2015 Top Prospects

[Mays-Fan]

He's pretty much nothing more than a 4th OFer now. He has continued to ignore coaching all the way back to his days in college and hasn't responded well to negative feedback. He's still the fastest guy in the organization, but he is terrible on the bases. He's just not a smart player. The Giants tried to turn him into a more slap hitter to utilize his speed, and he responded by saying he a gap-power hitter. Sound familiar?

He just doesn't get it, until he realizes what his strengths are (world-class speed and excellent defense) and keeps trying to be something he's not, he's going to be a AAAA player. It might take a fresh start for him somewhere else to figure it out.

Like Japan?

 

[GiantsPackersChamps2011]

I'll have to look for the Single A players when they come to play in Modesto. I go to quite a few of the SJ Giant/Modesto games.

What happened to the center fielder Gary Brown? Looks like he isn't going to be the player they thought he could be.

This will be my situation now that they are in Sacramento. Go to plenty of games, catch some prospects

 

[Pattersonca65]

This will be my situation now that they are in Sacramento. Go to plenty of games, catch some prospects

One of the Giants minor league teams are in Sacramento? What level?

 

[moxie]

One of the Giants minor league teams are in Sacramento? What level?

Took over the AAA River Cats. SCORE!

 

[Pattersonca65]

Took over the AAA River Cats. SCORE!

Triple AAA. Those are the top guys. Modesto/San Jose is high single A or something like that. The top guys are there a short time or go straight to Double A.

 

[calsnowskier]

One of the Giants minor league teams are in Sacramento? What level?

Sacramento: AAA
Richmond: AA
San Jose: A+
Augusta: A-
Salem-Keizer: Short A

 

[calsnowskier]

Triple AAA. Those are the top guys. Modesto/San Jose is high single A or something like that. The top guys are there a short time or go straight to Double A.

AAA is for the most advanced, not necessarily the "top".

 

[Pattersonca65]

AAA is for the most advanced, not necessarily the "top".

That's true. Zito came to Modesto once for a rehab assignment, lol. They made a big deal out of locally

 

[tzill]

AAA is for the most advanced, not necessarily the "top".

AA tends to be where the best pitching accumulates; AAA for the hitters.

 

[Pattersonca65]

AA tends to be where the best pitching accumulates; AAA for the hitters.

Don't those pitchers from Double AA eventually end up in Triple AAA?

 

[Sandisfan]

Don't those pitchers from Double AA eventually end up in Triple AAA?

Baseball is strange in that you would think the highest level of prospects would be in the highest level but most of the roster of the AAA teams tend to be borderline major leaguers(SP) or those trying to hang onto the hope. Not that some of the best end up there but if they really are the next big thing they don't usually stay there long unless there is a really good player blocking them already at the major leagues.

At Double A you have players coming in from 2 high level Single A teams, plus some who move through the lower Single A very fast so the Double A league is almost an All-star team from each teams minor league and many Single A league players struggle at the Double A level so you usually end up with most of the best talent at the Double A level.

 

[MarcoPolo]

AA tends to be where the best pitching accumulates; AAA for the hitters.

Yeah, that's why Cain, Lincecum and MadBum all pitched for Fresno (AAA).

 

[tzill]

Don't those pitchers from Double AA eventually end up in Triple AAA?

Not often, actually. They usually jump to the majors from AA (at least the SP).

 

[tzill]

Yeah, that's why Cain, Lincecum and MadBum all pitched for Fresno (AAA).

Cain makes your point; Timmy and Bum do not.

Matt had a full year in AAA, and may be the last Giants homegrown SP to do so. Timmy pitched all of 5 games in AAA before being called up; Bum about a half season. Johnny Sanchez and Tron threw less games in AAA than Bum did.

So, if your point is "technically" do top SP prospects make a stop in AAA, then sure. But that's not where top SP talent accumulates...AAA is a brief stop if it's a stop at all. Cain is an exception to that rule, but he also came up a decade ago when things were different.

Put another way: Crick, Beede, et. al won't be spending a year in Sacto before getting called up unless they turn out to be faded prospects. The good ones basically jump from AA to the majors, with maybe a few starts in AAA to delay their arb clocks

 

[MarcoPolo]

Cain makes your point; Timmy and Bum do not.

Matt had a full year in AAA, and may be the last Giants homegrown SP to do so. Timmy pitched all of 5 games in AAA before being called up; Bum about a half season. Johnny Sanchez and Tron threw less games in AAA than Bum did.

So, if your point is "technically" do top SP prospects make a stop in AAA, then sure. But that's not where top SP talent accumulates...AAA is a brief stop if it's a stop at all. Cain is an exception to that rule, but he also came up a decade ago when things were different.

Put another way: Crick, Beede, et. al won't be spending a year in Sacto before getting called up unless they turn out to be faded prospects. The good ones basically jump from AA to the majors, with maybe a few starts in AAA to delay their arb clocks

Well, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, because I don't think there *IS* a "normal" ; teams do what they have to when the time comes. For example, if Scuturo had been healthy, we never would have seen Panik in SF last year.

How about these guys who never saw a full year in AAA before being called up : Belt, Sandoval, Hector Sanchez, Andrew Susac, Panik, Buster Posey ... Maybe AAA is just a place to dump rejects? No. If a guy is blocked then he stays in AAA. If a guy is needed, then he gets called up whether he is in AA or AAA. Remember a guy named Ryan Howard? I firmly believe that the ONLY reason he didn't go directly from AA to the majors is because the Phillies had a guy named Jim Thome playing 1B. It wasn't until Thome got injured that Howard got the call, and then they managed to trade him to make room for Howard.

There is no 'normal'.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Oops, with the caveat that superstars like Lincecum and Posey spend VERY little time in the minors, unless they are blocked. Then you try you damnedest to trade the 'block' so you can promote the star (like Molina to TX).

I don't know if you remember, but even Timmy was called up because of an injury to a SP (Russ Ortiz). He would have spent more time in AAA if the Giants didn't absolutely need a SP *IMMEDIATELY*.

Oh, and Cain's spending about one year at each level (except the season split between A+/AA) was more about his age (he signed out of high school) than anything else. I saw Cain throw 'the game' in San Jose where it 'clicked' he finally figured out the change-up and embarrassed every opposing batter for 7+ innings. Only 3 guys reached base IIRC : a HBP, a walk, and a single (who was promptly thrown out trying to steal 2nd). I still consider it one of the best (non-post season ) games I have ever attended.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Re: Cain's game in San Jose ...

I posted a 'scouting report' (sort of) on a different board at the time. It turns out that I still have a copy on my hard drive :

Cain DEALT. He was rumored to have been purposefully kept down in SJ an extra couple of months so he could work on a third pitch : his changeup - already having a "plus" fastball with movement, and a good curve. Well, that was the game where it "clicked" for his changeup. NOT just he threw it well - he finally figured out WHEN to throw it. I watched him throw it as the strikeout pitch to 3 straight batters one inning - next inning he threw it as his second strike to two batters, then followed with a 95 MPH blazing fastball for strike three. Next inning he threw his changeup as the first strike to the first batter (which screwed the poor guy into the ground) and then he didn't throw it for the rest of the inning - but by that time that's the pitch they were looking for. Great game.

I'm watching Cain blow away batter after batter with 94, 95 MPH heat - he struck out the first 4 batters he faced. Key : he's getting a LOT of first pitch strikes. And so I'm thinking like Crash Davis in Bull Durham "In the show, everyone can hit heat." I'm thinking, this guy is going to have to learn another pitch before he gets to Fresno. Then in the second inning, he starts mixing up his fastballs: 89-95 MPH, instead of straight 94-95 heat. Inside, outside, high strike, at the knees. The second time through the order, he starts mixing in a CHANGEUP. Man, it was so beautiful I almost started crying. Didn't see a curveball or a slider. From where I was sitting I couldn't see how much movement his fastball had. But a lot of guys were missing completely, not just fouling them off down the line.

First baserunner was in the 2nd (5th batter beat out an infield grounder) but was thrown out trying to steal second. Second baserunner was in either the 4th or 5th, hit by pitch (that MAY have been an attempt at a curve, come to think of it). Third baserunner was in the 5th or 6th - walk. One wild pitch (2nd inning, nobody on).

Check out THIS line : 7.0 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 0 ER, 1 BB, 14 SO

Yes, that's right : 7 IP, *fourteen* strikeouts. Absolutely the best pitched game I have ever seen. I took my daughter and some of her friends to the game. The people sitting around me looked at me a little strangely when I said to the girls "They're bringing in a reliever, Cain's done for the night. We can go if you want -- I saw what I came to see".

 

[MarcoPolo]

BTW, Cain was pitching in AA two weeks after that game, and he started the next season in Fresno.

 

[tzill]

Well, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, because I don't think there *IS* a "normal" ; teams do what they have to when the time comes. For example, if Scuturo had been healthy, we never would have seen Panik in SF last year.

How about these guys who never saw a full year in AAA before being called up : Belt, Sandoval, Hector Sanchez, Andrew Susac, Panik, Buster Posey ... Maybe AAA is just a place to dump rejects? No. If a guy is blocked then he stays in AAA. If a guy is needed, then he gets called up whether he is in AA or AAA. Remember a guy named Ryan Howard? I firmly believe that the ONLY reason he didn't go directly from AA to the majors is because the Phillies had a guy named Jim Thome playing 1B. It wasn't until Thome got injured that Howard got the call, and then they managed to trade him to make room for Howard.

There is no 'normal'.

I agree in general, and I wasn't trying to intimate there is a "normal." At least, not league wide. There are tendencies though, and the Giants tend to jump pitchers up from AA with little AAA time. Hadn't thought about the hitters, so maybe it's an org-wide tendency and not just the pitchers. Point taken on teams needs, though. That will always trump everything else. If Hacktor hadn't been a foul ball magnet, maybe my boy toils for a couple years in AAA.

 

[SFGRTB]

Re: Cain's game in San Jose ...

I posted a 'scouting report' (sort of) on a different board at the time. It turns out that I still have a copy on my hard drive :

Cain DEALT. He was rumored to have been purposefully kept down in SJ an extra couple of months so he could work on a third pitch : his changeup - already having a "plus" fastball with movement, and a good curve. Well, that was the game where it "clicked" for his changeup. NOT just he threw it well - he finally figured out WHEN to throw it. I watched him throw it as the strikeout pitch to 3 straight batters one inning - next inning he threw it as his second strike to two batters, then followed with a 95 MPH blazing fastball for strike three. Next inning he threw his changeup as the first strike to the first batter (which screwed the poor guy into the ground) and then he didn't throw it for the rest of the inning - but by that time that's the pitch they were looking for. Great game.

I'm watching Cain blow away batter after batter with 94, 95 MPH heat - he struck out the first 4 batters he faced. Key : he's getting a LOT of first pitch strikes. And so I'm thinking like Crash Davis in Bull Durham "In the show, everyone can hit heat." I'm thinking, this guy is going to have to learn another pitch before he gets to Fresno. Then in the second inning, he starts mixing up his fastballs: 89-95 MPH, instead of straight 94-95 heat. Inside, outside, high strike, at the knees. The second time through the order, he starts mixing in a CHANGEUP. Man, it was so beautiful I almost started crying. Didn't see a curveball or a slider. From where I was sitting I couldn't see how much movement his fastball had. But a lot of guys were missing completely, not just fouling them off down the line.

First baserunner was in the 2nd (5th batter beat out an infield grounder) but was thrown out trying to steal second. Second baserunner was in either the 4th or 5th, hit by pitch (that MAY have been an attempt at a curve, come to think of it). Third baserunner was in the 5th or 6th - walk. One wild pitch (2nd inning, nobody on).

Check out THIS line : 7.0 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 0 ER, 1 BB, 14 SO

Yes, that's right : 7 IP, *fourteen* strikeouts. Absolutely the best pitched game I have ever seen. I took my daughter and some of her friends to the game. The people sitting around me looked at me a little strangely when I said to the girls "They're bringing in a reliever, Cain's done for the night. We can go if you want -- I saw what I came to see".

This just got me really excited to watch Matt Cain pitch again. Great story.