than Al McGuire? Better than Frank McGuire? Better than Rollie Massimino? Better than Jim Valvano? Once he wins a D1 Title, then we can compare. Until that happens no way.