Big Sigh heard in Denver

[eaglesnut]

Point being I don't think Elway falls for the mirage of an "improved" Sanchez. Or a "competent" Ryan Fitzpatrick just Elway didn't believe in Tebow.

Ok, but my post above only talked about this season. Elway already drafted Lynch for the future.

 

[cdumler7]

Ok, but my post above only talked about this season. Elway already drafted Lynch for the future.

At this point who are the Broncos going to bring in though? I don't think there is a veteran out there within their price range that can come in and do more than that of Sanchez.

 

[eaglesnut]

At this point who are the Broncos going to bring in though? I don't think there is a veteran out there within their price range that can come in and do more than that of Sanchez.

They're screwed. Such a waste of one of Von Miller's prime years.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Like I said I am keeping a sliver of hope that Kubiak can revive another QB. Jake Plummer went from a high QB Rating while in AZ of 79.6 to 91.2 his first year in Denver with Kubiak.

John Elway before Kubiak only had 2 seasons with more than 19 touchdowns in a season. His last 4 seasons were with Kubiak as his coach and threw for 22 or more every single season. He also saw his highest QB Rating under Kubiak. Joe Flacco had one of his greatest seasons of his career under Kubiak as well jumping from a 73.1 QB Rating the year before to a 91.0 QB Rating the year with kubiak. He also saw his highest Touchdowns for a season under Kubiak. Matt Schaub became a top-10 QB under Kubiak having a QB Rating over 87.2 all but his final season with Kubiak. Since Kubiak has been gone he hasn't had a QB Rating over 76.

This is why I have a sliver of hope that Sanchez could see an uptick in his career with the Broncos compared to his time with Philly or the Jets.

That's great. I hear similar reports about Hue Jackson in CLE...here's my problem with that...if Kubiak was the OC I would feel better about him being able to rekindle Sanchez to a playoff caliber QB and the same thing with Jackson in CLE with RG3...as the HC I don't like it because you have to be more than a QB developer...imo Norv Turner never made it as a HC because he was grounded in the QB...reclamation projects take time to resusitate...the HC doesn't have that kind of time to devote to one player...if so, something else is falling thru the cracks that will lead to Ls.

We shall see...he's got a good team around him...maybe, but his history says he's not that guy and Elway moving up to secure a young QB tells me he knows he's not that guy either.

 

[Broncosr0k]

Maybe this is my red tinged glasses talking as a Chiefs fan, but I would tend to agree.

If it helps I dont see the broncos repeating without offensive improvement. Maybe not QB but at least need a strong consistent run game. But repeating in general is a tall task, even if your QB position is stable. I am hoping for the best and enjoying SB50 win.

They're screwed. Such a waste of one of Von Miller's prime years.

You mean 5 straight division wins, 2 SBs, 1 SB win is not enough? Von Miller will still have a great career. 1 year with Sanchez is not going to ruin it.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Kubiak's coaching career since 1994​

*QB coach
**OC
#HC
X-Established QB
XX-Established and presumptive HOF QB

I used QB's with 10 or more starts in order to attempt to try to tune out some of the more ridiculous noise like n=1 QB's, unless there's a benching, as much as I can in this very simplified look at Kubiak's tenure as a coach. If I missed something, feel free to let me know. I spent little to no time trying to remove noise related to age, roster, and there's just in general a lot of moving parts I am not going to spend days on. But here's just this quick little thing I conjured anyway for your amusement.

*XX1994

QB: Steve Young (Age 33)

Career Passer Rating: 101.4
1994: 112.8

Differential: +11.4

**XX1995

QB: John Elway (Age 35)

Career Passer Rating: 79.9
1995: 86.4
Differential: +6.5

**XX1996

QB: John Elway (Age 36)

Career: 79.9
1996: 89.2
Differential: +9.3

**XX1997

QB: John Elway (Age 37)

Career: 79.9
1997: 87.5
Differential: +7.6

**XX1998

QB: John Elway (Age 38)

Career: 79.9
1998: 93.0
Differential: +13.1

**1999

QB: Bob Griese (Age 24)

Career: 82.7
1998: 75.6
Differential: -7.1

**2000

QB: Bob Griese (Age 25)

Career: 82.7
2000: 102.9
Differential: +20.2

**2001

QB: Bob Griese (Age 26)

Career: 82.7
2001: 78.5
Differential: -4.2

**2002

QB: Bob Greise (Age 27)

Career: 82.7
2002: 85.6
Differential: +2.9

**2003

QB: Jake Plummer (Age 29)

Career: 75.6
2003: 91.6
Differential: +16

**2004

QB: Jake Plummer (Age 30)

Career 75.6
2004: 84.5
Differential: +9.1

**2005

QB: Jake Plummer (Age 31)

Career: 75.6
2005: 90.2
Differential: +14.6

#2006

QB: David Carr (Age 27)

Career: 74.9
2006: 82.1
Differential: +7.2

#2007

QB: Matt Schaub (Age 26)

Career: 89.1
2007: 87.2
Differential: -1.9

#2008

QB: Matt Schaub (Age 27)

Career: 89.1
2008: 92.7
Differential: +3.6

#2009

QB: Matt Schaub (Age 28)

Career: 89.1
2009: 98.6
Differential: +9.5

#2010

QB: Matt Schaub (Age 29)

Career: 89.1
2010: 92.0
Differential: +2.9

#2011

QB: Matt Schaub (Age 30)

Career: 89.1
2011: 98.6
Differential: +9.5

#2012

QB: Matt Schaub (Age 31)

Career: 89.1
2012: 90.1
Differential: +1

#2013

QB: Matt Schaub (Age 32)
Career: 89.1
2013: 73.0
Differential: -16.1

**X2014

QB: Joe Flacco (29)

Career: 84.1
2014: 91.0
Differential: +6.9

#XX2015 Broncos

No QB made 10 regular season starts.

Manning 9 starts:

Career: 96.5
2015:67.9
Differential: -28.6

Osweiler N=1​

 

[cdumler7]

They're screwed. Such a waste of one of Von Miller's prime years.

Well that is what people said when Manning showed this past year he was well past his prime and more of a liability than help to the team. Same thing they said when we had Tebow as our starter. Yet hey both years we made the playoffs and beat teams we were expected to get blown out by.

 

[cdumler7]

Kubiak's coaching career since 1994​

*QB coach
**OC
#HC
X-Established QB
XX-Established and presumptive HOF QB

I used QB's with 10 or more starts in order to attempt to try to tune out some of the more ridiculous noise like n=1 QB's, unless there's a benching, as much as I can in this very simplified look at Kubiak's tenure as a coach. If I missed something, feel free to let me know. I spent little to no time trying to remove noise related to age, roster, and there's just in general a lot of moving parts I am not going to spend days on. But here's just this quick little thing I conjured anyway for your amusement.

*XX1994

QB: Steve Young (Age 33)

Career Passer Rating: 101.4
1994: 112.8

Differential: +11.4

**XX1995

QB: John Elway (Age 35)

Career Passer Rating: 79.9
1995: 86.4
Differential: +6.5

**XX1996

QB: John Elway (Age 36)

Career: 79.9
1996: 89.2
Differential: +9.3

**XX1997

QB: John Elway (Age 37)

Career: 79.9
1997: 87.5
Differential: +7.6

**XX1998

QB: John Elway (Age 38)

Career: 79.9
1998: 93.0
Differential: +13.1

**1999

QB: Bob Griese (Age 24)

Career: 82.7
1998: 75.6
Differential: -7.1

**2000

QB: Bob Griese (Age 25)

Career: 82.7
2000: 102.9
Differential: +20.2

**2001

QB: Bob Griese (Age 26)

Career: 82.7
2001: 78.5
Differential: -4.2

**2002

QB: Bob Greise (Age 27)

Career: 82.7
2002: 85.6
Differential: +2.9

**2003

QB: Jake Plummer (Age 29)

Career: 75.6
2003: 91.6
Differential: +16

**2004

QB: Jake Plummer (Age 30)

Career 75.6
2004: 84.5
Differential: +9.1

**2005

QB: Jake Plummer (Age 31)

Career: 75.6
2005: 90.2
Differential: +14.6

#2006

QB: David Carr (Age 27)

Career: 74.9
2006: 82.1
Differential: +7.2

#2007

QB: Matt Schaub (Age 26)

Career: 89.1
2007: 87.2
Differential: -1.9

#2008

QB: Matt Schaub (Age 27)

Career: 89.1
2008: 92.7
Differential: +3.6

#2009

QB: Matt Schaub (Age 28)

Career: 89.1
2009: 98.6
Differential: +9.5

#2010

QB: Matt Schaub (Age 29)

Career: 89.1
2010: 92.0
Differential: +2.9

#2011

QB: Matt Schaub (Age 30)

Career: 89.1
2011: 98.6
Differential: +9.5

#2012

QB: Matt Schaub (Age 31)

Career: 89.1
2012: 90.1
Differential: +1

#2013

QB: Matt Schaub (Age 32)
Career: 89.1
2013: 73.0
Differential: -16.1

**X2014

QB: Joe Flacco (29)

Career: 84.1
2014: 91.0
Differential: +6.9

#XX2015 Broncos

No QB made 10 regular season starts.​

Thanks for this. Definitely shows for the most part most QB's see a nice uptick in their career QB Rating when paired with Kubiak. For the most part looks like about a 7-10 point increase on average. So with his QB Rating at 74.3 we could look at a season of around 80-84 for this upcoming season. Not great but not terrible either. Again Bronco fans are not expecting Sanchez to become a top-10 QB by any means. Being an average QB is something we would take for this upcoming season. That would be a huge increase over last year's QB play.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Thanks for this. Definitely shows for the most part most QB's see a nice uptick in their career QB Rating when paired with Kubiak. For the most part looks like about a 7-10 point increase on average. So with his QB Rating at 74.3 we could look at a season of around 80-84 for this upcoming season. Not great but not terrible either. Again Bronco fans are not expecting Sanchez to become a top-10 QB by any means. Being an average QB is something we would take for this upcoming season. That would be a huge increase over last year's QB play.

Yeah, I think it's fair to say Sanchez will do somewhat better than his career average. Problem is his true talent level is still pretty bad so a 8-10 point improvement gets you to around 28-30th of passer rating in the low 80's. Better, but still pretty bad. As for the data I presented, there's almost certainly a lot of noise, but I definitely find it hard to believe he's gotten entirely lucky with QB's for 10+ years.

 

[Gatorchip]

Which is difficult enough for Sanchez.

It's actually easier for him without an o-line.

 

[cdumler7]

Yeah, I think it's fair to say Sanchez will do somewhat better than his career average. Problem is his true talent level is still pretty bad so a 8-10 point improvement gets you to around 28-30th of passer rating in the low 80's. Better, but still pretty bad. As for the data I presented, there's almost certainly a lot of noise, but I definitely find it hard to believe he's gotten entirely lucky with QB's for 10+ years.

Well the other part of this equation to remember is that the Broncos have more than just Kubiak on the staff that are known for their work with QB's. They have Greg Knapp who was also a QB in the NFL and has been known for his great work with QB's. So they have 3 guys on staff with Elway, Kubiak, and Knapp all who have played the position and now two of them that have coached the position with great success. So yeah I do think that not only is Kubiak's system QB friendly but they do get some great coaching from the staff.

And you are right that even with an uptick in Sanchez's ability it still isn't great but my guess is the Broncos are much more focused on the run game improving over last year than anything else. That is the other part of this that people forget is that it wasn't just the QB's that struggled but it was the run game as well. They had a few good games later in the season but beyond that the run game was just as much a liability as that of the QB position. Kubiak is just about as well known for what he brings as a coach in the running game as that of the QB position.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I understand that you disagree. If you consider Fitzpatrick and Hoyer equals, you are certainly in the minority.

I'm in that minority too. The final game of the year was a strong indicator that he doesn't have the goods to deliver against playoff caliber teams...he didn't just have a bad game, he had a terrible game against BUF...you can write that off for a 25 y/o QB...not a 33 y/o that's never been more than a journeyman...not saying he can't play better than he did in that game, I'm sure he can, but he's at the ceiling imo.

 

[MileHigh64]

Kubiak's coaching career since 1994​

*QB coach
**OC
#HC
X-Established QB
XX-Established and presumptive HOF QB

I used QB's with 10 or more starts in order to attempt to try to tune out some of the more ridiculous noise like n=1 QB's, unless there's a benching, as much as I can in this very simplified look at Kubiak's tenure as a coach. If I missed something, feel free to let me know. I spent little to no time trying to remove noise related to age, roster, and there's just in general a lot of moving parts I am not going to spend days on. But here's just this quick little thing I conjured anyway for your amusement.

*XX1994

QB: Steve Young (Age 33)

Career Passer Rating: 101.4
1994: 112.8

Differential: +11.4

**XX1995

QB: John Elway (Age 35)

Career Passer Rating: 79.9
1995: 86.4
Differential: +6.5

**XX1996

QB: John Elway (Age 36)

Career: 79.9
1996: 89.2
Differential: +9.3

**XX1997

QB: John Elway (Age 37)

Career: 79.9
1997: 87.5
Differential: +7.6

**XX1998

QB: John Elway (Age 38)

Career: 79.9
1998: 93.0
Differential: +13.1

**1999

QB: Bob Griese (Age 24)

Career: 82.7
1998: 75.6
Differential: -7.1

**2000

QB: Bob Griese (Age 25)

Career: 82.7
2000: 102.9
Differential: +20.2

**2001

QB: Bob Griese (Age 26)

Career: 82.7
2001: 78.5
Differential: -4.2

**2002

QB: Bob Greise (Age 27)

Career: 82.7
2002: 85.6
Differential: +2.9

**2003

QB: Jake Plummer (Age 29)

Career: 75.6
2003: 91.6
Differential: +16

**2004

QB: Jake Plummer (Age 30)

Career 75.6
2004: 84.5
Differential: +9.1

**2005

QB: Jake Plummer (Age 31)

Career: 75.6
2005: 90.2
Differential: +14.6

#2006

QB: David Carr (Age 27)

Career: 74.9
2006: 82.1
Differential: +7.2

#2007

QB: Matt Schaub (Age 26)

Career: 89.1
2007: 87.2
Differential: -1.9

#2008

QB: Matt Schaub (Age 27)

Career: 89.1
2008: 92.7
Differential: +3.6

#2009

QB: Matt Schaub (Age 28)

Career: 89.1
2009: 98.6
Differential: +9.5

#2010

QB: Matt Schaub (Age 29)

Career: 89.1
2010: 92.0
Differential: +2.9

#2011

QB: Matt Schaub (Age 30)

Career: 89.1
2011: 98.6
Differential: +9.5

#2012

QB: Matt Schaub (Age 31)

Career: 89.1
2012: 90.1
Differential: +1

#2013

QB: Matt Schaub (Age 32)
Career: 89.1
2013: 73.0
Differential: -16.1

**X2014

QB: Joe Flacco (29)

Career: 84.1
2014: 91.0
Differential: +6.9

#XX2015 Broncos

No QB made 10 regular season starts.

Manning 9 starts:

Career: 96.5
2015:67.9
Differential: -28.6

Osweiler N=1​

Amazing what Kubiak was able to do with a 55 year old Bob Griese! Pretty sure you meant Brian Griese and yes, we all knew who you meant. Just bustin' yer chops.

 

[eaglesnut]

You mean 5 straight division wins, 2 SBs, 1 SB win is not enough? Von Miller will still have a great career. 1 year with Sanchez is not going to ruin it.

Ummm, I didn't say his career would be ruined. I said it's a complete waste of one of Von Miller's prime years.

 

[eaglesnut]

Well that is what people said when Manning showed this past year he was well past his prime and more of a liability than help to the team. Same thing they said when we had Tebow as our starter. Yet hey both years we made the playoffs and beat teams we were expected to get blown out by.

I didn't say any of those things.

 

[cdumler7]

I didn't say any of those things.

Plenty were. The Broncos were called the worst 1-seed in NFL history because of terrible QB play. Heck when the Chiefs started making their comeback people were betting the Broncos wouldn't even make the playoffs. I think every game in the playoffs we were underdogs by most and even in a couple of games were thought to most likely lose by 2 touchdowns or more.

 

[eaglesnut]

Plenty were. The Broncos were called the worst 1-seed in NFL history because of terrible QB play. Heck when the Chiefs started making their comeback people were betting the Broncos wouldn't even make the playoffs. I think every game in the playoffs we were underdogs by most and even in a couple of games were thought to most likely lose by 2 touchdowns or more.

That's got nothing do with Sanchez spreading his sink around the whole team.

 

[cdumler7]

That's got nothing do with Sanchez spreading his sink around the whole team.

Well if he gives us what he gave the Eagles it will still be a huge improvement over what we had here this past year so I will take it for one year. Obviously it is not the perfect situation. I would much rather have Aaron Rodgers playing QB but right now only one team can have him. There wasn't going to be a perfect solution to the QB position. Every option we could have went with would have huge question marks. Sanchez though has shown he can at least be an ok starter in this league and doesn't cost the team a ton of money while they work to develop their rookie. Again not the perfect situation but they could have done much worse.

 

[Broncosr0k]

Ummm, I didn't say his career would be ruined. I said it's a complete waste of one of Von Miller's prime years.

See sentences 2 and 3 of my post and get back to me. OR do like the rest of the fans and not give two shits about some crappy QB on a team you don't play. If I am an eagles fan I would have a lot more to talk about than some other teams QB.

 

[eaglesnut]

Well if he gives us what he gave the Eagles it will still be a huge improvement over what we had here this past year so I will take it for one year. Obviously it is not the perfect situation. I would much rather have Aaron Rodgers playing QB but right now only one team can have him. There wasn't going to be a perfect solution to the QB position. Every option we could have went with would have huge question marks. Sanchez though has shown he can at least be an ok starter in this league and doesn't cost the team a ton of money while they work to develop their rookie. Again not the perfect situation but they could have done much worse.

2015 was Sanchez's worst year. His defense gave up 90 points in two games after hearing the dreadful news that Sanchez would be starting.