AL vs NL

[SlinkyRedfoot]

The NL hasn't had a winning season against the AL since 2003.

The NL went 146-144 in 2013.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

The NL went 146-144 in 2013.

I stand corrected.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

I geeked out for a few minutes. Took a look at the numbers since 2004. Here are the records, the AL winning percentage, and for reference what that percentage looks like across 162 games

Year / AL Wins-NL Wins / AL Winning % / % of 162
2004 / 127-125 / .504 / 82-80
2005 / 136-116 / .540 / 87-75
2006 / 154-98 / .611 / 99-63
2007 / 137-115 / .544 / 88-74
2008 / 149-103 / .591 / 96-66
2009 / 138-114 / .548 / 89-73
2010 / 134-118 / .532 / 86-76
2011 / 131-121 / .520 / 84-78
2012 / 142-110 / .563 / 91-71
2013 / 144-146 / .497 / 80-82
2014 / 163-137 / .543 / 88-74
2015 / 167-133 / .557 / 90-72
2016 / 165-135 / .550 / 89-73
Total / 1,887-1,571 / .546 / 88-74

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Check out 2006 - 154-98. Damn. Equivalent to a 99-win season.

Overall for the past thirteen years, AL has won equivalent to an 88-win season.

 

[JohnU]

I think it is simple... NL strategy is more pitching and small ball, AL is about offense(now of course there are specific teams in both leagues that are opposite of the general league philosophy). Pitching and small ball does not win the regular season, but it is better for the playoffs... Offense wins the regular season...

I buy this. I don't think small ball actually works as well as its proponents claim it does. The defensive shifts make it next to useless as a roster strategy, especially since so many guys strike out as much as they do now. Infield defenses don't give up the bunt much and pitchers are learning to hold runners, except Lester.

Hell, Billy Hamilton is staring at a guy's nostrils when he comes to the plate.

 

[JohnU]

I geeked out for a few minutes. Took a look at the numbers since 2004. Here are the records, the AL winning percentage, and for reference what that percentage looks like across 162 games

Year / AL Wins-NL Wins / AL Winning % / % of 162
2004 / 127-125 / .504 / 82-80
2005 / 136-116 / .540 / 87-75
2006 / 154-98 / .611 / 99-63
2007 / 137-115 / .544 / 88-74
2008 / 149-103 / .591 / 96-66
2009 / 138-114 / .548 / 89-73
2010 / 134-118 / .532 / 86-76
2011 / 131-121 / .520 / 84-78
2012 / 142-110 / .563 / 91-71
2013 / 144-146 / .497 / 80-82
2014 / 163-137 / .543 / 88-74
2015 / 167-133 / .557 / 90-72
2016 / 165-135 / .550 / 89-73
Total / 1,887-1,571 / .546 / 88-74

55 percent is clearly not a blip on the radar.

 

[JohnU]

It would behoove the NL to improve on this mainly because the competitive balance in its own league is skewed by these records.

 

[williewilliejuan]

There's really only one way to determine the best team (and consequently the best league):

Go back 20 years, see what teams have gone to more than three World Series and then see among those teams, which one has the best winning percentage.

The answer is your San Francisco Giants with three Series wins in four trips, for a winning percentage of 75%. Go NL!!

Honorable mentions go to the NY Yankees with four wins in six appearances (67%) and the St. Louis Cardinals with two wins in four appearances (50%)

#science

 

[calsnowskier]

GREAT debate here, guys. This is what I was hoping for...

The AL has basically dominated inter league play, but is has split the WS in the last 20 years (10-10). So it appears, without too much study, that at least the upper tier teams, year to year, are roughly even between the two leagues. So why does the AL dominate interleague?

Looking at 2016 opening day values, the AL had 6 of the top 10 payrolls and 3 of the top 5. That is consistently the case going back at least 10 years or so (2012 was a 5/5 split). So the top teams in the AL are typically spending slightly more, but not to an obscene level.

Who are the chronic "winners"? Yankees, Red Sox, Cardinals, Dodgers and Giants (of course all teams have ups and downs, but I think this is the general class over any extended time frame). Who are the chronic losers? Pirates, Padres, Rockies, Mariners, Brewers, Astros and Rays. No real domination in either of those lists.

So the only REAL difference between the leagues is the DH. Could the rest that the DH position offers to the players play a part in the interleague record? If so, why doesn't that also play a part in the World Series?

 

[JohnU]

So the only REAL difference between the leagues is the DH. Could the rest that the DH position offers to the players play a part in the interleague record? If so, why doesn't that also play a part in the World Series?

I think the World Series is sort of an outlier in this discussion for a couple of reasons. The main one is that teams have to manage their pitching over three series, which is a little tougher to do than over a month against a variety of teams. By the time post-season arrives, the scouting reports have to be mind-numbing.

Honesty, the worst team in the league is capable of winning a best-of-7 about once every 5 tries.

With few exceptions, when it comes down to the post-season, all the teams that qualify are probably within an inch of each other in terms of talent so a bad hop or an ill-advised fastball on a 3-2 count and ... pfft.

But we all know this shit anyway, so that's not exactly new turf to plow, except for "fans" who think leagues win pennants.

That established, and given the fact that the AL has clearly dominated interleague play, does the NL continue to shove its head up its ass on the DH? Without much science here, I think we all agree that the DH has made a major difference in the way the game is played. Even if you don't like it, it's not going away and pretending that the NL has more "strategy" is just another barstool conversation.

So we are back to that.

Slinky's stats on W-L Pct. over the last decade shows this isn't a freak of math.

 

[calsnowskier]

With few exceptions, when it comes down to the post-season, all the teams that qualify are probably within an inch of each other in terms of talent so a bad hop or an ill-advised fastball on a 3-2 count and ... pfft.

Or an ill-timed error by a perpetual GG-winner in the middle if a no-hitter...

 

[Chewbaccer]

Easily the NL.

Only fags and ADD retards like the DH.

 

[calsnowskier]

I think the World Series is sort of an outlier in this discussion for a couple of reasons. The main one is that teams have to manage their pitching over three series, which is a little tougher to do than over a month against a variety of teams. By the time post-season arrives, the scouting reports have to be mind-numbing.

Honesty, the worst team in the league is capable of winning a best-of-7 about once every 5 tries.

With few exceptions, when it comes down to the post-season, all the teams that qualify are probably within an inch of each other in terms of talent so a bad hop or an ill-advised fastball on a 3-2 count and ... pfft.

But we all know this shit anyway, so that's not exactly new turf to plow, except for "fans" who think leagues win pennants.

That established, and given the fact that the AL has clearly dominated interleague play, does the NL continue to shove its head up its ass on the DH? Without much science here, I think we all agree that the DH has made a major difference in the way the game is played. Even if you don't like it, it's not going away and pretending that the NL has more "strategy" is just another barstool conversation.

So we are back to that.

Slinky's stats on W-L Pct. over the last decade shows this isn't a freak of math.

I definitely disagree that the strategy is the same in both leagues. As I mentioned earlier, roster construction is much more critical up and down the 25 in the NL than in the AL. And pinch hitting is more critical to account for the lack of a hitter in the 9-hole.

And let's not forget that when NL rules are played against AL rules in the same game, the NL is undefeated at the MLB level.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

55 percent is clearly not a blip on the radar.

yes it is when the AL wins 12-1 season wise....

 

[JohnU]

yes it is when the AL wins 12-1 season wise....

I think you misunderstood my comment.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I think you misunderstood my comment.

your right... i took it that you said it wasn't a big deal... read it again, to see you meant the opposite... but still my point is valid even if it wasn't responding to anything...

also did you know, DH hitters are better than pitchers at offense??

 

[Chewbaccer]

The Tigers have one of the best interleague records.


But they're 1-8 in October Interleague since '84.

I thoroughly enjoyed that 1-0 shutout the Braves had over the Tigers to close out Turner Field.

 

[Chewbaccer]

In the history of interleague play, there are only 4 NL teams who have a record above .500. Anyone know them?

Just a complete guess, so all 4 are probably wrong:

Braves, Mets, Cardinals, Giants?

 

[JohnU]

also did you know, DH hitters are better than pitchers at offense??

I tried to find some evidence that proves this but I can't find any AL pitchers who ever bat.

 

[calsnowskier]

also did you know, DH hitters are better than pitchers at offense??

The one head-to-head account to truly Judge this on shows differently...

June 30, 2016 San Francisco Giants at Oakland Athletics Play by Play and Box Score | Baseball-Reference.com

Pitcher - 1-4, 2B, 1 R, 1 K
DH - 1-4, 2B, 1 R, 2 K

And the DH-using lineup was clearly hampered by the DH, getting held to 6 fewer runs.