Series Thread: 2nd Round: 1) Celtics vs 4) Cavs

[Shanemansj13]

I do not think JB is the long term answer. I do not think he is an innovative enough offensive coach. He has a lot of weapons.

I think he is a pretty decent coach- and I do have to cut him some slack since there was basically very very little time that he had his core 4 avaliable to him at the same time---- but thus far he has not shown he can get Garland and Mitchell to work or do enough to get Mobley involved

there is of course the caveat that Mobley is 22- Garland broke his jaw and lost a ton of weight and just seems like he has never been right since- and Mitchell has been dragging his leg behind him since January....

it is a tough sport though- guys get hurt and coaches are held to a high standard. I think Budenholzer would do a better job.

I wouldnt get rid of Bickerstaff for just anyone- but I think Budenholzer would be better.

Agree on Bud

 

[dtgold88]

1. They will have options but no reason to keep a coach if it is not working. There is no argument to keep a coach if players are not progressing under his system, right?

2. Are we seeing the offense improve? I don’t see it. How about lets think about it the other way. What is he doing that makes you think he can work long-term? Offense is too inconsistent. If he isn’t the problem then we have a greater problem, either lack of the right personnel or Garland/Mobley/others have a lower ceiling than we think? I don’t believe that honestly. I still believe Mobley can be a great player overall not under this head coach

3. Nope, I don’t think it all on coaching obviously. It could be some of it but lack pf development is also on the player but under good coaching a player is put in the best position. It plays a part. A lot of factor. So basically what you are saying is Garland isn’t as good as we believe…ok well that is a different problem. I would be fine with a trade but doubting Koby is trading him. Definitely not trading Mobley obviously

Wade is a key player? He is a good role player. We aren’t talking dramatic development like Derrick White. Merrill is a great shooter, he has been for some time. He has done nothing in the playoffs.

The entire point is the offense is a one trick pony in the postseason. You see it, I see it…we all see it. It is Mitchell or Garland dribbling around most of the time trying to create a shot for themselves or dishing it late in the shot clock. Stagnant offense. It gets worse in the playoffs vs top tier defense. Not always but yes it does happen a lot.

Anything bad about the team or coach you will defend at will so I don’t think you have a fair opinion. You want to keep the coach? Yes a head coach does play a part in development and success of players. If you don’t believe that you haven’t played sports. Plain and simple. I never denied that wasn’t the main factor or there are other factors. Maybe Mobley will never be a very good or great offensive player/complete player. We don’t know but the entire point is JB is not the best head coach for this team. Why? Bc there is a clear ceiling as him as a head coach. I know you will blurt some stupid shit about improving every year but if you watch the games, you know.

@WiggyRuss DO YOU THINK JB IS THE LONG-TERM ANSWER AT HEAD COACH?

1) But how about if the team meets or exceeds expectations and players are progressing which is more accurate (first part a fact)?

2) Offense sometimes has issues but defense matters as does wins/losses. To win 48 despite all the games missed by guys to injury was kind of impressive, no? I also think Mobley can be a great player and encouraged to see 3rd year version on par with 3rd year Giannis and Bam (or better). do I think he will be an MVP like Giannis? Nope....but he can become Bam for sure. Maybe better.

3) Wade was an undrafted FA and this is, what, his 3rd-4th season here? Wasn't White a 1st round pick who spent a few years already under Pop?........No coach ever gave Merrill a chance until JB did. As mentioned, made him into a player JBs critics cried about him not playing enough. He's still our 9th guy or even later so not crazy he has not gotten much of a chance without shooting well as you mentioned. Was a key to the Game 7 spark, though, which was obviously because of...his coach?

4) I'd say the point is we have improved yet again under JB and one of 8 teams sill playing. Game 7 is proof of what I believe and have for a while.....Basketball is nearly all about the players. Couldn't hit anything and were lethargic first 20 minutes or so of Game 7. Finally started hitting shots, getting stops and what do you know? They had a lot more energy, the ball was moving more and things snowballed for us (Orlando went the other way). I happen to give more credit to the players for that. What about you...the coach?

5) In fact, this is false.....I just credit and blame the players far more than the coaches. I also don';t have certain players like you who you only credit and blame. I am willing to give praise or be critical of anyone (player or coach) when deserved. I'll even be critical of Mitchell when it is deserved as I doubt he sees it and decides it's the last straw and he's out.

It's stupid to point out we improve every year when we have so far improved every year? Did hear someone whine and say "but we cannot keep improving a little every season".....yeah, that would suck as would mean we'd have to wait until 2026 to get to Finals and 2027 to win it all.

To your last question? I don't think it matters all that much as whoever we'd get to replace him is likely similar to JB and most coaches. Get them talent they can win. Don't and they wont. In addition, better chance to win games when players play well than not. FYI, we did have a top 10 defense AND offense last season.

Now if we can somehow pry Spo from Miami or get a few more seasons out of Larry Brown? I'd be all for it. Will say IF he's let go still think because of his defenses Bud would be interesting.....but he has underachieved quite a bit. Might prefer a newbie instead.

 

[dtgold88]

They are avg 27 points combined in the playoffs.

OK? They have struggled at times on O, but some things to point out.....Mobley still really young (it's his second playoff series) and plays elite defense. Garland is too much of a PG and that's how he plays.

Want to tell me both needs to be more aggressive on O? No disagreement.

 

[dtgold88]

I do not think JB is the long term answer. I do not think he is an innovative enough offensive coach. He has a lot of weapons.

I think he is a pretty decent coach- and I do have to cut him some slack since there was basically very very little time that he had his core 4 avaliable to him at the same time---- but thus far he has not shown he can get Garland and Mitchell to work or do enough to get Mobley involved

there is of course the caveat that Mobley is 22- Garland broke his jaw and lost a ton of weight and just seems like he has never been right since- and Mitchell has been dragging his leg behind him since January....

it is a tough sport though- guys get hurt and coaches are held to a high standard. I think Budenholzer would do a better job.

I wouldnt get rid of Bickerstaff for just anyone- but I think Budenholzer would be better.

also think Bud would be interesting as I've mentioned....but he's underachieved quite a bit other than maybe 2-3 seasons.

I definitely would not lose sleep if JB was let go.

 

[bksballer89]

We got to quit with the excuses for Mobley lol it is sickening

 

[dtgold88]

We got to quit with the excuses for Mobley lol it is sickening

They are called reasons as he really is only 22. He also is, in fact, an elite defender. Could he be better on O? Sure. Did Bam improve on offense after his lesser year 3 season to Mobley?

Cue excuses for Bam in 3...2....1......

 

[bksballer89]

They are called reasons as he really is only 22. He also is, in fact, an elite defender. Could he be better on O? Sure. Did Bam improve on offense after his lesser year 3 season to Mobley?

Cue excuses for Bam in 3...2....1......

Bam has improved every year in the nba. Mobley been the same player every year in the nba with no improvement

 

[Shanemansj13]

They are called reasons as he really is only 22. He also is, in fact, an elite defender. Could he be better on O? Sure. Did Bam improve on offense after his lesser year 3 season to Mobley?

Cue excuses for Bam in 3...2....1......

Bam was the 14th pick overall. Mobley was the 3rd and projected to be a star/superstar in the making. I would have liked his offensive game to expand more in 3 years. It is disappointing and he is young but if he doesn't expand his game next year. What is the excuse? He is only 24 years old. His efficiency is up, which is good, but he everything else is pretty stagnant on the offensive end.

 

[bksballer89]

Bam was dropping 32/14/5 in a close out game in the ecf in year 3 lmfao

22/11/5 in that series vs boston

17/12/4 round 2 vs Milwaukee

 

[Shanemansj13]

3-10 ft he has improved year by year.
10-16 he is taking less shots and his efficiency went down which is surprising.
16-3 pt - taking less shots and efficiency down. Surprising as well
3 pts - less shots, more efficiency

Not what we want to see. Less shots from 10 ft to 3 pointers. This is not progression on the offensive end. He has a great skillset that is not be used to his full ability. Yes, I do put this on coaching but I put it on the player. Not saying he doesn't work on it but you have to utilize in game and he seems scared at times.

2022


2023




2024

 

[bksballer89]

Year 3 for bam was first year as starter

Year 3 for Mobley is his 3rd year as starter

Bam- 16/10/5 on 56% shooting
Mobley-16/9/3 on 58% shooting.

Most importantly Bam showed up in the playoffs unlike Mobley

 

[dtgold88]

Bam has improved every year in the nba. Mobley been the same player every year in the nba with no improvement

Mobley actually has improved every year so try again. Does it make him better if he came into the NBA more polished and ready than Bam so less to improve on?

mobley's year 3 = or > to Bam year 3

 

[Shanemansj13]

Year 3 for bam was first year as starter

Year 3 for Mobley is his 3rd year as starter

Bam- 16/10/5 on 56% shooting
Mobley-16/9/3 on 58% shooting.

Most importantly Bam showed up in the playoffs unlike Mobley

I think this is really the glaring point and why guys are talking.

he has improved regular season, Slow progression. Would like for him to demand ball more and spread his game but it could come in time.

He can't play to this level he has been without Allen.

 

[bksballer89]

Mobley actually has improved every year so try again. Does it make him better if he came into the NBA more polished and ready than Bam so less to improve on?

mobley's year 3 = or > to Bam year 3

Now let’s compare bam 3rd year as a starter to Mobley 3rd year as a starter

Also Bam made the all star in year 3. How about Mobley?

Only a blind homer would try to make a case that Mobley is better than Bam. Fact is Mobley been a letdown for where he was drafted

 

[dtgold88]

Bam was the 14th pick overall. Mobley was the 3rd and projected to be a star/superstar in the making. I would have liked his offensive game to expand more in 3 years. It is disappointing and he is young but if he doesn't expand his game next year. What is the excuse? He is only 24 years old. His efficiency is up, which is good, but he everything else is pretty stagnant on the offensive end.

what is "everything else?" as you already mentioned he has become a far more efficient shooter overall (and from 3). His passing and assists have gotten much better each season.

If he does not expand his game next year I guess we worry about it then....but so far it has improved each season. I guess maybe his offensive rebounding (though % has gone up)?

 

[bksballer89]

I think this is really the glaring point and why guys are talking.

he has improved regular season, Slow progression. Would like for him to demand ball more and spread his game but it could come in time.

He can't play to this level he has been without Allen.

Problem is with big money on the table this fall, you would like to see a quicker progression and especially for the hype he came into the league with. They will pay him the money but if he continues on this pace, that will look like a bad decision a few years from now

 

[dtgold88]

Bam was dropping 32/14/5 in a close out game in the ecf in year 3 lmfao

22/11/5 in that series vs boston

17/12/4 round 2 vs Milwaukee

Only apple to apple comparison we have from that is round 2 where so far Mobley is 17/13/3.

should we compare year 2 season playoff performances?

 

[dtgold88]

3-10 ft he has improved year by year.
10-16 he is taking less shots and his efficiency went down which is surprising.
16-3 pt - taking less shots and efficiency down. Surprising as well
3 pts - less shots, more efficiency

Not what we want to see. Less shots from 10 ft to 3 pointers. This is not progression on the offensive end. He has a great skillset that is not be used to his full ability. Yes, I do put this on coaching but I put it on the player. Not saying he doesn't work on it but you have to utilize in game and he seems scared at times.

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Actually taking a lot less shots from 16 feet to 3 point which is a good thing as not sure it's where we want him shooting right now.

But kind of matter is overall shooting has improved quite a bit each season AND his 3 point shooting is much better this season than the others.

you can hope he is a finished product or search for things to complain about but I'll wait and see how things go for him. Is he has good as I hoped this year? Nope....but hardly a player who we should be looking for things to ridicule.

Never mind that elite defense he plays which is not very common for players his age.

 

[dtgold88]

Year 3 for bam was first year as starter

Year 3 for Mobley is his 3rd year as starter

Bam- 16/10/5 on 56% shooting
Mobley-16/9/3 on 58% shooting.

Most importantly Bam showed up in the playoffs unlike Mobley

so Mobley should be penalized because he was more NBA ready when he entered the league and you are making excuses for Bam?

Mobley played pretty well in our last series and his 2nd series about the same as Bam's 2nd series in year 2 season. I note you don't want to talk about Bam's first playoff series compared to Mobley. I get why as not sure 4/4/0 is showing up.

No doubt he's become one hell of a player, though. Guess we will wait and see how Mobley progresses.

 

[dtgold88]

I think this is really the glaring point and why guys are talking.

he has improved regular season, Slow progression. Would like for him to demand ball more and spread his game but it could come in time.

He can't play to this level he has been without Allen.

He's had 3 games without Allen. No doubt had 1 terrible game on O where pretty much everyone not named Mitchell struggled on O. Other 2 games was 14 and 14 on 65% shooting. Elite D in all 3 games.

If we can get another 17-13 game tonight I'd take it though would prefer he do more earlier in the game.