Andy Dalton can't handle pressure

[DanBengalfan]

the only sack Andy Dalton will be eating is a sack of white castle hamburgers.

 

[cincygrad]

Sat behind Joe Cool for years, so not a fair comparison.......

Steve Young played two seasons for Tampa..... I think the NFL burned all of the footage.

 

[cincygrad]

65% completion, 24 TD's, 15 INT. Not great, but well above average in the NFL of a decade ago. In 2005, 24 TD's was tied for the 4th best in the league. Heck, Peyton Manning had 28 and Brady 26. Most of the other major statistical categories, he's in the top 10. There's no comparison between their stats 10 years apart.

Dalton in a pass happy league is statistically still an average QB.

The Chargers already had Rivers in the wings, nonetheless, offered Brees a large contract (but with incentives due to injury to his throwing shoulder). The Saints offered a better contract. It was simply a risk the Chargers didn't want to talk already with another young promising QB waiting in the wings. Talent wasn't the issue.

I agree that it's a different game..... But there is no rule that states that you HAVE to throw it so many times in a season. Dalton is not a good enough quarterback to run an offense so far slanted toward the pass. There are plenty of cities in the NFL with average QBs that have a much better chance to succeed.

Again, I wish he were gone..... He's not going anywhere for at least 3 seasons. If we plan to stick with him, our only hope is a gimmicky offense or a limited offense.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I agree that it's a different game..... But there is no rule that states that you HAVE to throw it so many times in a season. Dalton is not a good enough quarterback to run an offense so far slanted toward the pass. There are plenty of cities in the NFL with average QBs that have a much better chance to succeed.

Again, I wish he were gone..... He's not going anywhere for at least 3 seasons. If we plan to stick with him, our only hope is a gimmicky offense or a limited offense.

I agree he is not the greatest QB and if there had been a real chance to upgrade the position, they should have taken it. I don't think there was a single QB in the draft this year capable of upgrading our offense over Dalton, not one. Then you look at FA. Who the hell was out there capable of upgrading the position?

No one.

Dalton is our best chance to win now. He doesn't have to have a gimmicky offense, he has to have a solid supporting cast, and the best way to make Dalton a more efficient QB is to not force him to throw the ball 40 times a game and put the entire offense on his shoulders. You improve that run game, and make that play action more deadly, and he will improve greatly. A good run offense forces the defense to decide if the they should stick the extra backer in the box or in the secondary. If Green, Jones, Sanu and Sanzenbacher can get some single coverage, along with the defense tryign to figure out if they need to stick extra coverage stanted towards the TE's, or the RB, how many guys to send on the blitz because everyone in the offense is a threat to score, then Dalton doesn't have to rush his throws as often, will get better blocking in general because the defense is having to play read a little more, and he will not have so many over / under coverages down the field. Dalton has enough accuracy to pick defenses apart.

If Hue can make that run offense more lethal, then I bet Dalton's efficiency, QBR and overall stats increase, even with less opportunities. I think most of the success of this season will hinge on the run offense and the blocking of our beat up OL.

 

[kramer1]

Crash thinks Dalton is better than Blake Bortles. Of course he does.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Crash thinks Dalton is better than Blake Bortles. Of course he does.

1) Bortles is the #2 pick, we had no shot.

2) Yes, I don't think Bortles is anywhere as good as Dalton is in our offense, at least for a couple years.

3) Dalton is a pretty good QB outside the playoffs. He has his bad games, but also has great games. All QB's do.

 

[DanBengalfan]

it's not that he shits his pants because we are in the playoffs, he just typically can't adjust to the pace of playing against good defenses.

 

[augustisback003]

"There are several good passers just below Dalton who suffer dramatically with pressure in their face, like Peyton Manning (86.8 QBR without pressure, 26.7 QBR under duress) and Drew Brees (80.3 QBR without pressure, 26.5 QBR under duress), but they’re so good when not bothered that they can slip by. Dalton can’t"


That ruins the whole point of the article for me. You can become a transcendent, first ballot HOF player if you struggle under pressure. But you can't be a quality starting QB if you have that flaw?

Dalton has the target on his back and the analysis is completely slanted against him

The point you missed was that, while every QB struggles under pressure none do so to the extent of Dalton. And while you posted Manning's and Brees' numbers under pressure you failed to list Dalton's QBR of 11.1% which is a drop of 81.4% from his non pressured QBR. Which is the WORST in the League.

 

[augustisback003]

Why are you down on Andy Dalton? I know he just got a big contract but damn man its not like Cincinnati is known for winning.

There is only one QB in franchise history to lead your team to three straight playoffs...Andy Dalton. Where is the love?

I'm pretty sure our Defense should take the Lion share of credit for reaching the Playoffs the last 3 Seasons. In fact the Bengals win in spite of Dalton as he cost the team 4 games last Season. (@Chicago- 2 interceptions, @Cleveland- 2 fumbles 1 int, @Miami- 1 fumble 3 interceptions, @Baltimore- 3 interceptions)

 

[augustisback003]

Brees had an average rookie season, struggled in his 2nd season, and then tore the league up in his 3rd season. But the Chargers had already drafted Rivers after Brees struggles in his 2nd season (you know, the all vaunted sophomore slump).

And Dalton was WAY ahead of the vast majority of QB's in their rookie season. This was well known before he was even drafted. His trajectory is and was never going to be like that of typical QB's. There's just no comparison to him and Brees or Peyton, who again, by the end of their 3rd season were well established.

Um, no! Drew Brees 3rd year was terrible as he went 2-9 before getting hurt. That was the reason the Chargers drafted Rivers the following year in his 4th Season, not his 2nd, as he was considered injury prone with a weak arm. Brees' career didn't take off until he started playing in the Dome.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I'm pretty sure our Defense should take the Lion share of credit for reaching the Playoffs the last 3 Seasons. In fact the Bengals win in spite of Dalton as he cost the team 4 games last Season. (@Chicago- 2 interceptions, @Cleveland- 2 fumbles 1 int, @Miami- 1 fumble 3 interceptions, @Baltimore- 3 interceptions)

What about Flacco last year, the great, all seeing one who has won a SB?

Against Buffalo: 2 TD's / 5 INT's / 14.5 QBR (LOSS)
Against Chicago: 1 TD / 2 INT's / 37.6 QBR (LOSS)
Against New England: 0 TD's / 2 INT's / 10.8 QBR (LOSS)
Against Cincinnati: 1 TD / 3 INT's / 13.1 QBR (LOSS)

I mean every QB, good or bad, has some stinker of games. Flacco is widely considered a much better QB than Dalton, yet he has some real shit games as well. Shit happens.

Now that Flacco doesn't have quite the same quality defense, he is being exposed a bit too, the same I am sure Dalton would be regarding wins and making it to the playoffs, if he didn't have his defense the last few years.

Flacco lost his running game, and his numbers suffered greatly for it last year. If you give Dalton a really solid run offense, I bet his numbers look even better, because he will not see as much of that pressure you guys are talking about, because they will have to hold an extra backer in for runs, or decide is this the time they pass and I drop that extra guy into coverage. A really solid run game will change the entire landscape of this offense.

 

[futballiscool]

The point you missed was that, while every QB struggles under pressure none do so to the extent of Dalton. And while you posted Manning's and Brees' numbers under pressure you failed to list Dalton's QBR of 11.1% which is a drop of 81.4% from his non pressured QBR. Which is the WORST in the League.

"There are several good passers just below Dalton who suffer dramatically with pressure in their face, like Peyton Manning and Drew Brees"


He's admitting that if his chart continued it would include Brees and Manning within the next few QBs. The word "several" makes me think there were others top flight who would score poorly on his contrived metric. Probably Philip Rivers.. maybe Matt Ryan and Tom Brady. He's even admitting what he did. He selectively stopped at Dalton because the next group of QBs included a bunch of stars

Also Dalton's not the worst in the League on his chart.

Dalton's bad when he's getting hit by an unaccounted for blitzer. That's a ridiculously small sample size of plays and every nonathletic pocket QB is going to struggle under those conditions.

Dalton's a middle of the road QB at this stage of his career. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[augustisback003]

What about Flacco last year, the great, all seeing one who has won a SB?

Against Buffalo: 2 TD's / 5 INT's / 14.5 QBR (LOSS)
Against Chicago: 1 TD / 2 INT's / 37.6 QBR (LOSS)
Against New England: 0 TD's / 2 INT's / 10.8 QBR (LOSS)
Against Cincinnati: 1 TD / 3 INT's / 13.1 QBR (LOSS)

I mean every QB, good or bad, has some stinker of games. Flacco is widely considered a much better QB than Dalton, yet he has some real shit games as well. Shit happens.

Now that Flacco doesn't have quite the same quality defense, he is being exposed a bit too, the same I am sure Dalton would be regarding wins and making it to the playoffs, if he didn't have his defense the last few years.

Flacco lost his running game, and his numbers suffered greatly for it last year. If you give Dalton a really solid run offense, I bet his numbers look even better, because he will not see as much of that pressure you guys are talking about, because they will have to hold an extra backer in for runs, or decide is this the time they pass and I drop that extra guy into coverage. A really solid run game will change the entire landscape of this offense.

And? What about Flacco? I could care less about the guy! He's not a Bengal therefore he's not my concern. I'm glad he has bad games, I hope they all come against the Bengals.

 

[DanBengalfan]

I think Flacco allows us to be optimistic about a mediocre QB actually being successful.

 

[cincygrad]

Why is Flacco a comparison?

Isn't it widely acknowledged that the Ravens made a huge mistake in giving him such a mega-deal?

I think the only good thing that came from the Dalton deal is that his contract was actually favorable to the team..... Unlike the Flacco deal that keeps him there at a high price forever.

 

[flamingrey]

"There are several good passers just below Dalton who suffer dramatically with pressure in their face, like Peyton Manning and Drew Brees"


He's admitting that if his chart continued it would include Brees and Manning within the next few QBs. The word "several" makes me think there were others top flight who would score poorly on his contrived metric. Probably Philip Rivers.. maybe Matt Ryan and Tom Brady. He's even admitting what he did. He selectively stopped at Dalton because the next group of QBs included a bunch of stars

Also Dalton's not the worst in the League on his chart.

Dalton's bad when he's getting hit by an unaccounted for blitzer. That's a ridiculously small sample size of plays and every nonathletic pocket QB is going to struggle under those conditions.

Dalton's a middle of the road QB at this stage of his career. Nothing more, nothing less.

You're taking one piece of the entire argument and extrapolating it to the entire argument.

 

[flamingrey]

Um, no! Drew Brees 3rd year was terrible as he went 2-9 before getting hurt. That was the reason the Chargers drafted Rivers the following year in his 4th Season, not his 2nd, as he was considered injury prone with a weak arm. Brees' career didn't take off until he started playing in the Dome.

Sure, if you're counting the 1 game he played as a sub in his rookie season as his first year.

As I mentioned, Brees had a terrific season in his 3rd season (4th for you). And that was before he started playing in the Dome.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

And? What about Flacco? I could care less about the guy! He's not a Bengal therefore he's not my concern. I'm glad he has bad games, I hope they all come against the Bengals.

There are a lot of people who think Flacco is a good QB, and the year he signed his mega deal, he was considered a top 5 QB by several pundits.

My point I was making is....even good QB's can look bad when they lose the pieces around them.

Flacco had a top 5 defense. Flacco had a near top 5 running game. Flacco had a decent WR core with Boldin heading it up and a healthy Pitta man. haha

All I am saying, even good QB's have their flaws exposed moreso when the rest of the talent around them starts to diminish.

Give Dalton a really solid running game to offset that talent at WR and TE, and I bet everyone of his stats improve: completion percent / yards / TD's / INT (go down) / QBR / wins (perhaps even a playoff win).

The Texans beat the hell out of us those first two playoff games due to our inability to stop their run game, which then opened up the pass play even more.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Sure, if you're counting the 1 game he played as a sub in his rookie season as his first year.

As I mentioned, Brees had a terrific season in his 3rd season (4th for you). And that was before he started playing in the Dome.

You can't really count the one game where he was a sub of course, you are right, but in terms of knowledge and maturity, wouldn't you have to say that he had that full rookie year to learn the playbook, get his feet under him in practice, work with the coaches, etc?

There are a reason several teams decide to sit their rookie QB's, and that is to give them a headstart into their career with knowledge, withouyt the pressure of being a rookie starting QB in the NFL. Some rookies get to play. No one has decided yet, what is the best route for rookie QB's. I would imagine it is based on team situation and the player himself.

Dalton was thrown into the fire, struggled, but actually all in all had a good rookie season. He learned under fire and still got 9 wins.

Dalton over the last 3 years...

2011: 516 ATT / 3398 yards / 6.6 avg / 20 TD / 13 INT (1 every 39.69 att) / 80.4 QBR (9 wins)
2012: 528 ATT / 3669 yards / 6.9 avg / 27 TD / 16 INT (1 every 33 att) / 87.4 QBR (10 wins)
2013: 586 ATT / 4293 yards / 7.3 avg / 33 TD / 20 INT (1 every 34.13 att) / 88.8 QBR (11 wins)

If you look at his stats, every thing has gone up, which also includes his attempts. He has improved his yards, avg per attempt, TD's and his QBR. Of course his INT's have gone up, but so has his attempts per season. If you notice, his INT rate has not really gone up, but rather stayed about the same from 2012 to 2013, all that really changed was his attempts.

Dalton is improving each year statistically. What we need to do is make him more efficient and not make him chuck the ball 580 times, but rather put it around 480-500 times, because we can depend on our run game more. You do that, I bet the only thing that drops off from 2013 is Dalton's INT rate, everything else will stay about the same except his QBR which will go up dramatically.

 

[ckhokie]

JFC we're not even to the 2nd preseason game and Crash is already blindly defending Dalton. Who cares about stats he runs up against shitty teams? You love to post passing stats, but then love to ignore stats such as those posted in the OP. Dalton is terrible against pressure. That is a fact that is statistically backed up. Stop cherry picking.

Are you going to deflect more criticism to Flacco more? Going to complain about the Bengals not having enough offensive firepower? Come on.