and so it begins

[skinsdad62]

so are we saying lets go to colt and dump KC after the season and build the defense ? and will colt actually have garcon and djax ?

next years wr could be crowder , grant dox harris and ross . a lot less formidable

and what does that say if you let a qb go who has developed, put up good numbers and then when he wants market value you send him packing looking for the next great white whale

if you dump KC this rebuild gets set back 2-3 years in my opinion because we dont have a qb answer in FA or realistically in the draft

 

[ehb5]

Hmm.. let's review the losses/ties & see where the blame lies.

Steelers game - they were going to lose this game regardless & a coaching decision to put Breeland on Brown was a major factor. Not Cousins fault & they would not have won with McCoy.

Cowboys game - clearly Cousins was a huge factor in this defeat. Not sure if they would have won w/ McCoy but perhaps.

Lions game - clearly not Cousins fault & he put them in position to win. Don't totally blame the defense but some poor defensive coaching down the stretch played a huge factor. Fumble by Jones was also a huge factor. McCoy would not have won this game.

Bengals tie - Again - Cousins did everything he could to put them in position to win. Gruden & co. made the terrible 4th & short call that cost them at least 3 pts. Hopkins missed the easy FG that cost them the win (not blaming the kid for anything - he is one of their better players - just pointing out facts). McCoy definitely would not have won this game.

Do fans understand that McCoy is a career backup? There is a reason why he has been on numerous teams. Don't get me wrong - he is just rt to be the Skins backup & perhaps fill in for a few games. However - this idea that he could lead this team on a playoff run is very flawed. He has had his chance in DC in elsewhere & come up short.


I have no doubt that Gruden & McVay are 100% behind Cousins. It is perhaps only SM that has doubts & I really think that even he is now on board with Cousins. I somehow think that this is just wishful thinking on your part since you never liked Cousins. I had numerous doubts about him in the recent past, but I am now seeing that he is their best hope for the future.

[/QUOTE]

Yea I mean maybe you could argue for $2 mil youd rather have Colt next year than Kirk for $23 Mil or whatever itll be but even if you argue that Im not sure how youd get to Colt being just straight up BETTER than Kirk. Im as on the fence as anybody on here with regards to Kirk but Colt is NOT better.

 

[ehb5]

so are we saying lets go to colt and dump KC after the season and build the defense ? and will colt actually have garcon and djax ?

next years wr could be crowder , grant dox harris and ross . a lot less formidable

and what does that say if you let a qb go who has developed, put up good numbers and then when he wants market value you send him packing looking for the next great white whale

if you dump KC this rebuild gets set back 2-3 years in my opinion because we dont have a qb answer in FA or realistically in the draft

Just to play devils advocate - and Im not saying we should do this - but I think the idea with letting Kirk walk is just that its admitting he isnt good enough for us to win in the next 2-3 years anyway. So sure we'd be worse probably right off the bat but long term it might be a better idea (and its possible it wouldnt set us back right away though probably a little unlikely).

Again - not saying thats what we should do necessarily.

 

[j_y19]

I can't believe we are having a discussion if Colt could have the same production as Kirk. Cmon, man. Not that Kirk is an all pro, but Colt has never been more than a backup. He's got a noodle for an arm. If DJax is frustrated right now because we don't hit him long enough, he would be apoplectic with Colt behind center. Colt is a fine back up and can do well in a pinch. But if he had to play day in and day out, DCs would relish the thought of playing us, especially since our running game is anemic. If Colt had to throw 30+ times a game, every game, we would easily be ini the bottom tier of offenses in the league.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Just to play devils advocate - and Im not saying we should do this - but I think the idea with letting Kirk walk is just that its admitting he isnt good enough for us to win in the next 2-3 years anyway. So sure we'd be worse probably right off the bat but long term it might be a better idea (and its possible it wouldnt set us back right away though probably a little unlikely).

Again - not saying thats what we should do necessarily.

Exactly what games are you watching? Cousins has been playing very well lately - as well as most QBs in the NFL. As I have stated numerous times my only issue w/ him is avoiding killer mistakes like he made against the Ravens & Eagles. Even in those cases his ability to rebound was very impressive.

If you take the alternate route you are 1. sacrificing the team for several yrs when they appear to be built to make a serious run as soon as next season 2. banking on getting a very good QB in the draft (crap shoot at best - for every Wentz there is an RG3 or similar). I think that overall this team is on the rt track & I don't want to see them push it back several more years in an attempt to hope that they find the perfect QB. I think that Cousins is more than fine.

 

[ehb5]

Exactly what games are you watching? Cousins has been playing very well lately - as well as most QBs in the NFL. As I have stated numerous times my only issue w/ him is avoiding killer mistakes like he made against the Ravens & Eagles. Even in those cases his ability to rebound was very impressive.

If you take the alternate route you are 1. sacrificing the team for several yrs when they appear to be built to make a serious run as soon as next season 2. banking on getting a very good QB in the draft (crap shoot at best - for every Wentz there is an RG3 or similar). I think that overall this team is on the rt track & I don't want to see them push it back several more years in an attempt to hope that they find the perfect QB. I think that Cousins is more than fine.

What?

I didnt even say anything about how hes playing...

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Ehb5 - sorry didn't notice your statement about you playing devils' advocate. Still - don't see any reason why they need to look for another starting QB at this time. I also don't believe that the Redskins organization feels this way at all. It is just certain folks at the WP just trying to stir things up again.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

What?

I didnt even say anything about how hes playing...

OK - maybe I read too much into this. However - stating things like he just won't be good enough in the next 2-3 years (granted you are playing devil's advocate) would suggest that he is not playing good enough rt now. What else could it be based upon?

 

[ehb5]

OK - maybe I read too much into this. However - stating things like he just won't be good enough in the next 2-3 years (granted you are playing devil's advocate) would suggest that he is not playing good enough rt now. What else could it be based upon?

Like you said I was really trying to play devils advocate. Granted I did this because its something I spent a lot of time arguing for for a while last year. Obviously Kirk is way better than Colt but if Kirk isnt good enough to win a SB (not saying he is or isnt) than it doesnt make sense to give him $60 mil guaranteed or something when I can pay Colt McCoy for a year at $3 mil. Obviously this is not an ideal situation - it means we're getting worse at the most important position on the team and that Kirk isnt good enough - both of those would be shitty realities to face.

As for how Cousins is doing - I think hes playing better than last year honestly. I dont want to see him go for the exact reasons I just said. It sets us back in the immediate future most likely. BUT I also think we have to be careful not to get overexcited about solid play at QB. I dont think Alex Smith and Andy Dalton and Ryan Tannehill and Sam Bradford are good enough to win a SB unless you have a LOADED team. Now Cousins is probably better than all of them but my point is hes in that awkward stage of not great and not meh. I kinda think we have to keep him at this point but lets not act like hes some elite QB right now. I still think hes in that 10th to 16th ish range - so the question becomes can we win a SB with that? (Keeping in mind that Garcon, DJax, and Reed could all be gone very soon)

 

[cowboycolors]

just look at how Bellicheck traded away their all-pro LB Collins ...

With all respect Krush SM is not in the same discussion as BB as a GM and I despise BB except for his ability to build a winner

if the Team lets KC walk now it will set you guys back at least 3 years maybe more. QB is the heart and soul of a football team and they don't exactly grow on trees in the backyard. shoot look at Jerry jones he was gifted Aikman and fell backwards into Romo and maybe we have found the future in Prescott but from Aikman ending to Romo it was a parade of no good to journeyman QB till Romo and say what you will but Romo was pretty good till he got hurt.

You guys know well enough about the QB carousel in DC its been a long time since the Redskins have had a really good QB for 3 years in a row. Making a mistake on KC will hurt the franchise if your wrong but so will abandoning him over $$$ and chasing the elusive Next great QB.

That's like trying to land a 20 pound bass on your daughters pink Barbie fishing pole. Not saying it cant be done but Im betting against it 99 out of 100

Will be interesting to see what SM and company do in the off season

jmho

 

[skinsdad62]

Just to play devils advocate - and Im not saying we should do this - but I think the idea with letting Kirk walk is just that its admitting he isnt good enough for us to win in the next 2-3 years anyway. So sure we'd be worse probably right off the bat but long term it might be a better idea (and its possible it wouldnt set us back right away though probably a little unlikely).

Again - not saying thats what we should do necessarily.

well what qb do we draft ? what FA do we go for ? what trade do we make ? there is Romo and cutler

 

[gkekoa]

via Imgflip Meme Generator

 

[Breed]

Cousins is responsible for red zone issues? LOL. This one falls squarely on Gruden & McVay .

I disagree.There's enough blame to go around. Gruden/McVay, Jones, but KC shares in the blame as well. I'd give him the majority of personally.

At present the Skins/Cousins rank 31st in red zone quarterback rating.

Quarterback Rating in Red Zone: 2016 NFL Season

Game by game breakdown of red zone scoring is as follows......
Pit 1/4
Dal 2/6
NYG 0/4
Cle 4/5
Bal 0/1
Phi 3/5
Der 2/3
Cin 1/4

For a grand total of 13/32 or slightly over 40%. Good news is the Skins are moving the ball as evidenced by the frequent trips to the red zone. They've also gotten better at scoring red zone TDs as the season has gone on.

I also agree with Sty far as KC failing to make plays, not just red zone plays, that were available, some of which were wide open (On his INT trying to hit Reed, VD was wide open pretty much from the snap of the ball in the Pitt game and scores with ease on a decent pass an example) Doers anyone have the Skins/Bengals game recorded? Cuz I think the latest one was in that game. On 3rd n 7 from the Cincy 45 yd ln on their first PT possession. KC opted to go to JC on a deep out or crossing route of some kind to the left sideline. and missed him At the same time though Grant was running straight up the on the left side and looked uncovered. Now maybe Grant's man peeled off and went to JC, I dunno. I accidentally deleted the game last night.

All that said. I'm in favor of retaining KC despite whatever concerns I hold at this present time. The caveat being, I wanna see continued improvement in the red zone from KC and a win a minimum of 5 games.

 

[Krusheasy]

 

[Krusheasy]

You guys know well enough about the QB carousel in DC its been a long time since the Redskins have had a really good QB for 3 years in a row. Making a mistake on KC will hurt the franchise if your wrong but so will abandoning him over $$$ and chasing the elusive Next great QB.

i agree with all your points ...

but the organization should not be making decisions out of fear.

Scott has a number in his head ... a line in the sand that he is not going to cross.

If Cousins demands 30mil per, and the Jets were willing to pony up ... the Redskins would not match that unreasonable offer.

Sure, starting over at that position would be a huge negative ... & I hope they can get a deal done that can make everyone happy.

 

[Stymietee]

Nonsense!! There were plenty of plays in these games where both Kirk and McVay/Gruden could have done much better offensively. I'll go back and review them to better point out where these missed opportunities were. Attacking the messenger is of no consequence to me, but to be clear, I see Kirk as a very decent QB who's longevity is certain in the NFL barring injury. Where we part is in seeing his role in accomplishing the ultimate goal. So tell me honestly, if you were managing this team and your stated public vision was to be in constant upgrade mode, why would that not be true for your QB who at his best, has the ability to get you into the playoffs, but has major questions as to whether he will ever be the guy that hoists the SB trophy? That is the ultimate goal isn't it?


So I guess that you know football better than Terry Bradshaw. Bradshaw stated on Sun that Cousins is a very good QB who very likely can lead his team to the SB one day.

Please do tell - besides the Cowboys game which game would McCoy have provided them with a chance to undo the loss and make it a win. Let me give you a hint - none of them! You will no doubt find some way to counter this since you have an agenda & again don't like Cousins (call it attacking the messenger - the fact is that you are still butt hurt over RG3 - who once again ended the season early - & don't like Cousins).

The goal should be to find stability at QB. You don't keep trying to upgrade the position because in most cases you will just be spinning your wheels and delaying any true success. As a Redskins fan you should be highly aware of this. Please try and view this objectively. I am not stating this as a Cousins lover since - again - I had my doubts about the guy until recently & actually advocated going in another direction on several occasions.

For the record T Bradshaw is essentially as much a spectator as you or I, therefore his opinion is no more or less valuable. Football is not a science, but merely a game, which anyone with the opportunity to learn it can be considered a highly knowledgeable connoisseur of the same.

Here is the short list of things that a top 5 QB by salary do not do. I know that you want to minimize what he does poorly and maximize his strengths. Pretty sure Colt could have done the same if not better under the same circumstances. Honestly I have no agenda other than to not be willing to overvalue our guy and right now paying Kirk top 5 type money because as you've stated, for "stability" just won't cut it.

In a 27-23 Loss to Dallas:

7:02 mark of the first Qtr, misses JC wide open for a TD...result punt

:43 second mark 1st Qtr. misses Djax for what would have been minimally a 12 yard gain, instead hitting Claiborn who misses pick.

11:49 mark 2nd Qtr underthrows wide open PG at the 14 yardline from their 34 yardline.

9:15 mark 2nd Qtr: overthrows likely TD to DJax...result punt.
Too many more to list but you get the point
__________________________________________________________________________
In a 20-17 Loss to Detroit

11:52 mark of 1st Qtr: Overthrows long pass to PG close to FG range...result punt

5:27 mark 3rd Qtr: misses deep pass to RG

3:22 mark 3rd Qtr fumbles after tripping at their 35 yard line

9:39 mark near pick saved by RG

Game on the line 16 seconds to go 4th Qtr underthrows PG at 47 yardline
Game on the line 10 seconds to go 4th Qtr near pick at their 30 yardline

This was a game where our offensive passing efficiency SHOULD have had a banner day. Kirk struggled as did McVay and Gruden.
_________________________________________________________________________________________

BTW: Top 5 QB's score TD's in the red zone consistently, so Kirk, who had a good game against Cincy also failed to do what top 5 QB's do when it counted most.

You can argue all you want to, but these are facts!

If the brain trust believe that they can get comparable value elsewhere, we're supporters of this team and will just have to live with that. Kirk is a pretty good QB, this has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with that other guy. Please try to stay on message as I've done, without accusing you of being anything other than another follower of this team.

 

[Stymietee]

Why are so many here acting as if Kirk Cousins will be the last QB that this team ever has? He won't!! I agree that SM has a plan that involves a number that thus far....and that's key here....THUS FAR, Kirk still needs to make it abundantly clear that replacing him with a talent equal to his own, cannot be done. Personally, I believe that if they are convinced that signing him long term hurts them, then hell, FT him again, draft/acquire the guy that they want and believe to have a better upside and get him ready while Kirk does his thing at 24M.

BTW: I don't own a Twitter acct, but I hear that members there went crazy with this report by Jones. Can anyone with Twitter confirm this?

 

[Sportster 72]

I found it interesting that no one thought the receivers could be a problem in the red zone. Love DJax but he is a deep threat not a red zone threat. JReed has been a threat but Everyone knows that. Our receivers have struggled to get open in the red zone against zone D.

 

[j_y19]

I found it interesting that no one thought the receivers could be a problem in the red zone. Love DJax but he is a deep threat not a red zone threat. JReed has been a threat but Everyone knows that. Our receivers have struggled to get open in the red zone against zone D.

I actually did point that out in a prior post. Its not that we dont have talented receivers, but for the most part, they are not RZ threats. Doctson may be, but he has got to get on the field. I also believe that play calling the does have a huge role in our red zone struggles. As some one pointed out above, there is no one person or group that is blame free for our issues here.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

I disagree.There's enough blame to go around. Gruden/McVay, Jones, but KC shares in the blame as well. I'd give him the majority of personally.

At present the Skins/Cousins rank 31st in red zone quarterback rating.

Quarterback Rating in Red Zone: 2016 NFL Season

Game by game breakdown of red zone scoring is as follows......
Pit 1/4
Dal 2/6
NYG 0/4
Cle 4/5
Bal 0/1
Phi 3/5
Der 2/3
Cin 1/4

For a grand total of 13/32 or slightly over 40%. Good news is the Skins are moving the ball as evidenced by the frequent trips to the red zone. They've also gotten better at scoring red zone TDs as the season has gone on.

I also agree with Sty far as KC failing to make plays, not just red zone plays, that were available, some of which were wide open (On his INT trying to hit Reed, VD was wide open pretty much from the snap of the ball in the Pitt game and scores with ease on a decent pass an example) Doers anyone have the Skins/Bengals game recorded? Cuz I think the latest one was in that game. On 3rd n 7 from the Cincy 45 yd ln on their first PT possession. KC opted to go to JC on a deep out or crossing route of some kind to the left sideline. and missed him At the same time though Grant was running straight up the on the left side and looked uncovered. Now maybe Grant's man peeled off and went to JC, I dunno. I accidentally deleted the game last night.

All that said. I'm in favor of retaining KC despite whatever concerns I hold at this present time. The caveat being, I wanna see continued improvement in the red zone from KC and a win a minimum of 5 games.

So Cousins is responsible for a coaching staff that appears to not favor the run even near the goal line? Was Cousins also the one calling for all of those silly fade patterns that failed? Sure he can perhaps audible out of some of these, but these mainly fall on the coaching staff.

As for missing plays - sure - all QBs miss plays. If you are going to analyze an entire game w/ the intent of looking for mistakes from any player - including QB - you are going to find your share. I could show you QBs missing wide open targets for almost every team. You have to consider the entire situation in terms pressure & other factors. Lord knows that RG3 missed tons of wide open targets during his tenure. I think that KC does more than adequate in this area & is improving every game. If anyone has a major issue with Cousins performance in the Bengals game than I think that they are nuts. Again - he put them in position to win the game. They failed because of a missed FG & a terrible 4th & short call by Gruden & co.

People need to get past the mindset that the QB is responsible for everything with the offense.