Am I the only one who thinks we could live without Kam?

[seahawksfan234]

I mentioned this in another thread but I'm not sure how much I like re-signing Kam Chancellor.

First let me start off by saying he's a good strong safety, he's big, good against the run and average in coverage (You can only be so good in coverage at his size).

But I really don't think he's worth $6m a year. I say this because I feel like strong safety is not a difficult position to fill and having a downgrade at strong safety is not that huge of a deal. This is also big because with the money Darrelle Revis is getting ($16m a year) that sets the bar for what Richard Sherman is going to get.

If Dashon Goldson gets ~8.5ish per year wouldn't that mean Earl Thomas would get at least $9m?

If Richard Sherman gets $15m (He believes he's better than Revis so this is a conservative estimate), Kam Chancellor is getting $6m and Earl Thomas gets $9m that is a total of $30m locked in defensive backs.

NFL cap is $123m. Am I the only person who is worried by this? In a perfect world we can pay every player on the roster what they deserve, but sadly we have 53 players to pay and not everyone can get a big contract. I just think among the players looking to get paid, Kam Chancellor was one of the more replaceable ones.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

It is easier to replace a strong safety then some of the other spots in the secondary. That is why many thought Kam may be the one the Seahawks replace first. However Kam adds the toughness and fear factor to our defense. Nobody lays a hit like Kam does. I for one am very glad to see him resigned. Earl will get resigned I believe. Browner? Not sure, he's a nice physical corner, but I felt Lane filled him for him nicely. I think it will come down to what his market is.

Now Sherman....he's going to be tough to replace, but he's going to be tough to resign. I don't see the Seahawks giving anyone in the secondary the kind of coin Revis got. His pay is over the top, but he has set the bar higher for resigning shutdown corners. Seahawks are going to try to resign Sherman, if not, a trade for some high draft picks will have to do.

I don't think signing Kam affects signing the other guys. Seahawks FO has a value in mind for each of these players, if they can not resign a player for that amount, they go to plan B.

 

[Mariners_44]

I understand the concern, and we'll see a couple casualties. BB will be forced to take a lower salary or walk. Sidney Rice & Zach Miller will be asked to restructure or walk. Bennett likely comes off of the books and not resigned as does Winfield. Those moves will cover Thomas next year while we fill with one year contracts to do the same the following year to lock up Wilson & Sherman. The core will stay intact, but we will see some move on eventually.

 

[gowazzu02]

I wouldn't be surprised if JS picks a Free safety in Kam's likeness this year.

but our cap situation is fine. Also when RW comes up for renewal with the new tv money, the cap should be up quite a bit.

I think the biggest thing this does is signifies to the core of the team that Seattle will take care of it's home grown talent. Especially after the splashy signing of harvin.

 

[Destroydacre]

No I don't think the Seahawks need Kam. But I'm really glad they kept him. That contract he signed is very cap friendly and I don't think it's going to force the Seahawks to let go of one of their studs when it comes time to re-sign them. Talking about Wilson, Okung, Sherman and Thomas. I do agree that with this signing, Browner is odd man out in the secondary, unless he was to play for well under his market value.

 

[Uhsplit]

Signing Kam proves to the team that if you are all-in, you will be taken care of.
A 5th round pick makes it big. Good for Kam, the team, and the fans.
This is bad news for our opponents.
Go Seahawks.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I feel like the point I'm trying to get across here is not exactly understood.

I have no problem with seeing Kam Chancellor as a Seahawk for the next 5 years. I also think he received market value.

My issue with re-signing Kam Chancellor is since there is a salary cap in the NFL the Seahawks only have so much money to spend and I feel like the $6m per year that will be spent on Kam Chancellor could be used on another player in a harder position to fill (Let's say Earl Thomas).

Sadly in the NFL the salary cap restrictions make it so that you cannot pay every player on the roster $6m per season and if re-signing Kam Chancellor means we have to find a replacement for Earl Thomas or Richard Sherman I'm not in favor of it.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Signing Kam proves to the team that if you are all-in, you will be taken care of.
A 5th round pick makes it big. Good for Kam, the team, and the fans.
This is bad news for our opponents.
Go Seahawks.

But the problem is you cannot "take care" of every player on the roster when there are salary cap restrictions! Paying our successful players market value is no problem with me, but there is only so much cap space and it needs to be allocated wisely.

but our cap situation is fine. Also when RW comes up for renewal with the new tv money, the cap should be up quite a bit.

Our cap situation was fine at the beginning of the offseason. It won't be fine next offseason.

The Seahawks had a rollover of $13m from 2012.

Therefore the Seahawks had an adjusted cap of $136m. The NFL salary cap is $123m.

What does this mean? The Seahawks will have a cap of $123m next season. Their current cap (which they are just about at) is $136m.

At this rate the Seahawks will go into the next offseason with $136m in obligations which is $13m over the $123m cap.

Better enjoy Red Bryant and Sidney Rice. I promise they will not be here next season.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Oh I understand what your saying alright. However, JS and PC have said they have a model put together that maps out the future and it includes keeping core players.

When the off season first started I was sure that the Seahawks were going to continue building thru the draft and use the surplus to resign the core young guys. When posters started mentioning trading for Harvin, I said hell no! LOL! Once you start thinking you got the front office figured out and put it out there, you end up looking kind of foolish. I didn't see these moves coming at all!

However I got a lot faith in this front office. They have shown me they got a plan and it seems to being working just great. I don't mind eating crow when the front office does something I didn't expect.

I been a fan since the day they became a team. IMO this is the best roster, with the best coaching, best front office, and the best owner, since the Seahawks became a NFL team.

So I'm going to show some faith, trust that they know what their doing.

They have a plan....and it's going to work!

 

[seahawksfan234]

It is easier to replace a strong safety then some of the other spots in the secondary. That is why many thought Kam may be the one the Seahawks replace first. However Kam adds the toughness and fear factor to our defense. Nobody lays a hit like Kam does. I for one am very glad to see him resigned. Earl will get resigned I believe. Browner? Not sure, he's a nice physical corner, but I felt Lane filled him for him nicely. I think it will come down to what his market is.

Now Sherman....he's going to be tough to replace, but he's going to be tough to resign. I don't see the Seahawks giving anyone in the secondary the kind of coin Revis got. His pay is over the top, but he has set the bar higher for resigning shutdown corners. Seahawks are going to try to resign Sherman, if not, a trade for some high draft picks will have to do.

I don't think signing Kam affects signing the other guys. Seahawks FO has a value in mind for each of these players, if they can not resign a player for that amount, they go to plan B.

Richard Sherman is the best player on this team.

You can make the case that Russell Wilson is, or maybe Marshawn Lynch but IMO Richard Sherman is the best CB in the NFL. Neither Wilson or Lynch are the best at their positions, which Sherman is. I believe that he and Russell Wilson are the two most important players on this team and Richard Sherman is the 2nd last player I would let leave this team.

I understand the concern, and we'll see a couple casualties. BB will be forced to take a lower salary or walk. Sidney Rice & Zach Miller will be asked to restructure or walk. Bennett likely comes off of the books and not resigned as does Winfield. Those moves will cover Thomas next year while we fill with one year contracts to do the same the following year to lock up Wilson & Sherman. The core will stay intact, but we will see some move on eventually.

Zach Miller will likely be here until his contract expires. His contract was very front loaded and is one of the most team friendly contracts for the next few years.

Here is what I believe his cap number looks like:
2013: $11m
2014: $4.8m + $1m roster bonus ($5.8m cap hit)
2015: $2.8m + $2m roster bonus ($4.8m cap hit)

Sidney Rice and Red Bryant both come to mind as future cap casualties. Although with how well the team is playing there is always the chance they restructure, but it's hard to tell which players will restructure and which players would rather walk. More times than not they walk.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Oh I understand what your saying alright. However, JS and PC have said they have a model put together that maps out the future and it includes keeping core players.

When the off season first started I was sure that the Seahawks were going to continue building thru the draft and use the surplus to resign the core young guys. When poster started mentioning trading for Harvin, I said hell no! LOL! Once you start thinking you got the front office figured out and put it out there, you end up looking kind of foolish. I didn't see these moves coming at all!

However I got a lot faith in this front office. They have shown me they got a plan and it seems to being working just great. I don't mind eating crow when the front office does something I didn't expect.

I been a fan since the day they became a team. IMO this is the best roster, with the best coaching, best front office, and the best owner, since the Seahawks became a NFL team.

So I'm going to show some faith, trust that they know what their doing.

They have a plan....and it's going to work!

Every front office has a plan and sadly every plan involves sacrifices at times.

 

[octagondd]

Could it happen that Earl or Sherm are traded or let go? I guess it would depend on what we get in the drafts and if there are any promising replacements. Carroll is all about competition but how far does that go when the team is near the cap?

 

[dude82]

As harold said, these guys have this planned out for years down the road. I don't think they're gonna go into next off-season looking at the cap situation and go "Oh crap! We overspent last year! We're screwed if we don't do this, this and this". They probably already know who they want to re-sign, when it makes the most sense to re-sign them and how they want to structure each deal so that the cap hits are spread out so they aren't dead in the water in one particular year.

I know that every front office staff of every team in the league goes in with a "plan" and that a lot of those plans don't work out, but this one has gone pretty well so far, so I see no reason to doubt it now. You'll notice that most of the guys they signed this off-season so far they signed to one or two year deals for not much money. They're basically rentals if you want to think of them that way. They'll either be off the books by next off-season, really cheap going into the 2014 season or signed long-term to cap friendly deals that allow the team room to continue re-signing their core players without bumping up against the cap. Too much planning has gone into this for them to sign the core players they want to re-sign and have little left to sign anyone else.

 

[dude82]

I was going to add that I'm sure they also know who they want to restructure if necessary and who they're comfortable with letting go if that player is not willing to sign a cap-friendly deal.

 

[Screamin12th]

could you find another "kam" type player? maybe but that is the risk you take. Kam is a probowl Safety that had a down year because of bone spurs. He also is one of the most feared safeties in the league. Replacing his work ethic, reputation and leadership would be much harder. He will be a top safety in the NFL ( is all ready) for many more years so locking him up doesn't bother me at all. Replacing a player like him would be much harder when you add in all he brings on and OFF the field. we must look at the big picture, not just snip-its. Is he the fastest safety? no but he is one of the hardest hitting. Is he one of the best coverage safety? No but he is one of the best run defending safeties. He fits what PC wants out of his strong safety and finding another one that "FITS" i believe wouldn't be as easy as some might think.

PC and JS are not building a team that follows conventional wisdom, they are doing it their way and need players that fit. Their way has produced a team that has grown each and every year and shows no sign of slowing down. You got to trust in what they are doing because at the rate this team went from 4-12 and old to 11-5 and one of the youngest in the league with even more room to improve is crazy. If they continue on the same path they very well could be a 14-2 type team for many years, not just a flash in the pan type team.

 

[octagondd]

As harold said, these guys have this planned out for years down the road. I don't think they're gonna go into next off-season looking at the cap situation and go "Oh crap! We overspent last year! We're screwed if we don't do this, this and this". They probably already know who they want to re-sign, when it makes the most sense to re-sign them and how they want to structure each deal so that the cap hits are spread out so they aren't dead in the water in one particular year.

I know that every front office staff of every team in the league goes in with a "plan" and that a lot of those plans don't work out, but this one has gone pretty well so far, so I see no reason to doubt it now. You'll notice that most of the guys they signed this off-season so far they signed to one or two year deals for not much money. They're basically rentals if you want to think of them that way. They'll either be off the books by next off-season, really cheap going into the 2014 season or signed long-term to cap friendly deals that allow the team room to continue re-signing their core players without bumping up against the cap. Too much planning has gone into this for them to sign the core players they want to re-sign and have little left to sign anyone else.

Ya, I hear ya about the long term plan stuff. I wish I could have been in the room when PC tells JS that the whole plan they had of a top defense and a tough running game is now slightly changing since they hit the pot-o-gold. I know they had hopes of finding a future franchise QB, but I don't think even they knew that RW would be that guy and at the level he has shown this early. He has the potential to be our own Brady, Manning, Brees. I smile every day thinking about that. In 10 years teams may be wanting their own Wilson. I bet JS gladly re-worked the plan a bit to now include a potentially lethal passing attack. I also still admire that when they came in they focused on building the O-line and not on grabbing a top QB who would then get sacked a record number of times. That is the way to build a team.

 

[dude82]

Ya, I hear ya about the long term plan stuff. I wish I could have been in the room when PC tells JS that the whole plan they had of a top defense and a tough running game is now slightly changing since they hit the pot-o-gold. I know they had hopes of finding a future franchise QB, but I don't think even they knew that RW would be that guy and at the level he has shown this early. He has the potential to be our own Brady, Manning, Brees. I smile every day thinking about that. In 10 years teams may be wanting their own Wilson. I bet JS gladly re-worked the plan a bit to now include a potentially lethal passing attack. I also still admire that when they came in they focused on building the O-line and not on grabbing a top QB who would then get sacked a record number of times. That is the way to build a team.

Sure, there are things within the plan that they didn't expect to happen that probably changed it to a degree, but in terms of the financial aspects of it, I don't think they did anything, even with the unexpected things, to severely screw themselves up cap-wise. They signed too many guys who likely won't be part of the core of the team to short-term, cap-friendly deals and they can continue to do that as they re-sign their core guys in the next 2-4 years.

 

[octagondd]

oh yah, Rice, Miller, these D-line guys on one year deals, restructure some contracts. I think it will all work. I think there could be a surprise in there though at some point.

 

[dude82]

Kam is the enforcer in the defensive backfield. Even if you think the Seahawks placed too much monetary value on him for that, it's clear that they think his play has a lot of football value and psychological value for his teammates. I think that if you look at it that way, it would be hard to argue that they could live without him. Schneider and Carroll clearly didn't think they could.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Looking back at this thread and thought it would be worth bumping now the Thomas and Sherman have been resigned.