2015 World Hockey Championships

[Bloody Brian Burke]

From your mouth to God's ears.

/Good one to have 3 in the first

Love how Dano, 27th overall, has already made an impact on an NHL club while Gauthier, 21st overall, looks like he's destined for the 4th line.

Fuck, the Burke/Nonis stench is going to permeate my team for a decade.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Getting back on topic (lol), there's always the possibility of adding a Tavares or Stamkos to the team as well. This is shaping up to be the best Canadian team at the World Hockey Championships in quite some time.

I have a feeling Stamkos is hurt (I wonder what could give me that impression...). Regardless, he or Tavares would be a fine addition, as would Strome, Stone and Hoffman.

 

[KennyBanyeah]

It's still early, but the 2013 draft is starting to look like it could be one of the greats.

(So of course the Leafs would choose that fucking year to make the playoffs lol)

If that's a great draft (I don't think it is) then wouldn't that be PRECISELY the year to make the playoffs?? Bad drafts are the years when you need to tank, because talent doesn't extend into the teens of the 1st round. What do I know though, I cheer for a team that has no direction.

 

[DragonfromTO]

Love how Dano, 27th overall, has already made an impact on an NHL club while Gauthier, 21st overall, looks like he's destined for the 4th line.

Fuck, the Burke/Nonis stench is going to permeate my team for a decade.

GMs generally have little to do with the draft though. That responsibility can be placed at the feet of Dave Morrison. One of the few people who (unfortunately and amazingly) has kept his job.

I'm also not sure I'd personally be as quick to call the 2013 draft a great one. I think it might be that it's so early that no one's really had much of a chance to fail yet, so optimistic projections rule the day.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

If that's a great draft (I don't think it is) then wouldn't that be PRECISELY the year to make the playoffs?? Bad drafts are the years when you need to tank, because talent doesn't extend into the teens of the 1st round.

I'm also not sure I'd personally be as quick to call the 2013 draft a great one. I think it might be that it's so early that no one's really had much of a chance to fail yet, so optimistic projections rule the day.

All I said was could turn out to be great. Of the top ten picks, only Nurse is yet to play a full season. Guys like Domi, Lazar, Zadorov, Mantha, Burakovsky and Dano all have impact player potential. At the very least, the first round looks good, especially when compared with drafts like 2007-2009 which didn't exactly provide a whole lot of top-tier talent (I think the Leafs have had like 5 players from 2009's first round at various times).

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

GMs generally have little to do with the draft though. That responsibility can be placed at the feet of Dave Morrison. One of the few people who (unfortunately and amazingly) has kept his job.

Huh?

 

[forty_three]

Love how Dano, 27th overall, has already made an impact on an NHL club while Gauthier, 21st overall, looks like he's destined for the 4th line.

Fuck, the Burke/Nonis stench is going to permeate my team for a decade.

Not trying to twist the knife, but Dano was picked way higher than he was expected to as well. Jarmo thought about trading that pick to move down and still take him early in the second, but decided - no. Taking him now.

And Bjorkstrand was in the third round...

 

[DragonfromTO]

Huh?

I'm not sure what to say to this, I thought what I said was pretty clear. It obviously might differ somewhat depending on the organization, but it's my understanding that nowadays the amateur draft is largely the domain of the amateur scouts (and the guy in charge of them). Morrison is the Leafs' Director of Amateur Scouting and has been for almost 10 years. It's my understanding that in some orgs the GM gets directly involved with the #1 selection, but most of the time his hands are barely on the draft. Which makes some sense given that he's got a ton of other responsibilities and has probably barely seen (if at all) the players being picked. There's too much else for the GM to do in the modern NHL.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

I'm not sure what to say to this, I thought what I said was pretty clear. It obviously might differ somewhat depending on the organization, but it's my understanding that nowadays the amateur draft is largely the domain of the amateur scouts (and the guy in charge of them). Morrison is the Leafs' Director of Amateur Scouting and has been for almost 10 years. It's my understanding that in some orgs the GM gets directly involved with the #1 selection, but most of the time his hands are barely on the draft. Which makes some sense given that he's got a ton of other responsibilities and has probably barely seen (if at all) the players being picked. There's too much else for the GM to do in the modern NHL.

Who hires those scouts and develops draft strategies with them? In that case, GM's are barely involved with trades and FA signings, too. GM's basically just sit in the box above the rink and watch their team and make faces depending on how good or bad things are going and periodically fires the coach. For $millions a year.

 

[DragonfromTO]

Who hires those scouts and develops draft strategies with them? In that case, GM's are barely involved with trades and FA signings, too. GM's basically just sit in the box above the rink and watch their team and make faces depending on how good or bad things are going and periodically fires the coach. For $millions a year.

If we're going at it that way shouldn't the guy who hired the GM ultimately be responsible? Or the guy who hired him? Or maybe that guy's boss?

The GMs are always quick to get a picture with the first rounder and talk to the media about how much they love him and take credit both before and after things turn out well, but that's nothing real. I'm not saying that the GM isn't at all responsible, Burke and Nonis didn't hire Morrison but certainly could (and should) have canned him. I'm just saying that in most organizations nowadays the GM usually isn't very directly involved with the picks. It's the same as any other job in the organization... I mean, the GM can be thought of as partly responsible if the coaching is shitty too since he has the power to make changes and didn't, but the majority of the blame and responsibility falls on the guys who are actually coaching and not adequately filling that role, as it should.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

If we're going at it that way shouldn't the guy who hired the GM ultimately be responsible? Or the guy who hired him? Or maybe that guy's boss?

Often the GM is also the POHO, too, so they often are responsible, as was the case with Burke.

The GMs are always quick to get a picture with the first rounder and talk to the media about how much they love him and take credit both before and after things turn out well, but that's nothing real. I'm not saying that the GM isn't at all responsible, Burke and Nonis didn't hire Morrison but certainly could (and should) have canned him. I'm just saying that in most organizations nowadays the GM usually isn't very directly involved with the picks. It's the same as any other job in the organization... I mean, the GM can be thought of as partly responsible if the coaching is shitty too since he has the power to make changes and didn't, but the majority of the blame and responsibility falls on the guys who are actually coaching and not adequately filling that role, as it should.

I'm really not trying to turn this into another meandering Leafs conversation, but the GM's duty is to manage the team, top to bottom. That includes scouting, trades, coaching staff, equipment managers, etc. The chain of command leads back to him. He may have someone above them, but that person relies on their GM to carry out his plan. So yes, the GM relies on his scouts for drafting just like he does when he makes trades or signs UFA's. It would be silly to think otherwise and nobody is suggesting so. But the ultimate responsibility will always be with the GM if things go sour, and if what you're trying to do is absolve Burke (who reported to nobody during his reign of error) or Davey of blame for shitty drafting, well I'm not going to try to convince you to think otherwise.

 

[DragonfromTO]

All I said was could turn out to be great. Of the top ten picks, only Nurse is yet to play a full season. Guys like Domi, Lazar, Zadorov, Mantha, Burakovsky and Dano all have impact player potential. At the very least, the first round looks good, especially when compared with drafts like 2007-2009 which didn't exactly provide a whole lot of top-tier talent (I think the Leafs have had like 5 players from 2009's first round at various times).

Like I said, I think most of those guys benefit from having not had a chance to cover themselves in the stink of failure. Look at how Domi's become overrated for an example of this.

 

[DragonfromTO]

Often the GM is also the POHO, too, so they often are responsible, as was the case with Burke.


I'm really not trying to turn this into another meandering Leafs conversation, but the GM's duty is to manage the team, top to bottom. That includes scouting, trades, coaching staff, equipment managers, etc. The chain of command leads back to him. He may have someone above them, but that person relies on their GM to carry out his plan. So yes, the GM relies on his scouts for drafting just like he does when he makes trades or signs UFA's. It would be silly to think otherwise and nobody is suggesting so. But the ultimate responsibility will always be with the GM if things go sour, and if what you're trying to do is absolve Burke (who reported to nobody during his reign of error) or Davey of blame for shitty drafting, well I'm not going to try to convince you to think otherwise.

I'm not trying to absolve anyone of anything. I was really just trying to understand how the Director of Amateur Scouting, the guy who runs most (if not all) of the draft in most organizations, didn't even get his name mentioned when you bitched about drafting.

Most of the time (especially outside of the first round) it's not the GM saying "this is who we're taking", it's the director of scouting saying that and handing the GM a name to take to the stage and take a picture with.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Like I said, I think most of those guys benefit from having not had a chance to cover themselves in the stink of failure. Look at how Domi's become overrated for an example of this.

Domi hype has become a bit much, but he's got as good a chance as anybody. Domi's size is his weakness; isn't that the same issue with Marner who you'd advocate selecting with the 4th overall pick?

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

I'm not trying to absolve anyone of anything. I was really just trying to understand how the Director of Amateur Scouting, the guy who runs most (if not all) of the draft in most organizations, didn't even get his name mentioned when you bitched about drafting.

Most of the time (especially outside of the first round) it's not the GM saying "this is who we're taking", it's the director of scouting saying that and handing the GM a name to take to the stage and take a picture with.

I criticise the era, period. I didn't mention Richard Peddie but fucking lord knows he deserves more shovels of shit than anybody, no? The GM's are just the most visible characters of a circus steeped in a tradition of shit.

 

[DragonfromTO]

Domi hype has become a bit much, but he's got as good a chance as anybody. Domi's size is his weakness; isn't that the same issue with Marner who you'd advocate selecting with the 4th overall pick?

Marner outscored Domi this year despite being 2 years behind him. He's a lot better prospect than Domi was.

20 year olds (especially those drafted in the first round) are supposed to dominate the OHL, but everyone's acting like he's doing something special

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Marner outscored Domi this year despite being 2 years behind him. He's a lot better prospect than Domi was.

20 year olds (especially those drafted in the first round) are supposed to dominate the OHL, but everyone's acting like he's doing something special

Maybe he scored less because he was assisting Marner so much?

 

[DragonfromTO]

Maybe he scored less because he was assisting Marner so much?

Given that he had both fewer goals and fewer assists than Marner I don't know if that dog is gonna hunt

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Given that he had both fewer goals and fewer assists than Marner I don't know if that dog is gonna hunt

That was tongue in cheek.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

Deputy dan going to the worlds

Praying he can somehow increase his trade value