Game Thread: 7.31 Strangers @ Webb

[tzill]

Per Baggs:

Logan Webb will start for the Giants tonight. And no, Joey Bart will not catch him. Things can change, but for now, I'm hearing that Bart's promotion is nowhere near imminent. The Giants are not convinced that he is ready and believe they would be rushing him.

Lineup to follow

 

[Stokes1931]

Per Baggs:

Logan Webb will start for the Giants tonight. And no, Joey Bart will not catch him. Things can change, but for now, I'm hearing that Bart's promotion is nowhere near imminent. The Giants are not convinced that he is ready and believe they would be rushing him.

Lineup to follow

They would be, how do I put this politely, WRONG. Unless Bart has some lingering physical issues from his broken hand (twice) last year.

Bart is their future. He will learn nothing, NOTHING staying in Sacramento. When he has played (in the AFL and in Spring Training), he has dominated with the bat, and shown a good understanding of catching.

I really don't get this. It feels a whole lot like the Buster/Molina issue of 10 years ago, but without the Molina to push out. The current catchers are not MLB catchers. And the sooner the pitchers on the staff get used to throwing to Bart, the better off they will be.

Not ready? Rushing him? The old regime considered rookies too young to play at 27. Bart will be 24 in December. He is as ready as he will ever be now. Call him up and play him.

 

[tzill]

They would be, how do I put this politely, WRONG. Unless Bart has some lingering physical issues from his broken hand (twice) last year.

Bart is their future. He will learn nothing, NOTHING staying in Sacramento. When he has played (in the AFL and in Spring Training), he has dominated with the bat, and shown a good understanding of catching.

I really don't get this. It feels a whole lot like the Buster/Molina issue of 10 years ago, but without the Molina to push out. The current catchers are not MLB catchers. And the sooner the pitchers on the staff get used to throwing to Bart, the better off they will be.

Not ready? Rushing him? The old regime considered rookies too young to play at 27. Bart will be 24 in December. He is as ready as he will ever be now. Call him up and play him.

I have no idea how you could possibly know that. Anyway, in FZ I trust. If Bart ain't ready, he ain't ready.

 

[calsnowskier]

I agree with tz (yuck! Blech! Icky!).

The Giants are not a realistic contender this year, so burning a year of control on Bart in a partial season, that could seriously end at any moment, it simply bad business. You may not like the clock rules, but they exist, and if you were to ignore them, you will pay the price.

if this were a normal season, with fans and a “guaranteed” complete season, then MAYBE I would be in favor of calling him up and starting his clock. But burning a full year of control for this just doesn’t make sense to me.

And I think it is likely that he is not ready. Catching is the hardest position to play in baseball. It takes time to get that down. Granted, not having him in real games (counting minor league games as real for the purposes of this discussion) for a whole year does muddy the waters. Calling him up and burning a year for educational purposes does make SOME sense. It just doesn’t make enough, imho.

 

[tzill]

1. Austin Slater (R) RF
2. Wilmer Flores (R) 1B
3. Mike Yastrzemski (L) CF
4. Hunter Pence (R) LF
5. Evan Longoria (R) 3B
6. Donovan Solano (R) 2B
7. Darin Ruf (R) DH
8. Chadwick Tromp (R) C
9. Mauricio Dubon (R) SS

SP - The Loganator

Strange those strangin strangers....

4-1 good guys.

 

[tzill]

Awesome. One pitch and we are losing. Mound about to be shat it appears....

 

[Stokes1931]

I agree with tz (yuck! Blech! Icky!).

The Giants are not a realistic contender this year, so burning a year of control on Bart in a partial season, that could seriously end at any moment, it simply bad business. You may not like the clock rules, but they exist, and if you were to ignore them, you will pay the price.

if this were a normal season, with fans and a “guaranteed” complete season, then MAYBE I would be in favor of calling him up and starting his clock. But burning a full year of control for this just doesn’t make sense to me.

And I think it is likely that he is not ready. Catching is the hardest position to play in baseball. It takes time to get that down. Granted, not having him in real games (counting minor league games as real for the purposes of this discussion) for a whole year does muddy the waters. Calling him up and burning a year for educational purposes does make SOME sense. It just doesn’t make enough, imho.

Team control is a mute point now.

"There's a business side to this, too. The Giants only needed to keep Bart off their major league roster for the first five games of the season to fall short a year of service time, keeping him under team control for an extra season. That time now has passed, with the sixth game of the season taking place Wednesday night against the San Diego Padres."

So calling him up would not burn a year. And keeping him in Sacramento will not help him develop. He is, right now, a MLB hitter. Which is more than we can say about the scrubs doing the catching right now. He has missed a bunch of time because of the two broken hands, to be sure. I don't think they have anything to lose by bringing him up and playing him. I will have to trust the PTB's on this, though reluctantly.

 

[LHG]

Awesome. One pitch and we are losing. Mound about to be shat it appears....

Knee jerk much?

 

[LHG]

Team control is a mute point now.

"There's a business side to this, too. The Giants only needed to keep Bart off their major league roster for the first five games of the season to fall short a year of service time, keeping him under team control for an extra season. That time now has passed, with the sixth game of the season taking place Wednesday night against the San Diego Padres."

So calling him up would not burn a year. And keeping him in Sacramento will not help him develop. He is, right now, a MLB hitter. Which is more than we can say about the scrubs doing the catching right now. He has missed a bunch of time because of the two broken hands, to be sure. I don't think they have anything to lose by bringing him up and playing him. I will have to trust the PTB's on this, though reluctantly.

Chadwick Tromp says "not so fast, I'm about to make catchers great again".

 

[Stokes1931]

Chadwick Tromp says "not so fast, I'm about to make catchers great again".

I sit corrected, sir.

 

[msgkings322]

I agree with tz (yuck! Blech! Icky!).

The Giants are not a realistic contender this year, so burning a year of control on Bart in a partial season, that could seriously end at any moment, it simply bad business. You may not like the clock rules, but they exist, and if you were to ignore them, you will pay the price.

if this were a normal season, with fans and a “guaranteed” complete season, then MAYBE I would be in favor of calling him up and starting his clock. But burning a full year of control for this just doesn’t make sense to me.

And I think it is likely that he is not ready. Catching is the hardest position to play in baseball. It takes time to get that down. Granted, not having him in real games (counting minor league games as real for the purposes of this discussion) for a whole year does muddy the waters. Calling him up and burning a year for educational purposes does make SOME sense.o It just doesn’t make enough, imho.

I heard on the radio that because this season is nuts that call-ups don't start their clocks if they play this year?

Is that for real or did I misunderstand?

I agree either way there's no pressing reason to bring up Bart this year

Edit: shoulda read farther before posting this, thanks Stokes

 

[msgkings322]

Knee jerk much?

Um, you know that's still @tzill right?

 

[msgkings322]

I mean, this season is gonna be banana bread cuckoo asterisk all day but that also means it's fun and wide open. Between 16 playoff teams and only 60 games to play (season's 13.3% over LOL) just about anything is possible. You can't really go by many rules of thumb to try to figure this out.

 

[calsnowskier]

Team control is a mute point now.

"There's a business side to this, too. The Giants only needed to keep Bart off their major league roster for the first five games of the season to fall short a year of service time, keeping him under team control for an extra season. That time now has passed, with the sixth game of the season taking place Wednesday night against the San Diego Padres."

So calling him up would not burn a year. And keeping him in Sacramento will not help him develop. He is, right now, a MLB hitter. Which is more than we can say about the scrubs doing the catching right now. He has missed a bunch of time because of the two broken hands, to be sure. I don't think they have anything to lose by bringing him up and playing him. I will have to trust the PTB's on this, though reluctantly.

You are presuming that he will be up before the cutoff date next year.

 

[pachyderm]

Giants do many things well, beat Rangers

 

[jeep99tj]

Team control is a mute point now.

"There's a business side to this, too. The Giants only needed to keep Bart off their major league roster for the first five games of the season to fall short a year of service time, keeping him under team control for an extra season. That time now has passed, with the sixth game of the season taking place Wednesday night against the San Diego Padres."

So calling him up would not burn a year. And keeping him in Sacramento will not help him develop. He is, right now, a MLB hitter. Which is more than we can say about the scrubs doing the catching right now. He has missed a bunch of time because of the two broken hands, to be sure. I don't think they have anything to lose by bringing him up and playing him. I will have to trust the PTB's on this, though reluctantly.

I agree. This is the best case scenario for him with Posey sitting out. Get him up and let the baseball gods do their thing.

 

[Stokes1931]

You are presuming that he will be up before the cutoff date next year.

Yup

 

[tzill]

Knee jerk much?

Nope, just being accurate. He was.....not good

 

[Stokes1931]

Nope, just being accurate. He was.....not good

On the post game last night (radio), the guys were talking about this. Hitting the first pitch of the game for a homer is usually a bad sign for the team that hit it, they said. They went back and recalled where Giants had hit first pitch leadoff homers (Blanco came to mind) where the team lost. And they recalled games where the other team hit a leadoff first pitch homer against the Giants and the Giants won. Strange world.

 

[calsnowskier]

On the post game last night (radio), the guys were talking about this. Hitting the first pitch of the game for a homer is usually a bad sign for the team that hit it, they said. They went back and recalled where Giants had hit first pitch leadoff homers (Blanco came to mind) where the team lost. And they recalled games where the other team hit a leadoff first pitch homer against the Giants and the Giants won. Strange world.

Not that I put a lot of stock in it, but it would be interesting to get some empirical numbers on that rather than anecdotal. Maybe it puts the hitting-team to sleep, thinking “we got this one”??