At what point should a team give up on a young player?

[DaBoltsNIsles]

The Islanders have a few players who are off to bad starts this year. The thing is I don't think it's going to get any better for some of them. Josh Bailey is in his 4th year. Kyle Okposo is coming off an injury riddled season. Blake Comeau has been in the doghouse. Frans Nielsen is in a contract year.

I really think Bailey needs a change of scenery. The talent is their. It's just not working. I was expecting big things from Okposo. So far the most goals he's scored in a season is 19. I like his game. Some are concerned about his conditioning though. He's signed a 5 year cap friendly deal in the offseason. So they obviously like him. I just don't know if he's ever going to reach his full potential with the Islanders.

So I ask all of you at what point should a team cut ties with young players?

 

[puckhead]

depends on so many things...

- where is the team in its development
- can you get decent assets in return for him
- has he been passed on the depth chart by another prospect
- does he make other players better or worse
- would he have a better shot at success elsewhere

I don't know about your guys, but people like Grabner didn't have a chance to play top 6 here, so they let him go.
while someone like Jim Sandlak was held on to for far too long because they were afraid of giving up another Neely

 

[jstewismybastardson]

depends on so many things...

- where is the team in its development
- can you get decent assets in return for him
- has he been passed on the depth chart by another prospect
- does he make other players better or worse
- would he have a better shot at success elsewhere

I don't know about your guys, but people like Grabner didn't have a chance to play top 6 here, so they let him go.
while someone like Jim Sandlak was held on to for far too long because they were afraid of giving up another Neely

also depends on organization dynamics ... where that player was picked in the draft and who picked that player ... and how much the team is spending on player development.

ie the Sedins picked 1 - 2 by Burke ... struggled for multiple years ... came into the league as horrible skaters ... yet Crawford kept throwing them out there second unit pp ... how much of keeping them was Burke (and his ego) not wanting to admit he made a mistake

to a lesser extent Kesler ... they stuck with him and let him mature into a perrenial Selke nominee type player

with Coho ... I cant see the canucks trading him because he was picked by Gillis ... his first draft pick coming into the organization when he said the prospect cupboard was bare ... and with all the emphasis/money the organization has riding on player development ... i dont see Gillis prematurely admitting failure

 

[thedddd]

puckhead...great points

As for the players mentioned Neilson probably has no value in a deal and probably could be waived.

Don't give up on Okposo he is good and if he can play more with Taveras would help. As for Bailey he needs to gell with a winger like a Grabner.

I think what would help the young players out on that team is a top-6 type winger with experience, doesn't seem like Rolston is the answer.

 

[dash]

I don't know, but when you don't even offer a contract to a guy and he returns a little later to break your heart in overtime of game 6 of the 2004 Stanley Cup finals, that's giving up too early on a player.

/Nicely done Craig Button (and also Greg Gilbert)

 

[SandyBeach26]

depends on so many things...

- where is the team in its development
- can you get decent assets in return for him
- has he been passed on the depth chart by another prospect
- does he make other players better or worse
- would he have a better shot at success elsewhere

I don't know about your guys, but people like Grabner didn't have a chance to play top 6 here, so they let him go.
while someone like Jim Sandlak was held on to for far too long because they were afraid of giving up another Neely

I agree..these are all great points.

And WHEN to let go of a young player also comes from managements' assessment of that player in terms of attitude, personal history, and conduct behind closed doors. Those are things us fans, and even reporters, never really see.

But if a player has potential, but keeps hitting roadblocks, yet has a good attitude with his teammates or is valueable in some other way not measured by stats, then the GM may want to hold on to him.....on the flipside, if he offers NO OTHER intangibles, is problematic, has some personal demons of sorts AND he doesn't show up on the ice, its an easy "let go"....or at least the desire to let go will be.....getting the proper compensation is another thing entirely.

 

[SandyBeach26]

I don't know, but when you don't even offer a contract to a guy and he returns a little later to break your heart in overtime of game 6 of the 2004 Stanley Cup finals, that's giving up too early on a player.

/Nicely done Craig Button (and also Greg Gilbert)

Is that a Marty St. Louis reference?

 

[dash]

Is that a Marty St. Louis reference?

You win the prize, Sandy...

/The best I can do is some rep points.

 

[Darkstone42]

I think a lot of the time it comes down to whether or not you have someone of comparable potential who is succeeding in the now who can replace him. It also might depend on how "giving up" on him is done. Can you deal him? Must you waive him? Could you put him in the minors to see if he can figure it out? Is it worth keeping him around as depth?

I think the magic number, though, if any, is 26. If by 26 a player isn't at least contributing at an NHL level, he's probably never going to.

 

[Automattic]

You should always wait until they are old, and then let the Wings pick them up.

 

[Jimmy_the_Tongue]

It's the Islanders...maybe you should just get used to it....

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

depends on so many things...

- where is the team in its development
- can you get decent assets in return for him
- has he been passed on the depth chart by another prospect
- does he make other players better or worse
- would he have a better shot at success elsewhere

I don't know about your guys, but people like Grabner didn't have a chance to play top 6 here, so they let him go.
while someone like Jim Sandlak was held on to for far too long because they were afraid of giving up another Neely

You make a lot of great points.

Bailey was rushed. No question about it. Another year in the OHL might have done wonders. The thing is last year he was sent to the AHL & he lit it up. They can't send him down now because he'd have to clear waivers.

Right now Bailey is the 3rd line center. He will be passed on the depth chart as early as next season by Ryan Strome or Brock Nelson & maybe Casey Cizikas.

I don't have any idea what his value is. Probably not much at the moment. I do think Bailey needs a change of scenery if he's going to make an impact in the NHL.

Okposo plays on the 2nd line right now with Nielsen & Grabner. So far the results haven't been very good. Comeau had his best year with those guys. The problem is I don't think the Isles see Okposo as a 3rd line player.

With all the injuries that Hodgson has gone through it's harder to tell what he's going to be. Obviously he was expected to be a top 6 forward. I really thought Schroeder was going to be a good player in the NHL. It might still happen, but what do you think his biggest obstacle is (size)?

Every player develops at a different speed. Some are just ready before others. The biggest question for teams is probably knowing when a player is ready.

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

puckhead...great points

As for the players mentioned Neilson probably has no value in a deal and probably could be waived.

Don't give up on Okposo he is good and if he can play more with Taveras would help. As for Bailey he needs to gell with a winger like a Grabner.

I think what would help the young players out on that team is a top-6 type winger with experience, doesn't seem like Rolston is the answer.

I disagree on Nielsen. If they don't come to terms on an extension they'll trade him before the deadline. He finished 6th in Selke voting last season & an entire voting block on the east coast didn't even vote because of the Chris Botta mess.

 

[puckhead]

With all the injuries that Hodgson has gone through it's harder to tell what he's going to be. Obviously he was expected to be a top 6 forward. I really thought Schroeder was going to be a good player in the NHL. It might still happen, but what do you think his biggest obstacle is (size)?

Hodgson looks like he belongs for the most part. he got utterly owned by Hall on one of the goals yesterday (coming off of the boards), but that was an anomaly. His hockey smarts are as advertised, and he mostly makes very smart plays with the puck. He was fine as a 2nd liner, though looked to feed Kesler a bit too early and often (hard to blame him for that, though). On the 3rd line, he has simply been the best player. He's taken a huge step this year, in confidence and health.

Schroeder - i just don't know about... size is obviously a bit of an issue, but when he's on his game, he's a very effective waterbug. Cannon of a shot, but he tries to go upstairs every single time - not effective at generating rebounds. He should be eating up the AHL with his skill, so it makes me think there might be a fitness / work ethic issue. I hope it gets worked out, whatever it is. he's got talent galore.

 

[pixburgher66]

It's a very hard thing to judge. Some times a guy just won't be successful within a certain organization. Some guys just get frustrated with the situation and just don't play to their potential, but the second they're moved they explode. It's hard to blame GMs when a guy is a yearly underachiever in your system, but then has great success elsewhere.

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

I think it depends on the role that player is expected to play.

If a guy comes in with the expectation that he's going to be your franchise #1 center for the next 15 years and turns out to be a solid 15-20 goal scorer only, the guy is seen as a bust because he didn't meet expectations, but that doesn't mean that there isn't a role for him with the team. As long as the expectations - and the salary - are adjusted accordingly, a lot of these guys can fit in nicely.

However, if that's all that a team has is those kinds of guys, then some decisions have to be made about which ones to dump.