Arbitration

[pete6835]

CANADIENS AGREE TO TERMS WITH SUBBAN ON EIGHT-YEAR CONTRACT

Canadiens agree to terms with Subban on eight-year contract

 

[davnlaguna]

CANADIENS AGREE TO TERMS WITH SUBBAN ON EIGHT-YEAR CONTRACT

Canadiens agree to terms with Subban on eight-year contract

Argghhhhhh
So now Drew is a bargin.

 

[oxnardkingsfan]

A little too much fan pressure for Montreal I guess. Overpaid by a bunch in my estimation but I guess we'll have to wait and see how it works out for them.

Ox

 

[PuckinUgly57]

CANADIENS AGREE TO TERMS WITH SUBBAN ON EIGHT-YEAR CONTRACT

Canadiens agree to terms with Subban on eight-year contract

This asshat got $9 million per season? HOLY SHIT!

I guess he can go spend it with his entourage that goes around following a Cup he hasn't come close to winning yet.

 

[PuckinUgly57]

On a side note, which was the original topic of this thread, I can't believe King got $1.95 million. Way more than I would have paid the guy.

The deal expires a year after he would have been eligible for UFA status, so there may be a premium involved, but I would have capped this guy out at $1.4 million tops.

 

[Deader2818]

Subban did lead the Habs to the ECF last year. If not for a Price injury it could have very well been Habs vs Kings in the finals.

 

[oxnardkingsfan]

Subban did lead the Habs to the ECF last year. If not for a Price injury it could have very well been Habs vs Kings in the finals.

I'm not sure how much leading he did. I will admit he was their leading scorer with 5 goals (4 on the power play) and 14 points but I'm not sure how many of those led to wins or were game winners. Maybe it's my dislike of his showboat style. I just can't get myself to like someone who has to skate by himself out to center ice to celebrate a goal. That to me is someone saying it's all about me, not the team.

Ox

 

[PuckinUgly57]

Subban did lead the Habs to the ECF last year. If not for a Price injury it could have very well been Habs vs Kings in the finals.

Didn't you learn your lesson with Habs players and how great they are only to never repeat it again :::cough cough::: 2010 Halak?

He led them in scoring, not much else - I watched that entire series because after the SJ series I had no doubt in my mind the Kings were going to the SCFs (see the PO playoff prediction thread for proof) so I was doing some fan scouting.

Subban is a glorified forward who, like Ovechkin, will never help his team a Cup until his attitude changes. He is textbook primadonna.

 

[histkng23]

Problem is Subban won the most destroyed award, in a shortened season no less, being the Norris Trophy. Award is to be given to the most outstanding defenseman, yet tragically has been given more to the defenseman that has accumulated the most points (redardless if the were accumulated on power-plays, or against teams with the worst goaltending), rather than being a defenseman who actually controls the game. They honestly should create a secondary award named the Bobby Orr Award for the NHL's highest scoring defenseman. That would give more credance back to the Norris for a more truely outstanding defenseman. JMO, but I have heard other analysts propose the same idea.

 

[Deader2818]

You're going to tell me Subban is a one year flash in the pan? ok lol.

I guess you didn't see that Montreal-Boston Series.

 

[PuckinUgly57]

You're going to tell me Subban is a one year flash in the pan? ok lol.

I guess you didn't see that Montreal-Boston Series.

Never said he was a flash in the pan, but he's not as good as some people believe (obviously).

He had a decent playoffs, but compare him to Doughty - did he control the game? No. Did he make a difference when it mattered? Not often. Is he a team guy? Not even a fat chance. Guys like Chara, Doughty, Suter, Weber, etc. are complete 3-zone defenders and he is nowhere in their class.

He racked up a ton of points and that's about it. Not worth $9 million by any stretch of the imagination but hey, if you like spinoramas and showboating, he's your man!

=)~~

 

[PuckinUgly57]

Problem is Subban won the most destroyed award, in a shortened season no less, being the Norris Trophy. Award is to be given to the most outstanding defenseman, yet tragically has been given more to the defenseman that has accumulated the most points (redardless if the were accumulated on power-plays, or against teams with the worst goaltending), rather than being a defenseman who actually controls the game. They honestly should create a secondary award named the Bobby Orr Award for the NHL's highest scoring defenseman. That would give more credance back to the Norris for a more truely outstanding defenseman. JMO, but I have heard other analysts propose the same idea.

The Norris has become a joke for this reason alone, I don't even consider it a real trophy anymore. I stopped about the time Blake won in in 1998 when it was painfully obvious he won because he led the league with 23 goals for a defenseman but became one of three NHL players ever to win it with a negative plus/minus rating.

In our generation, the true winners were guys like Bourque, Lidstrom and Chelios, Chara. That's about it.

 

[Deader2818]

Salaries are going to go up because the cap is going up. That's why you are seeing star players sign for 9-10 million now. Its all relative.

Not saying Subban is better than Doughty because hes not. But 1) Montreal can't just let him go because it will be really hard to replace him. 2) Hes a Top 5 defenseman in this league.

 

[histkng23]

The Norris has become a joke for this reason alone, I don't even consider it a real trophy anymore. I stopped about the time Blake won in in 1998 when it was painfully obvious he won because he led the league with 23 goals for a defenseman but became one of three NHL players ever to win it with a negative plus/minus rating.

In our generation, the true winners were guys like Bourque, Lidstrom and Chelios, Chara. That's about it.

Not to take anything away from those guys, but the fact that Scott Stevens never won the Norris is a near travesty as that he was one of the most feared defenders in the league during the 90s. Neidermeyer should have won more than his one, but he was always going to be in the shadow of Lidstrom because of New Jersey's system not allowing him to rack up as many points as Detroits system allowed. But the fact that Erik Karlsonn won the Norris a couple of years ago as a 20 year old over the likes of Chara & Weber was a joke! What was even funnier was in The Hockey News' season preview issue the following year they were trying to justify Karlsonn's Norris win by claiming he had comparable/better numbers than Bobby Orr & Paul Coffey at the same age, yet never mentioning any defensive zone capabilities. They've completely ignored a defenseman's defensive responsibilities in the equation, which is sad.

 

[PuckinUgly57]

Salaries are going to go up because the cap is going up. That's why you are seeing star players sign for 9-10 million now. Its all relative.

I understand that, but the cap is projected to go up. It's not guaranteed, just like last year the cap went down instead of up because it's all based on HRR (Hockey Related Revenue) and the classifications for that are not only masked but in some cases with penny pinching teams, diverted to other accounts or not reported altogether.

Subban is not a $9 million defender anyway you slice it, whether it's cap related or ability related. I don't blame the guy for signing the deal - who wouldn't? - but Montreal severely overpaid him. Not only that, he wanted a 5 year/$25 million deal two summers ago but they balked at it and now look. It's their own damn fault and personally I am happy, they will be cap constrained in a few years.

Should have just given him fair market value at the longest term like Dumbo did with Doughty.

Not saying Subban is better than Doughty because hes not. But 1) Montreal can't just let him go because it will be really hard to replace him. 2) Hes a Top 5 defenseman in this league.

I beg to differ my friend, I just rattled off 4 or so who are much better than him in the true sense of "defense" who will win you more games. He is a turnover machine, which happens when you try to dance through 4 guys by yourself instead of using your teammates.

I put him in a level below those 4 guys, I would put him in the lower half of Top 20 defenders.

 

[PuckinUgly57]

Not to take anything away from those guys, but the fact that Scott Stevens never won the Norris is a near travesty as that he was one of the most feared defenders in the league during the 90s.

It really is a shame he never won one, to me he is arguably the most complete defender to ever play the game. He put up points early in his career, solid in his own end, tough as nails, led by example and no matter what people say he was a clean hitter - I think in his career he only had 4-5 elbowing penalties ever. Keep in mind this is a career that spanned 22 years. I modeled myself after him growing up except my checks aren't nearly as devastating haha. Effective, yes, decapitating, no.

This is a great clip of his I found, I remember most of these hits but you can almost feel the power destroyed people with. It's unreal. It's a bit long but well worth it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAPYh6z_eGg

He didn't win because unfortunately for him he played in an era of Bourque, Chelios, Coffey, Leetch, etc. If you think his 90s were good, you should have seen him in the 80s.

Tough crowd to be in, although Coffey won those because of his offensive prowess. Chelios, of that group, was the most complete in my opinion. He also had to deal with Rod Langway, who was his teammate for Stevens' first two years in the NHL, who won the Norris in 1982 and 1983 back to back. By the time he really started to stand out as a complete defender, he had turned more into a defensive specialist, and we know that doesn't win Norris trophies.

Neidermeyer should have won more than his one, but he was always going to be in the shadow of Lidstrom because of New Jersey's system not allowing him to rack up as many points as Detroits system allowed.

I think the reason why Neidermeyer didn't win more than his one was because of Stevens actually. If he played on another team where he was "the man", like in Anaheim after Pronger left, Neidermeyer would have won more. Doughty reminds me more of him than Lidstrom that writers and fans like to compare him to, he was unbelievably good.

But the fact that Erik Karlsonn won the Norris a couple of years ago as a 20 year old over the likes of Chara & Weber was a joke! What was even funnier was in The Hockey News' season preview issue the following year they were trying to justify Karlsonn's Norris win by claiming he had comparable/better numbers than Bobby Orr & Paul Coffey at the same age, yet never mentioning any defensive zone capabilities. They've completely ignored a defenseman's defensive responsibilities in the equation, which is sad.

I remember reading that, that was some funny crap. The kid is great offensively, but is a land mine in his own end. He put up 70+ points last year again (31 points on the PP) but finished -15. That's hard to imagine when only about a third of your points came on the PP, it really shows you struggled in your end although plus/minus is a team stat.

By comparison, Subban put up 53 points (23 PP points), so almost half this guy's production came on the man advantage. He did not face top competition last year, and his zone starts were tilted towards the offensive zone over 50% of the time. He is suspect in his own zone and just looks to score, yet he is in Norris discussions and even worse won it before Doughty did?

That's nothing short of a joke and the Habs paid him $9 million. Joke's on you!

 

[Deader2818]

typically most defenseman get most of their points on the power player so that shouldn't be unexpected.

 

[Deader2818]

during the season Subban started 28.7% of his shifts in the offensive zone, 38.5 in the neutral zone and 32.8 in the defensive zone.

Doughty Started 34.8 in the offensive, 35.9 neutral 29.3% in defensive zone.

 

[oxnardkingsfan]

during the season Subban started 28.7% of his shifts in the offensive zone, 38.5 in the neutral zone and 32.8 in the defensive zone.

Doughty Started 34.8 in the offensive, 35.9 neutral 29.3% in defensive zone.

Deader you've got way too much time on your hands if you can dig up those kind of stats. And my question would be: What do those statistics that tell us?

Ox

 

[PuckinUgly57]

Deader you've got way too much time on your hands if you can dig up those kind of stats. And my question would be: What do those statistics that tell us?

Ox

Bingo.

Starting in the defensive zone versus some EC's third line is not the same as starting in the defensive zone against a top line.

Subban was kept away from top lines specifically by Therrien, because he knows he is not that solid in his own end.