Game Thread: 7/29 Gnats @ Turdmardzjia

[RamsFan88]

Hopefully Pence and Nunez will give the lineup the spark they need to pick it back up again.

 

[Stokes1931]

From Baggs:

Neither Span nor Bochy would say anything critical of third base coach Roberto Kelly, and it’s true, the play was an odd one that developed quickly. But between Friday’s triple play and Angel Pagan’s failure to score on a wild pitch at Yankee Stadium, it’s fair to wonder if the Giants are lacking some combination of assertiveness, aggressiveness or attentiveness in the third base coaching box.

Kelly has certainly been a major downgrade at 3b coach from the Flan Man, but Kelly is not the one flailing miserably in the batter's box lately.

 

[tzill]

All the links are weak, you sound like a crazy person. The last 3 games we only gave up 10 runs. But we only scored 4.

I'm crazy....let's see. Since returning home (to a pretty good pitchers park):

36.1 IP; 35 H; 21 ER; 8 BB; 30 K; 7 HR

That's an ERA of 5.20
WHIP of 1.18
K/BB of 3.75
HR/9 of 1.73

Pretty, pretty #weaklink

I'm not saying the hitting has been good, or that the defense has been solid. Or even that the bullpen has done its job.

I am saying that the SP has continued its #weaklink status.

It's very disappointing. If that makes me crazy, so be it.

 

[msgkings322]

I'm crazy....let's see. Since returning home (to a pretty good pitchers park):

36.1 IP; 35 H; 21 ER; 8 BB; 30 K; 7 HR

That's an ERA of 5.20
WHIP of 1.18
K/BB of 3.75
HR/9 of 1.73

Pretty, pretty #weaklink

I'm not saying the hitting has been good, or that the defense has been solid. Or even that the bullpen has done its job.

I am saying that the SP has continued its #weaklink status.

It's very disappointing. If that makes me crazy, so be it.

It makes you obsessed with defending any position you take. Yes the pitching has been kind of bad, but no worse than other parts of the team especially the hitting. No 'link' is particularly weak. It's all shitty lately.

But it's not a big deal if you keep at it, it's just makes you sound a little crazy.

 

[calsnowskier]

WHIP of 1.18
K/BB of 3.75
HR/9 of 1.73

Actually, these are all rather solid numbers...

 

[tzill]

Actually, these are all rather solid numbers...

Not 1.73 HR/9....that's twice what it should be.

The WHIP is ok, and the k/bb ratio is nice. However, if I take Bum's start out of the mix, it's pretty atrocious:

ERA 6.35
WHIP 1.34
K/BB 2.62
HR/9 1.90

awful.

 

[calsnowskier]

Not 1.73 HR/9....that's twice what it should be.

The WHIP is ok, and the k/bb ratio is nice. However, if I take Bum's start out of the mix, it's pretty atrocious:

ERA 6.35
WHIP 1.34
K/BB 2.62
HR/9 1.90

awful.

1.18 WHIP is not "ok". It is VERY solid. Hell, even the 1.34 WHIP from your cherry picked stats is acceptable (given that it excludes the best dataset). 2.62 K/BB is nice as well.

You are focusing on the ERA and then basically ignoring the periphery stats. That's fine. At the the end of the day ERA is the most important of the bunch. But only in the same vein that the W-L record is, ultimately, the most important stat.

Give me a pitcher with a studly WHIP and a modest (at best) ERA and I will be more comfortable going forward with him than a pitcher with a modest WHIP and nice ERA. The WHIP, IMHO, is more telling.

 

[tzill]

1.18 WHIP is not "ok". It is VERY solid. Hell, even the 1.34 WHIP from your cherry picked stats is acceptable (given that it excludes the best dataset). 2.62 K/BB is nice as well.

You are focusing on the ERA and then basically ignoring the periphery stats. That's fine. At the the end of the day ERA is the most important of the bunch. But only in the same vein that the W-L record is, ultimately, the most important stat.

Give me a pitcher with a studly WHIP and a modest (at best) ERA and I will be more comfortable going forward with him than a pitcher with a modest WHIP and nice ERA. The WHIP, IMHO, is more telling.

Ok, but what about the HR/9? Atrocious. The WHIP is mediocre at 1.34 as well. The point remains: right now, SP 2-5 are a #weaklink.

Will that continue? I sure hope not.

 

[calsnowskier]

I am not claiming that pitching (SP in particular) is a STRENGTH. I am just saying that it is not the reason for this funk. The ERA is not as good as the peripheral stats would indicate, and they have been getting ZERO support with the gloves (and less-than-expected defense).

Again, though, when you cherry pick out the best data-set, of course you are going to get less-than-ideal numbers.

 

[tzill]

I am not claiming that pitching (SP in particular) is a STRENGTH. I am just saying that it is not the reason for this funk. The ERA is not as good as the peripheral stats would indicate, and they have been getting ZERO support with the gloves (and less-than-expected defense).

Again, though, when you cherry pick out the best data-set, of course you are going to get less-than-ideal numbers.

But my point is that the 2-5 are poor right now. So I'm not "cherry picking" the stats in that respect. You can even include Cain today, and the point stands. They are a #weaklink.

 

[msgkings322]

But my point is that the 2-5 are poor right now. So I'm not "cherry picking" the stats in that respect. You can even include Cain today, and the point stands. They are a #weaklink.

But they aren't though, or rather they aren't the worst thing going on. Isn't that the accepted definition of a 'weak link'? And 2-5, really? Again, you sound mentally distressed.

Oh sorry, #mentallydistressed

 

[tzill]

But they aren't though, or rather they aren't the worst thing going on. Isn't that the accepted definition of a 'weak link'? And 2-5, really? Again, you sound mentally distressed.

Oh sorry, #mentallydistressed

You do get the difference between the indefinite article "a" and the definite article "the," don't you?

And I'm sorry if that's distressing to you. #tuquoquearguments

 

[calsnowskier]

But my point is that the 2-5 are poor right now. So I'm not "cherry picking" the stats in that respect. You can even include Cain today, and the point stands. They are a #weaklink.

Show some numbers of other teams 2-5 SPs for comparison. You seem to expect the rotation to AVERAGE a #2 starter, while removing the Ace's numbers from the equation. That is absurd.

While the rotation has been short of 2010, it has done enough (all said to get by during this funk. The slump is almost entirely a result of RISP.

 

[tzill]

Show some numbers of other teams 2-5 SPs for comparison. You seem to expect the rotation to AVERAGE a #2 starter, while removing the Ace's numbers from the equation. That is absurd.

While the rotation has been short of 2010, it has done enough (all said to get by during this funk. The slump is almost entirely a result of RISP.

What were the 2-5 in 2010, 2012, 2014 paid in terms of a percentage of payroll? The percentage in 2016 is massively more.

Cueto = 17.5
Shitmardzjia = 10.8 (leaping up next year)
Peavy = 15
Cain = 20.8

Total = $64.1MM -- that's THIRTY SEVEN PHUKING PERCENT of payroll. Do I expect a lot out of 37% of the payroll?

Hell yes.

Are they performing up to their pay?

Hell no.

So while you can rationalize it as "other parts of the team are as much/more to blame about this funk," I don't buy it. And the Giants ARE literally buying it.

You can disregard payroll as a sunk cost, but the point still stands: relative to what they're sucking up of the team payroll, they are not pulling their weight. Hence, #weaklink.

You go out and find me another team that has committed 37% of payroll to their 2-5 SPs, and then we'll talk.

 

[tzill]

Oh, and this -- 2017 payroll for 2-4 starters:

JC - 23.5
Shit - 19.8
Cain - 20.8

That's EXACTLY the same amount we're paying 2-5 this year. Assuming we have someone like Blackburn in the 5 spot next year, that's approx 35% of the budget in 2017 dedicated to those three pitchers alone.

They'd better phuking perform. I suspect JC will. Shit and Cain, who phuking knows?

 

[msgkings322]

Forget it, cal, it's tzilltown

 

[calsnowskier]

Forget it, cal, it's tzilltown

Lawyers gonna lawyer...