Game Thread: #7 Notre Dame @ #3 Georgia, 8 pm EST, CBS

[Chewbaccer]

FTR I know not one ND fan that thinks they last play was PI. Even on the most partisan boards nobody is making they claim. Because if they were being at all honest there were a lot of no calls in that game. Moreover I don’t think ANY of the no calls were particularly egregious. Credit to the zebras. They let them play.

Absolutely agreed

 

[cooljack]

Georgia was lucky to get out of that one with the W.

 

[nathans8823]

Only thing I'd say about Notre Dame last night is faking those injuries was very shallow, didn't like to see that as an Irish fan. Great game otherwise.

 

[Kaplony]

you don't teach size, strength, and speed, ace.

you provided a link and clemson ranks above ND in every recent recruiting year except 2017. if notre dame ranks 10-15 in recruiting why should they be expected to finish near the top of the year end rankings each year?

i realize you hate notre dame, and feel you are superior simply for being a clemson fan, but you really are nothing more than a super fan who probably watches because you can't do.

I'm just repeating information that the Notre Dame SBNation compiled. I guess they hate Notre Dame too, you stupid fucktard.

College Football Recruiting: Notre Dame Fighting Irish VS Clemson Tigers

There was much deserved praise heaped upon Swinney and the Tigers, and in particular the recruiting efforts. Obviously Clemson was recruiting at a much higher level than the rest of the country — according to pundits. After all... they just dismantled the team that has basically sat at #1 in the team recruiting rankings for most of the last decade.


For those that follow recruiting, this wasn’t a very accurate statement. At least it wasn’t accurate on the surface where the numbers dwell. Since 2014, Clemson hasn’t finished any higher than 7th in the 247 Team Recruiting Rankings. The basically hovered in and out of the top 10. That’s generally not the trademark of a team that is recruiting at an elite level, and in fact, it sounds more like what Notre Dame usually does under Brian Kelly.


To that point, one of the themes of the offseason has been if the Irish can recruit on the same level as Clemson. So... let’s take a general look at how that has been from 2014-2019.

There's a chart supplied with the article. If you add up the 5 classes that would have played in the Cotton Bowl Clemson averaged a class ranking of 11.8. Notre Dame averaged a class ranking of 11.8. Clemson signs more 5 stars, but they also sign more three stars or lower. Nolan Turner, the Safety who intercepted an Ian Book pass to seal the Cotton Bowl victory, did not have a rating on 24/7 when he signed with Clemson. His only other offer was UAB.

 

[Kaplony]

Only thing I'd say about Notre Dame last night is faking those injuries was very shallow, didn't like to see that as an Irish fan. Great game otherwise.

Don't feel bad.....I found it poetic to see so many Jawja Boodawg fans crying over someone using the "SEC Flop" against them.

 

[desert heat]

I'm just repeating information that the Notre Dame SBNation compiled. I guess they hate Notre Dame too, you stupid fucktard.

College Football Recruiting: Notre Dame Fighting Irish VS Clemson Tigers

There was much deserved praise heaped upon Swinney and the Tigers, and in particular the recruiting efforts. Obviously Clemson was recruiting at a much higher level than the rest of the country — according to pundits. After all... they just dismantled the team that has basically sat at #1 in the team recruiting rankings for most of the last decade.


For those that follow recruiting, this wasn’t a very accurate statement. At least it wasn’t accurate on the surface where the numbers dwell. Since 2014, Clemson hasn’t finished any higher than 7th in the 247 Team Recruiting Rankings. The basically hovered in and out of the top 10. That’s generally not the trademark of a team that is recruiting at an elite level, and in fact, it sounds more like what Notre Dame usually does under Brian Kelly.


To that point, one of the themes of the offseason has been if the Irish can recruit on the same level as Clemson. So... let’s take a general look at how that has been from 2014-2019.

There's a chart supplied with the article. If you add up the 5 classes that would have played in the Cotton Bowl Clemson averaged a class ranking of 11.8. Notre Dame averaged a class ranking of 11.8. Clemson signs more 5 stars, but they also sign more three stars or lower. Nolan Turner, the Safety who intercepted an Ian Book pass to seal the Cotton Bowl victory, did not have a rating on 24/7 when he signed with Clemson. His only other offer was UAB.

notre dame had an average ranking of 12.33. how in the hell is that anywhere near #1.

can you read?

There was much deserved praise heaped upon Swinney and the Tigers, and in particular the recruiting efforts. Obviously Clemson was recruiting at a much higher level than the rest of the country — according to pundits. After all... they just dismantled the team that has basically sat at #1 in the team recruiting rankings for most of the last decade.

 

[romeo212000]

Frankly, neither team looked especially impressive. Both teams seemed to be playing below their talent level.

 

[desert heat]

Only thing I'd say about Notre Dame last night is faking those injuries was very shallow, didn't like to see that as an Irish fan. Great game otherwise.

Owusu was evaluated for a concussion. has it occurred to you his teammate just knew he was hurt, and told him to get down?

 

[Kaplony]

notre dame had an average ranking of 12.33. how in the hell is that anywhere near #1.

can you read?

There was much deserved praise heaped upon Swinney and the Tigers, and in particular the recruiting efforts. Obviously Clemson was recruiting at a much higher level than the rest of the country — according to pundits. After all... they just dismantled the team that has basically sat at #1 in the team recruiting rankings for most of the last decade.

Learn to read, you stupid fucktard.

#1 - as I stated in the post you quoted, in the 2018 Cotton Bowl there were five recruiting classes that played in the game, 2014-2018. Clemson's average class ranking for that five year period was 11.8. Notre Dame's average class ranking was.....11.8.

2019 is when ND dropped to 12.33, but the 2019 class didn't play in the Cotton Bowl.

Then you go from not listening to being patently dishonest trying to cover your absolute stupidity when you omit the paragraph that followed your quote:

For those that follow recruiting, this wasn’t a very accurate statement. At least it wasn’t accurate on the surface where the numbers dwell. Since 2014, Clemson hasn’t finished any higher than 7th in the 247 Team Recruiting Rankings. The basically hovered in and out of the top 10. That’s generally not the trademark of a team that is recruiting at an elite level, and in fact, it sounds more like what Notre Dame usually does under Brian Kelly.

 

[desert heat]

Learn to read, you stupid fucktard.

#1 - as I stated in the post you quoted, in the 2018 Cotton Bowl there were five recruiting classes that played in the game, 2014-2018. Clemson's average class ranking for that five year period was 11.8. Notre Dame's average class ranking was.....11.8.

2019 is when ND dropped to 12.33, but the 2019 class didn't play in the Cotton Bowl.

Then you go from not listening to being patently dishonest trying to cover your absolute stupidity when you omit the paragraph that followed your quote:

For those that follow recruiting, this wasn’t a very accurate statement. At least it wasn’t accurate on the surface where the numbers dwell. Since 2014, Clemson hasn’t finished any higher than 7th in the 247 Team Recruiting Rankings. The basically hovered in and out of the top 10. That’s generally not the trademark of a team that is recruiting at an elite level, and in fact, it sounds more like what Notre Dame usually does under Brian Kelly.

apparently you can't read. the pundits believe clemson has been recruiting at a higher level than anyone else in the country, while article simply notes that "on the surface" the numbers say otherwise. the numbers are obviously bullshit. then the article goes on to say clemson recruited many more 5 star recruits.

The biggest difference is what has been painfully clear to most Irish fans and media... 5-Star accumulation. Clemson has signed 12 5-Star players over the last six years while the Irish have signed ZERO.

 

[desert heat]

FTR I know not one ND fan that thinks they last play was PI. Even on the most partisan boards nobody is making they claim. Because if they were being at all honest there were a lot of no calls in that game. Moreover I don’t think ANY of the no calls were particularly egregious. Credit to the zebras. They let them play.

there were people on this board who thought it was pi, and even the biased announcers thought it was pi.

 

[Kaplony]

apparently you can't read. the pundits believe clemson has been recruiting at a higher level than anyone else in the country, while article simply notes that "on the surface" the numbers say otherwise. the numbers are obviously bullshit. then the article goes on to say clemson recruited many more 5 star recruits.

The biggest difference is what has been painfully clear to most Irish fans and media... 5-Star accumulation. Clemson has signed 12 5-Star players over the last six years while the Irish have signed ZERO.

You are obviously the illegitimate son of Oscar because even when the evidence it put in front of your stupid fucking face you just dig in your heels.

Yes Clemson had more five stars. Notre Dame had more four stars, and Clemson played a hell of a lot more two and three stars in the game than Notre Dame.

Three star or lower players for Clemson who played significant snaps in the Cotton Bowl, starters in bold:

Hunter Renfrow
Nolan Turner
Isaiah Simmons
Tremayne Anchrum
JC Chalk
K'Von Wallace
Tanner Muse
Gage Cervenka
Kendal Joseph
Justin Falcinelli
J.D. Davis
Judah Davis
B.T Potter
Greg Huepel
Will Spiers
Cade Stewart
Drew Swinney
Will Swinney
Carter Groomes
Max May
Austin Spence
Kyle Cote
Patrick Phibbs
Jalen Williams
Denzel Johnson


I count eight starters there. Let's see which of the twelve five stars contributed to the Cotton Bowl win:

2014 class - no 5 star signees per 24/7. The closest thing to a five star recruit in this class would have been Watson and he was nearing the end of his second season as a Houston Texan.
2015 class - Three five stars, two started and one was on the Colts roster in 2018.
2016 class - One five star, suspended for the Cotton Bowl
2017 class - Two five stars, one started the other was sitting out at Northwestern after transferring.
2018 class - Five five stars. Two started, two played as reserves, one was redshirting.

So out of eleven five star recruits in the five years leading up to the Cotton Bowl we had five starters and two players who played as reserves, compared to eight three star or lower recruits who started and seventeen who played as reserves.

 

[desert heat]

You are obviously the illegitimate son of Oscar because even when the evidence it put in front of your stupid fucking face you just dig in your heels.

Yes Clemson had more five stars. Notre Dame had more four stars, and Clemson played a hell of a lot more two and three stars in the game than Notre Dame.

Three star or lower players for Clemson who played significant snaps in the Cotton Bowl, starters in bold:

Hunter Renfrow
Nolan Turner
Isaiah Simmons
Tremayne Anchrum
JC Chalk
K'Von Wallace
Tanner Muse
Gage Cervenka
Kendal Joseph
Justin Falcinelli
J.D. Davis
Judah Davis
B.T Potter
Greg Huepel
Will Spiers
Cade Stewart
Drew Swinney
Will Swinney
Carter Groomes
Max May
Austin Spence
Kyle Cote
Patrick Phibbs
Jalen Williams
Denzel Johnson


I count eight starters there. Let's see which of the twelve five stars contributed to the Cotton Bowl win:

2014 class - no 5 star signees per 24/7. The closest thing to a five star recruit in this class would have been Watson and he was nearing the end of his second season as a Houston Texan.
2015 class - Three five stars, two started and one was on the Colts roster in 2018.
2016 class - One five star, suspended for the Cotton Bowl
2017 class - Two five stars, one started the other was sitting out at Northwestern after transferring.
2018 class - Five five stars. Two started, two played as reserves, one was redshirting.

So out of eleven five star recruits in the five years leading up to the Cotton Bowl we had five starters and two players who played as reserves, compared to eight three star or lower recruits who started and seventeen who played as reserves.

so you're trying to cherry pick one year? lol

who cares about recruitment ratings. they aren't the gold standard.

Why the recruiting rankings are flawed metrics

what do your eyeballs and small brain tell you? does notre dame have the physical talent that clemson has? is there anyone stupid enough on this entire board to say yes, besides you?

notre dame does not typically have the talent the better sec teams or ohio state has. and we saw the difference in talent last night with georgia averaging 345 pounds on the offensive line, along with elite running backs. ND had 48 yards rushing, 18 of those by the quarterback.

 

[Kaplony]

so you're trying to cherry pick one year? lol

Nope, I've been talking about the 2018 Cotton Bowl this entire pointless discussion.

who cares about recruitment ratings. they aren't the gold standard.

Why the recruiting rankings are flawed metrics

what do your eyeballs and small brain tell you? does notre dame have the physical talent that clemson has? is there anyone stupid enough on this entire board to say yes, besides you?

My eyeballs and somewhat experienced brain from my time coaching high school football tell me that while recruiting rankings aren't the end-all-be-all they are fairly accurate in the grand scheme of things. There's players who sign with Notre Dame every year that Clemson wanted. After a couple of years the players we got instead of the player who signed with Notre Dame turn out to be better even though they were lower on our recruiting board. The Notre Dame staff recruits well enough to compete, they simply do not develop the talent they do get. Player development is a coaching problem.

Biggest part of our player development is the fact that kids know if they come to Clemson they will get to play during the season. Against Charlotte we dressed 113 players, 111 of them played and the two who didn't were players who were dinged up and we were only going to play if we needed them. We played every QB on the roster, including the two walk-ons. Because we did that we lost Dexter Lawrence,an All-American soon to be first round pick, off the DL for the Cotton Bowl and we didn't miss a beat because his replacement, Albert Huggins, had played a ton of snaps. Our DL didn't miss a beat. It wasn't just last year....in the Orange Bowl against OU our best DE Shaq Lawson left with a knee injury and we simply replaced him with Austin Bryant and didn't miss a beat.

notre dame does not typically have the talent the better sec teams or ohio state has. and we saw the difference in talent last night with georgia averaging 345 pounds on the offensive line, along with elite running backs. ND had 48 yards rushing, 18 of those by the quarterback.

Notre Dame gets good enough talent to compete with the top half of the SEC and Ohio State. As has been pointed out already multiple times up until the 2019 class Notre Dame got the same level of talent as Clemson and Clemson has done a pretty damn good job of competing with Ohio State and the top half of the SEC the past few years. The difference is obvious: Clemson develops it's talent and adapts it's schemes to fit personnel and Notre Dame doesn't, and that my friend falls directly on coaching. Just look at what Venables is doing this year with his "Dime of Doom" scheme. We lost four NFL draft picks and an UDFA off the DL so the strength of our defense right now is the back seven. Venables could force things if he was married to a four man front scheme, but instead he's taking advantage of the versatility of former three star players like Isaiah Simmons, Tanner Muse, and K'Von Wallace and wreaking havoc with a three man DL and mixing things up with the LB and secondary. Clemson owes Bob Stoops whatever he wants for running Brent Venables out of Stillwater because he's simply the best DC in the game today.

Brian Kelly,while a murderous scumbag, is a good CFB coach. He's going to win nearly every game where he's got even or better talent. He's not, however, going to beat a team with better talent more than two out of ten times simply because he has absolutely no idea how to develop talent.

 

[desert heat]

Nope, I've been talking about the 2018 Cotton Bowl this entire pointless discussion.



My eyeballs and somewhat experienced brain from my time coaching high school football tell me that while recruiting rankings aren't the end-all-be-all they are fairly accurate in the grand scheme of things. There's players who sign with Notre Dame every year that Clemson wanted. After a couple of years the players we got instead of the player who signed with Notre Dame turn out to be better even though they were lower on our recruiting board. The Notre Dame staff recruits well enough to compete, they simply do not develop the talent they do get. Player development is a coaching problem.

Biggest part of our player development is the fact that kids know if they come to Clemson they will get to play during the season. Against Charlotte we dressed 113 players, 111 of them played and the two who didn't were players who were dinged up and we were only going to play if we needed them. We played every QB on the roster, including the two walk-ons. Because we did that we lost Dexter Lawrence,an All-American soon to be first round pick, off the DL for the Cotton Bowl and we didn't miss a beat because his replacement, Albert Huggins, had played a ton of snaps. Our DL didn't miss a beat. It wasn't just last year....in the Orange Bowl against OU our best DE Shaq Lawson left with a knee injury and we simply replaced him with Austin Bryant and didn't miss a beat.



Notre Dame gets good enough talent to compete with the top half of the SEC and Ohio State. As has been pointed out already multiple times up until the 2019 class Notre Dame got the same level of talent as Clemson and Clemson has done a pretty damn good job of competing with Ohio State and the top half of the SEC the past few years. The difference is obvious: Clemson develops it's talent and adapts it's schemes to fit personnel and Notre Dame doesn't, and that my friend falls directly on coaching. Just look at what Venables is doing this year with his "Dime of Doom" scheme. We lost four NFL draft picks and an UDFA off the DL so the strength of our defense right now is the back seven. Venables could force things if he was married to a four man front scheme, but instead he's taking advantage of the versatility of former three star players like Isaiah Simmons, Tanner Muse, and K'Von Wallace and wreaking havoc with a three man DL and mixing things up with the LB and secondary. Clemson owes Bob Stoops whatever he wants for running Brent Venables out of Stillwater because he's simply the best DC in the game today.

Brian Kelly,while a murderous scumbag, is a good CFB coach. He's going to win nearly every game where he's got even or better talent. He's not, however, going to beat a team with better talent more than two out of ten times simply because he has absolutely no idea how to develop talent.

notre dame may have been the 2nd best team in the nation last year, so i'm not sure what your point is.

recruiting rankings are a crap shoot. any reasonable person would realize it's difficult to predict how an 18 year old is going to be at 22, or how their talent and desire is going to translate in the college game.

notre dame was an elite team last year, but other than that, they haven't been elite since the holtz era, and have not been one of the more talented teams since then either.

notre dame is a cold weather environment, is a catholic school, has high scholastic standards, and has only an 18% admission acceptance rate. this makes recruiting more difficult.

your spiel about clemson magically developing players, while kelly's team is unable to develop talent is just a lot of homer talk.

 

[Kaplony]

notre dame may have been the 2nd best team in the nation last year, so i'm not sure what your point is.

No they weren't.

recruiting rankings are a crap shoot. any reasonable person would realize it's difficult to predict how an 18 year old is going to be at 22, or how their talent and desire is going to translate in the college game.

They miss on individual players but overall they have proven to be about as accurate a predictor as there is in college sports.

notre dame was an elite team last year, but other than that, they haven't been elite since the holtz era, and have not been one of the more talented teams since then either.

Clemson is the same except for 1981. The difference is Clemson had the coaching to get their talent to an elite level then allow the recruiting to catch up and thus far Notre Dame hasn't.

notre dame is a cold weather environment, is a catholic school, has high scholastic standards, and has only an 18% admission acceptance rate. this makes recruiting more difficult.

Just fucking stop. I'm willing to bet that every top level recruit Clemson has gotten over their CFP run had a Notre Dame offer. Hell, I know PERSONALLY some players Notre Dame has offered from here in SC who were marginal academically because we coached against them.

your spiel about clemson magically developing players, while kelly's team is unable to develop talent is just a lot of homer talk.

LOL. I'm going to take it easy on you on this one and not use Hunter Renfrow here. Name a Notre Dame player under Brian Kelly who has accomplished what Nolan Turner, an unrated recruit per 247 with only a UAB offer, has done in their college career. There's no magic involved, it's just a case of players knowing if they put in the work at practice they'll get to play on Saturday. We've played more players per game than anybody for a while now and this year will be no different. When kids know that the coaching staff lives by the mantra that practice determines playing time they put out maximum effort to get better. Hell, J.D. Davis last year is a perfect example. He was the first LB off the bench as a two star ahead of a four star in Shaq Smith.

 

[desert heat]

No they weren't.


They miss on individual players but overall they have proven to be about as accurate a predictor as there is in college sports.



Clemson is the same except for 1981. The difference is Clemson had the coaching to get their talent to an elite level then allow the recruiting to catch up and thus far Notre Dame hasn't.


Just fucking stop. I'm willing to bet that every top level recruit Clemson has gotten over their CFP run had a Notre Dame offer. Hell, I know PERSONALLY some players Notre Dame has offered from here in SC who were marginal academically because we coached against them.



LOL. I'm going to take it easy on you on this one and not use Hunter Renfrow here. Name a Notre Dame player under Brian Kelly who has accomplished what Nolan Turner, an unrated recruit per 247 with only a UAB offer, has done in their college career.

ND lost one game last year, only to clemson. how would you know they weren't the 2nd best team?

like i said the ratings system is a flawed metric. just because someone is unrated doesn't mean they aren't talented. nor does having a high rating mean they will not wash out, or be mediocre.

clemson won because they recruited superior talent. bigger and faster. that's it. same with meyer and saban.

 

[Kaplony]

ND lost one game last year, only to clemson. how would you know they weren't the 2nd best team?

Because I watched every Clemson game last year, most of them at least twice. from kickoff to final whistle. You weren't the best team we faced last year by far. ND was going to get blown out no matter who they faced in the playoffs. You just lucked up and faced the one team that would have mercy on you.

like i said the ratings system is a flawed metric. just because someone is unrated doesn't mean they aren't talented. nor does having a high rating mean they will not wash out, or be mediocre.

Except all the data says it's not.

Coming out of Socastee HS Hunter Renfrow wasn't going to be the WR who held the records for receptions and receiving TDs in the college football playoff. He was an option QB in HS and hadn't caught a pass since his freshman year. Clemson got him in camp for a few years and saw his athleticism and gave him a shot as a walk-on. Hell, my son was at the Carolina's Shrine Bowl with him and Hunter thought he was going to be a DB when he made his decision to walk on at Clemson. They still text several times a week.

Nolan Turner was a Dabo promise to a former teammate. Turner's dad was former Alabama and NFL player Kevin Turner. He played with Dabo at Alabama and was dying of brain cancer. Dabo promised Kevin that he would take care of Nolan and after we missed on a few targets late gave Nolan a scholarship offer.

Clemson reaping rewards for taking chance on Turner

clemson won because they recruited superior talent. bigger and faster. that's it.

And Notre Dame recruited much of the same talent Clemson signed. Closing in recruiting is a coaching failure.



BTW, still waiting for you to provide an example of a player that Brian Kelly has improved as much as Nolan Turner.

 

[desert heat]

Because I watched every Clemson game last year, most of them at least twice. from kickoff to final whistle. You weren't the best team we faced last year by far. ND was going to get blown out no matter who they faced in the playoffs. You just lucked up and faced the one team that would have mercy on you.


Except all the data says it's not.

Coming out of Socastee HS Hunter Renfrow wasn't going to be the WR who held the records for receptions and receiving TDs in the college football playoff. He was an option QB in HS and hadn't caught a pass since his freshman year. Clemson got him in camp for a few years and saw his athleticism and gave him a shot as a walk-on. Hell, my son was at the Carolina's Shrine Bowl with him and Hunter thought he was going to be a DB when he made his decision to walk on at Clemson. They still text several times a week.

Nolan Turner was a Dabo promise to a former teammate. Turner's dad was former Alabama and NFL player Kevin Turner. He played with Dabo at Alabama and was dying of brain cancer. Dabo promised Kevin that he would take care of Nolan and after we missed on a few targets late gave Nolan a scholarship offer.

Clemson reaping rewards for taking chance on Turner


And Notre Dame recruited much of the same talent Clemson signed. Closing in recruiting is a coaching failure.



BTW, still waiting for you to provide an example of a player that Brian Kelly has improved as much as Nolan Turner.

don't refer to notre dame as being me. i'm just a casual fan, and admire their tradition. i'm not a super fan like you. i play sports, i don't spend much time watching others play. and football is nothing more than a game.

you don't know jack about whether ND was #2 or not. you're just hater who puts down their coach and is now disrespecting their team.

your argument is stupid to say just because notre dame didn't win the championship it shows kelly can't develop players. they were a top tier elite team out of 130 schools, probably the second best.

 

[jjc2009]

there were people on this board who thought it was pi, and even the biased announcers thought it was pi.

None of whom were ND fans.