Athletic freaks: Just the numbers

[MHSL82]

Watt's up!

 

[Dodub]

Vernon Davis has to be on that list, no doubt about it. Along with Manny Lawson.

 

[tallglassofwater007]

Like Dodub said...wasn't Vernon Davis considered a freak at the combine and people were worried he would be just that and never develop?

 

[NinerSickness]

Like Dodub said...wasn't Vernon Davis considered a freak at the combine and people were worried he would be just that and never develop?

Yes they were. He's one of those players that if he got injured badly & never became great people would say he was a Raider-esque pick & spout off some one-liners about how you should look at the film instead of the "underwear bowl" or something like that. Good thing the Niners didn't listen to those kinds of people.

 

[Dodub]

Yes they were. He's one of those players that if he got injured badly & never became great people would say he was a Raider-esque pick & spout off some one-liners about how you should look at the film instead of the "underwear bowl" or something like that. Good thing the Niners didn't listen to those kinds of people.

I'm glad they drafted him too. But VD wasn't one of those players as he showed in college to be able to develop into a dominant NFL player. A lot of these workout warriors from the combine just don't translate into the NFL and then you end up with busts and disasters in silver and black.

As I have said time and again, film is the most important thing to consider when looking at draft picks, much more important to the combine. If a player doesn't have the film and doesn't show that he can play the position then his combine numbers are useless, if the players game might not necessarily translate to the NFL then his combine numbers are useless. First we have to determine if a guy can play football, then we can look at how athletic they are. In that order.


BTW Taylor Mays should be included here too.

 

[NinerSickness]

As I have said time and again, film is the most important thing to consider when looking at draft picks, much more important to the combine. If a player doesn't have the film and doesn't show that he can play the position then his combine numbers are useless, if the players game might not necessarily translate to the NFL then his combine numbers are useless. First we have to determine if a guy can play football, then we can look at how athletic they are. In that order.

That's like saying the most important ingredient in a banana strawberry smoothie is bananas IMO. You can't make a good projection about the guy's ability in the NFL without both aspects.

It's worse to draft a guy with great film & poor pure athletic talent (Dwayne Jarrett) than it is to draft a guy who's a monster athlete & has bad film (like Mays). At least the latter of the two has a chance of developing into a decent player; the former will never produce no matter how hard he works.

A good example in this draft is DJ Sweareninger & David Amerson. They were drafted a few picks apart from each other. Swearinger's film was much better last season, but Amerson has a better chance of developing into a great player IMO. So I'll go with Amerson.

 

[Dodub]

That's like saying the most important ingredient in a banana strawberry smoothie is bananas IMO. You can't make a good projection about the guy's ability in the NFL without both aspects.

It's worse to draft a guy with great film & poor pure athletic talent (Dwayne Jarrett) than it is to draft a guy who's a monster athlete & has bad film (like Mays). At least the latter of the two has a chance of developing into a decent player; the former will never produce no matter how hard he works.

A good example in this draft is DJ Sweareninger & David Amerson. They were drafted a few picks apart from each other. Swearinger's film was much better last season, but Amerson has a better chance of developing into a great player IMO. So I'll go with Amerson.

No, it isn't like saying that. These guys are football players and their ability to play football is more important than how athletic they are. Period.

How is it worse to draft a Dwayne Jarrett than a Taylor Mays? They are both busts, they both have the CHANCE to develop into a decent player but neither of them did. Mays has done absolutely nothing as a safety in this league and doesn't look to start, he is basically an athletic special teamer. Jarrett has been a bust as a WR but has actually produced a little at his position.

In fact, who has had a better NFL career thus far between Mays and Jarrett?

I don't like that example for several reasons. One is that CB is much higher in terms of importance than safety, secondly Amerson had an amazing season the year before, meaning that he put some good stuff on film. He showed the league that he can play his position, he also performed well at the combine. This isn't the same as guys like Mays and Gholston who were pure athletes that didn't translate to the NFL game.

 

[NinerSickness]

How is it worse to draft a Dwayne Jarrett than a Taylor Mays?

Because Jarrett can't do anything in the NFL no matter. Mays may be able to develop into a good special teams player or even a backup safety or maybe switch to OLB and make some impact on an NFL team. It's better to have a guy with a 5% chance to be a decent player than a guy with a 0% chance.

I don't like that example for several reasons. One is that CB is much higher in terms of importance than safety, secondly Amerson had an amazing season the year before, meaning that he put some good stuff on film. He showed the league that he can play his position, he also performed well at the combine. This isn't the same as guys like Mays and Gholston who were pure athletes that didn't translate to the NFL game.

Gholston? Just an athlete? The guy made Jake Long look like Kwame Harris in college. Gholston had plenty of film. He was probably just a 'roid case in all honesty.

And Amerson didn't show the league he could play the position his sophomore year; he showed the league he can catch a football. That's different. If you don't like that example I'll look for a better one from past or present...

 

[NinerSickness]

How 'bout Ziggy Anzah VS Barkevious Mingo? My money is on Anzah to be the FAR superior player.

Based on Anzahs's film alone, he'd be lucky to get drafted in the first 3 rounds. But athletic ability pushed him into the top 5 (for a good reason). He's the kind of player that dorks on sports radio, who don't have a clue when it comes to the draft, say to avoid. Obviously NFL GMs beg to differ.

 

[Dodub]

Because Jarrett can't do anything in the NFL no matter. Mays may be able to develop into a good special teams player or even a backup safety or maybe switch to OLB and make some impact on an NFL team. It's better to have a guy with a 5% chance to be a decent player than a guy with a 0% chance.



Gholston? Just an athlete? The guy made Jake Long look like Kwame Harris in college. Gholston had plenty of film. He was probably just a 'roid case in all honesty.

And Amerson didn't show the league he could play the position his sophomore year; he showed the league he can catch a football. That's different. If you don't like that example I'll look for a better one from past or present...

Jarrett is not a good NFL WR but Mays is a worse NFL Safety and has proven this to be the case. Mays' athletic abilities just didn't pan out in the NFL while Jarrett didn't pan out either but at least he had minor success. Mays' best chance on any roster is as a special teams ace, which allows him to use his abilities, while his position require more skill than Mays possesses.

Gholston's game didn't translate to the NFL, he was too stiff and too 1 dimensional, in college he relied nearly entirely on athletic talent while in the NFL that just doesn't work. I agree that he most likely was a steroid user.

Amerson definitely showed the league that he could play, he was on everyone's radar after his strong season. His problem is that he came out this past season and laid an egg. Had he had a repeat performance or built upon this success then he would have no doubt been a 1st rounder. He showed the league that he can dominate at his position, period. To say that he was simply a workout warrior is inaccurate.

Now Mays played well at his position in college but not to the level that Amerson did. His coverage skills were well below average, he was stiff (just like every USC S recently) and his instincts were lacking. Everyone had a feeling that his game would have a hard time translating to the next level regardless of his physical talents.

 

[NinerSickness]

Jarrett is not a good NFL WR but Mays is a worse NFL Safety and has proven this to be the case. Mays' athletic abilities just didn't pan out in the NFL while Jarrett didn't pan out either but at least he had minor success.

At least Mays is still in the league. Jarrett didn't have anything even remotely resembling minor success. He's not even good enough to make an NFL roster.

 

[Dodub]

At least Mays is still in the league. Jarrett didn't have anything even remotely resembling minor success. He's not even good enough to make an NFL roster.

Jarrett to this point has been more successful then Mays. Now that isn't saying much since Mas has done jack crap in the NFL. But it is a fact, Mays' talents didn't translate to him playing a position in the NFL.

I don't at all consider being a pure special teamer as successful.

 

[NinerSickness]

I don't at all consider being a pure special teamer as successful.

Neither do I, but it's more successful than being unemployed.

 

[Dodub]

Neither do I, but it's more successful than being unemployed.

It is, but this doesn't prove anything are they were both terrible NFL players. Mays is more of an athlete then he is a football player, he is a tweener without a true position in the NFL. This is why I say it is important to look at film first.

As for Jarrett, I never really was too impressed with him as a receiver. He like Mike Williams, used his size to his advantage and made DB's look like little kids. I didn't think he was a great route runner, wasn't explosive out of breaks, etc.

 

[NinerSickness]

Well, I think Anzah has a chance to to put a lot of weight on my side of this argument if he becomes a great player. My side being that film isn't more important than athletic numbers, nor are the numbers more important than the film. They're both necessary parts of a good evaluation. You can't ignore either one.

 

[Dodub]

Well, I think Anzah has a chance to to put a lot of weight on my side of this argument if he becomes a great player. My side being that film isn't more important than athletic numbers, nor are the numbers more important than the film. They're both necessary parts of a good evaluation. You can't ignore either one.

I would say that the majority of guys who are successful in the NFL are not only great football players but also great athletes.

That being said, I do think it is easier to succeed in the NFL being a so-so athlete but a great player then if you are a great athlete and not a good player.

Examples: Jerry Rice, Chris Carter, Larry Fitzgerald, Rod Woodson, Emmett Smith, Frank Gore, Anquan Boldin, etc. Those are just names off the top of my head, they were not very athletic but it is their skill as football players that set them apart.

I would be interested to see states on the success rate of workout warriors.