Ausmus

[dengel6]

A lot of great individual stats on this team, BUT NO TEAM. Just a collection of players with no common cause. THATS THE FAILURE OF THE MANAGER.

 

[Howie115]

A lot of great individual stats on this team, BUT NO TEAM. Just a collection of players with no common cause. THATS THE FAILURE OF THE MANAGER.

Some is on the manager, some is on Dombrowski. Essentially, Dombrowski collected "baseball cards" -- some big names, without any regard to how they fit on the team.

 

[MiamiVice]

Some is on the manager, some is on Dombrowski. Essentially, Dombrowski collected "baseball cards" -- some big names, without any regard to how they fit on the team.

I can't say I agree with this. What big names are on this team that don't fit? Vmart? If he was hitting and not coming off an injury he would fit just fine. I had a major knee injury in my 30's and it took well over a year for the knee to feel strong again...

The issue with this years club is starting pitching... the second the starters started to break down.. was the second the bullpen was exposed... Im sorry but its not the big names that failed the Tigers... its simon and greene... if they would have gotten league average numbers from them.. they never would have been sellers at the deadline.

Get 2 legit starters for next year and watch the Tigers be right back in the thick of the pennant chase. Its not hard to see... They are still a very good team with 2 major weaknesses... 1. not enough starting pitching 2. not enough good bullpen arms

Solve the starting pitching... and the young guys on the farm can sort out the bullpen.

Tigers are in a position where they can solve their rotation issues this offseason as they have money to spend and this is one of the deepest free agency years for starting pitching in recent memory.

 

[Winnipegger]

I can't say I agree with this. What big names are on this team that don't fit? Vmart? If he was hitting and not coming off an injury he would fit just fine. I had a major knee injury in my 30's and it took well over a year for the knee to feel strong again...

The issue with this years club is starting pitching... the second the starters started to break down.. was the second the bullpen was exposed... Im sorry but its not the big names that failed the Tigers... its simon and greene... if they would have gotten league average numbers from them.. they never would have been sellers at the deadline.

Get 2 legit starters for next year and watch the Tigers be right back in the thick of the pennant chase. Its not hard to see... They are still a very good team with 2 major weaknesses... 1. not enough starting pitching 2. not enough good bullpen arms

Solve the starting pitching... and the young guys on the farm can sort out the bullpen.

Tigers are in a position where they can solve their rotation issues this offseason as they have money to spend and this is one of the deepest free agency years for starting pitching in recent memory.

I wouldn't bet another season on that.

 

[MiamiVice]

I wouldn't bet another season on that.

This is the typical tigers fan way of thinking.. most of tigers fans think to build a bullpen you need to invest money.. and have experienced guys... take a look around the league.. the way the tigers have been trying to build a bullpen doesn't work... it needs to stop.. this year.

If you think going out and signing some retread is going to help... you obviously haven't been watching the tigers bullpen for the last decade or more. If you think trading for an "experienced closer" is the right move.... you haven't been watching the tigers... its NOT just bad luck... Its the wrong way to build a pen.

How can the Rays field a bullpen EVERY YEAR that is well above average with guys not making more than 1 mil?
How can the marlins trade 2 or 3 bullpen arms every year and come right back with an above average bullpen?
How can the Cards keep fielding top bullpens without EVERY signing or trading for proven bullpen guys?

Its ok man... come to the light... all you have to do is look at the last 10 seasons of tigers bullpens... then look at the rest of the league and how they do stuff... you don't need name guys to field a league average bullpen... all you need is guys that can get 3 outs without giving up a run... LUKE FUCKING PUTKONEN DID THIS FOR AN ENTIRE SEASON IN 2013!!!

 

[Howie115]

all you need is guys that can get 3 outs without giving up a run... LUKE FUCKING PUTKONEN DID THIS FOR AN ENTIRE SEASON IN 2013!!!

I get your point, but Luke Putkonen did not pitch an "entire" season for the Tigers in 2013. 29 innings with Detroit, 38 innings for Toledo. Hell, Ian Krol was decent for 27 innings in 2013, and we saw how much that meant in 2014-15.

Again, I understand your point and agree to some extent, but Putkonen is not a great example.

 

[Winnipegger]

Typical forum poster, accusing another user of not watching baseball. Come on dude.

Lets say I respectfully disagree that the farm will fix the bullpen on it's own. I can't see someone from the farm emerging all of a sudden as a guy the Tigers will be willing to hand the ball to in the 9th inning next year. I do agree with you that you can't just buy a bullpen, however I do strongly feel there needs to be an external addition to the bullpen for next season. I like Darren O'Day.

 

[MiamiVice]

Typical forum poster, accusing another user of not watching baseball. Come on dude.

Lets say I respectfully disagree that the farm will fix the bullpen on it's own. I can't see someone from the farm emerging all of a sudden as a guy the Tigers will be willing to hand the ball to in the 9th inning next year. I do agree with you that you can't just buy a bullpen, however I do strongly feel there needs to be an external addition to the bullpen for next season. I like Darren O'Day.

Ok.. lets do i your way.. lets do like the tigers do every year for the last decade and sign some retread... It will be different this time.. I promise.

 

[MiamiVice]

Signing a bullpen guy in free agency should be a HUGE red flag... that means the other team doesn't want to spend the money to keep them... Ask yourself why that is?

I get Luke Putkonen threw only 29 innings of 3.03 era.. but the point is this.. the Tigers got 29 innings of 3.03 era from Luke Putkonen... Ian Krol had a nice stretch? Guess what... they got a nice 10-15 innings from Ian Krol... at 500,000k a year... THAT is my point... You don't need to spend 5 mil, 8 mil, 10 mil on good relievers... you don't need to have the same guys up the entire year... if you get 29 innings from a guy like Knudson and he starts to suck.. guess what.. you send him down... and call up a hot hand from AA or AAA... he cost 500k and has options left.

Tigers fans just keep wanting to do the same thing over and over year after year with the bullpen.. thinking maybe the next guy won't blow up in our face... all the while teams like the Cards, Marlins, A's, Rays, Orioles, Rangers, and Giants keep chugging along with average to above average bullpens year after year.... without investing in large free agent contracts or trading prospects for a relief pitcher... Its not that hard... Blaine Hardy fell into the Tigers lap... so did Alex Wilson... Out of the entire last 3 drafts... you can't tell me two of the 40 pitchers they got can't get 3 outs in a game without giving up a run on the regular... you just aren't going to sell me on that. The Tigers could easily field a decent bullpen by using Verhagen, Farmer, Ryan/Boyd, Hardy, Wilson, and alburquerque/rondon.... with guys like knudson, ferrell, mantiply, voelker, and a long long list of others ready to be called up if one of the guys falters... It may surprise you guys.. but the rest of the leagues fans don't put this much attention to the bullpen.. because it rarely is this hard to build one... even low payroll bottom dwellers can do it with less than 5 mil in annual payroll invested there.. sometimes much less.

You don't want someone from the farm to handle the 9th next year? Cool.. There is Wilson or Hardy to handle that... Heck... I would even bet a few bucks that says Verhagen might end up a closer at some point.. he throws 97 mph and has 3 above average pitches... If he gets on a role this month.. it wouldn't surprise me at all. The kid has a look in his eye when he goes out on the mound that I like.

 

[BUD]

Ausmus needs to go... It's how it is

 

[Howie115]

Ausmus needs to go... It's how it is

Hindsight is 20/20, but damn, we could've gone after Maddon. Look what he's done with the Cubs. But then I don't know what even he could have done with this atrocious pitching staff that DD assembled.

 

[Winnipegger]

Signing a bullpen guy in free agency should be a HUGE red flag... that means the other team doesn't want to spend the money to keep them... Ask yourself why that is?
.

If you're 32 years old with a career 2.35 ERA, blocked by Zach Britton, and offered more money because Baltimore already has a 23 year old closer? If you sign the right guy it can make a huge difference, its not like every FA reliever is going to be Nathan bad next year.

 

[Winnipegger]

Hindsight is 20/20, but damn, we could've gone after Maddon. Look what he's done with the Cubs. But then I don't know what even he could have done with this atrocious pitching staff that DD assembled.

And that pool of prospects!

 

[MiamiVice]

If you're 32 years old with a career 2.35 ERA, blocked by Zach Britton, and offered more money because Baltimore already has a 23 year old closer? If you sign the right guy it can make a huge difference, its not like every FA reliever is going to be Nathan bad next year.

You may be correct... O'day may end up being great... but he has 10 saves in 7 years... only 2 this year... The Tigers have a 28 yr old with 2 saves this year.. that has an era of 2.18 and a whip of 1.05.. that will cost about 500k next year... Alex Wilson...Why pay millions for a comparable player making a fraction of the cost.

Every year its the same thing.. lets go get someone else's free agent.. out spend to get them... that will fix the problem.. the other 10 years attempts at this method were just bad luck... meanwhile the Rays will have a closer that is better than the Tigers making less than a 1 mil...

I am just sick of this method.. spending money on the bullpen has done nothing but hurt the Tigers... Half the league had an investment of less than 10 mil total in bullpen arms... the Tigers paid that to their closer the last how many seasons? How has that worked out?

No other fanbase is so worried about who will be in their pen next year.. none... because every other team has the ability to fill bullpen roles with no name guys from the minors...

 

[MiamiVice]

Have you guys ever thought about this? What if the Tigers didn't have 10 mil invested in Joe Nathan and 7 mil invested in Soria... what if they didn't have millions tied to guys like Joba (last year).. what if they could make roster moves based on who was the better pitcher not on who had a huge contract and needed to play?

Can you honestly say that Blaine Hardy wouldn't have been a better closer last year than Nathan? If Nathan was not making 10 mil last year.. would he still have had a roster spot? If Joba wasn't under a multi million dollar deal.. would a minor leaguer have been getting his innings?

Once the Tigers sign these deals.. they are tied to them... that is an huge issue... you want to know what the Marlins do when their closer is struggling? They send them to the minors ( because they have options left) and call someone else up and the bullpen does just fine... wouldn't that be a nice option for the Tigers?

 

[Winnipegger]

Yeah, it sure would be lovely.

 

[dengel6]

With Bruce Rondon as the closer "all is well".

 

[da55bums]

O'day is a proven stud and would be absolutely great for any team, basically an ace if a tiger.

If you actually watch Tigers games for the last decade, then you have seen what happens to Tiger call ups to the pen, they blow up. The Tigers game plan for years has been go cheap on bullpen, that's why they can't even get to the closer. Tigers need to learn that they need to spend on MORE than 1 guy.

 

[dengel6]

Brad will be back, and so will last place.

 

[Lions=TeHsUcKs]

Never was sold on the hire to be honest.. I really wish the Tigers got Francona a year prior..

Bingo