A good question

[msgkings322]

Friend of mine asked me the other day, has any World Series winning team proceeded to suck as much as the 2013 Giants the next year?

I of course mentioned the 2004 Marlins, but they deliberately got rid of everybody on the team, with no intention of winning the next year.

So I wonder, has any team that actually came back with most of their WS winner intact proceeded to suck as bad as we do? ANy answer would have to involve injuries, as ours has, but man we just SUUUUUCK.

So putting it out to the board, anyone remember this kind of post WS win collapse from any other team?

 

[Giantsmojo]

Cardinals 2007 (78-84)
Angels 2003 (78-85)
Toronto *1994 (55-60)
Reds 1991 (74-88)

 

[msgkings322]

Cardinals 2007 (78-84)
Angels 2003 (78-85)
Toronto *1994 (55-60)
Reds 1991 (74-88)

Thanks, exactly what I was wondering.

We're not getting to 78 wins this year, but 74 is an outside shot.
ANd like your asterisk notes, Toronto didn't have a chance to get some wins late in the year. But their 55-60 percentage is similar to the first 2 on the list.

 

[calsnowskier]

91 Reds were without Davis, though. VERY similar to the '11 Giants.

Eric the Red gave his career for that catch.

 

[msgkings322]

91 Reds were without Davis, though. VERY similar to the '11 Giants.

Eric the Red gave his career for that catch.

We won 86 games in 2011, we still had historically great pitching and apparently more heart than this pile of suck we see now.

 

[calsnowskier]

We won 86 games in 2011, we still had historically great pitching and apparently more heart than this pile of suck we see now.

This season shows the kind of grind a baseball season is. A team starts getting on its heals, and there is no correcting it.

So what was the catalyst this season. The inside-the-park HR or the Toronto series?

 

[tzill]

This season shows the kind of grind a baseball season is. A team starts getting on its heals, and there is no correcting it.

So what was the catalyst this season. The inside-the-park HR or the Toronto series?

And when those heals are teetering on a peddle stool....

 

[msgkings322]

This season shows the kind of grind a baseball season is. A team starts getting on its heals, and there is no correcting it.

So what was the catalyst this season. The inside-the-park HR or the Toronto series?

Well, that's what I meant kinda, by the word 'heart'

In 2011 Posey goes down and they kept grinding...I guess because the pitching held up. We couldn't score any runs then either but the pitchers never quit and we won a lot of 2-1 ballgames. This year when the offense struggled (injuries, Panda suck, LF suck) the pitching did too (Cain chose this year to struggle, Vogey was bad and then hurt, ZIto was godawful, Timmy was bad until mid year, etc)

The Toronto series kind of started the whole thing I guess, but even before that the pitching was struggling and the offense was surprisingly potent. Then the injuries came and both sucked.

Shows you how important pitching is

 

[moxie]

1989 Dodgers 77-83 ?

 

[msgkings322]

1989 Dodgers 77-83 ?

Another good one, thanks...the other poster stopped at 1991 so I bet there's other examples if you keep going back.

Still, 77 wins would be a miracle for our bunch this year

 

[Stokes1931]

Well, that's what I meant kinda, by the word 'heart'

In 2011 Posey goes down and they kept grinding...I guess because the pitching held up. We couldn't score any runs then either but the pitchers never quit and we won a lot of 2-1 ballgames. This year when the offense struggled (injuries, Panda suck, LF suck) the pitching did too (Cain chose this year to struggle, Vogey was bad and then hurt, ZIto was godawful, Timmy was bad until mid year, etc)

The Toronto series kind of started the whole thing I guess, but even before that the pitching was struggling and the offense was surprisingly potent. Then the injuries came and both sucked.

Shows you how important pitching is

Just beating this drum again, up to the Toronto series, the Giants were hitting .300 with RISP (110/366) with 21 homers, and were scoring 4.76 runs per game.

Since then, the Giants have been hitting .221 with RISP, averaging 3.31 runs per game.

Up to the Toronto series, the pitching was giving up 4.57 runs per game. Since then, they have averaged 4.39 runs per game.

The pitching has not been up to Giants' standards, but the hitting, especially the situational hitting, has been loathesome.

 

[moxie]

Another good one, thanks...the other poster stopped at 1991 so I bet there's other examples if you keep going back.

Still, 77 wins would be a miracle for our bunch this year

I just like to carry that number around in my head when I see all the Dodger "fans" braying like jackasses about how far the Giants have fallen. "From first to worst" blah, blah, blah. Granted, the division were sliced a little differently in 89, but the Dodgers still sucked that year. The year that what? The Giants made it to the big dance. hahaha!

Man, I hate the Dodgers.

 

[msgkings322]

Just beating this drum again, up to the Toronto series, the Giants were hitting .300 with RISP (110/366) with 21 homers, and were scoring 4.76 runs per game.

Since then, the Giants have been hitting .221 with RISP, averaging 3.31 runs per game.

Up to the Toronto series, the pitching was giving up 4.57 runs per game. Since then, they have averaged 4.39 runs per game.

The pitching has not been up to Giants' standards, but the hitting, especially the situational hitting, has been loathesome.

That's a pretty telling stat, it's your time to shine!

The question then is WHY did the RISP hitting drop so much? Just randomness?
Also to me it is one more reason why it doesn't matter who the hitting coach is...same guy all year.

 

[calsnowskier]

That's a pretty telling stat, it's your time to shine!

The question then is WHY did the RISP hitting drop so much? Just randomness?
Also to me it is one more reason why it doesn't matter who the hitting coach is...same guy all year.

Sir Bam Bam may not have done anything wrong, but if the players don't listen to him, than he has to go.

Granted, NONE of us know that that is the case. Maybe all the players love him and listen intently to every word he says.

But SOMEONEs head needs to roll for this season...

 

[Stokes1931]

Sir Bam Bam may not have done anything wrong, but if the players don't listen to him, than he has to go.

Granted, NONE of us know that that is the case. Maybe all the players love him and listen intently to every word he says.

But SOMEONEs head needs to roll for this season...

I nominate Eli Whiteside as the head to roll.

 

[msgkings322]

Sir Bam Bam may not have done anything wrong, but if the players don't listen to him, than he has to go.

Granted, NONE of us know that that is the case. Maybe all the players love him and listen intently to every word he says.

But SOMEONEs head needs to roll for this season...

Well sure, he probably will get the scapegoat firing, that's to me almost the most important function the hitting coach has, giving ownership a guy to fire to look like they are 'doing something'.

But my point is, were they listening in the early part of the year and then stopped listening? Kind of doubt that. Something caused the RISP to go from .300 to .221, or maybe nothing did and that's the randomness of baseball. Baseball has more of that kind of variation than the other sports, it's a game of failure.

Also note that the difference between .300 and .221 is a couple of hits a week. But that also could be a win a week more, and that gets you in the playoffs.

 

[MarcoPolo]

I just like to carry that number around in my head when I see all the Dodger "fans" braying like jackasses about how far the Giants have fallen. "From first to worst" blah, blah, blah. Granted, the division were sliced a little differently in 89, but the Dodgers still sucked that year. The year that what? The Giants made it to the big dance. hahaha!

Man, I hate the Dodgers.

I have a much more enjoyable story to tell my Dodger "friends".

1988 the Dodgers won their last WS. Since then : NO NL champions, NO WS rings.

Since 1988 the GIANTS have won two NL championships (without winning the WS) and two WS rings.

Read 'em and weep, bitch.

 

[msgkings322]

I have a much more enjoyable story to tell my Dodger "friends".

1988 the Dodgers won their last WS. Since then : NO NL champions, NO WS rings.

Since 1988 the GIANTS have won two NL championships (without winning the WS) and two WS rings.

Read 'em and weep, bitch.

Better use that a lot here soon, might be out of date come October. Dodgers look legit, and they have the pitching 'horses' to do damage in short playoff series (Kershaw, Greinke, Ryu). Something Pittsburgh and Atlanta, for example, don't really have. They have pitching strength and depth but for 162 games not necessarily for 5 or 7. As we all know as Giants fans, in the playoffs the pitching rules.

 

[calsnowskier]

Well sure, he probably will get the scapegoat firing, that's to me almost the most important function the hitting coach has, giving ownership a guy to fire to look like they are 'doing something'.

But my point is, were they listening in the early part of the year and then stopped listening? Kind of doubt that. Something caused the RISP to go from .300 to .221, or maybe nothing did and that's the randomness of baseball. Baseball has more of that kind of variation than the other sports, it's a game of failure.

Also note that the difference between .300 and .221 is a couple of hits a week. But that also could be a win a week more, and that gets you in the playoffs.

Lets assume they were.

Sir Bam Bam was telling them to do "A" at the beginning of the year. The team was doing great.

Then all hell broke loose.

A few different things may have happened...

a) He told the players to continue doing "A", they did and the team continued to suck.

b) He told them to do "B", they did, but the team continued to suck.

c) He told them to do "A", but they ignored him and did "B", and the team sucked.

d) He told them to do "B", but they either continued doing "A", or did "C" instead, and the team continued to suck.

IMHO, the only acceptable option where no one deserves to head-roll is option b. He tried something but it didn't work. That's alright, it is life.

If he did not try to change anything, or if the players ignored him, he has gots ta go...

 

[calsnowskier]

Better use that a lot here soon, might be out of date come October. Dodgers look legit, and they have the pitching 'horses' to do damage in short playoff series (Kershaw, Greinke, Ryu). Something Pittsburgh and Atlanta, for example, don't really have. They have pitching strength and depth but for 162 games not necessarily for 5 or 7. As we all know as Giants fans, in the playoffs the pitching rules.

How about we trade Cain and Bum to Atlanta for a few players to be named later?

After the season, they send them both back to us. That will keep the rings out of LaLa land...