2015-16 Los Angeles Lakers

[tomodach10]

Yep, two bigs that work well together in the past would do wonders for the Lakers with SHORT Buss out of the way. Plus Phil and Jeanie would be much happier as she would have him close by which most women seem to want.

I don't know about that. Having your wife working with you?

 

[lakersrule]

I'd bring Phil back at most in a consulting role, similar to West up in Golden State. I wouldn't want him making actual decisions.

If Jim steps down, why the need to bring in anyone new? Mitch is still a very good GM and I think both Ryan West and Joey Buss are capable front office personnel. West has practically been groomed his whole life to be a NBA GM. I think at some point in the near future he becomes the Lakers GM.

 

[trojanfan12]

I'd bring Phil back at most in a consulting role, similar to West up in Golden State. I wouldn't want him making actual decisions.

If Jim steps down, why the need to bring in anyone new? Mitch is still a very good GM and I think both Ryan West and Joey Buss are capable front office personnel. West has practically been groomed his whole life to be a NBA GM. I think at some point in the near future he becomes the Lakers GM.

Well, Jim is President of Basketball Operations, so I'd assume someone would need to fill that spot.

Maybe promote Mitch to Jim's position, make Ryan West GM, Joey Buss Assistant GM and put Phil in the Jerry West consultant role? That would make for an interesting mix of older and younger guys working together.

 

[wildturkey]

I just wonder how much Phil's lackluster performance in New York has to do with Dolan being an idiot. When Phil was hired, the consensus was that it would be a great hire if Dolan would take the Dr. Buss approach of staying the hell out of the way and letting him do his job. If not, it would go sour fairly quickly. Rumor has it that it has soured pretty quickly.

One can only assume that if Phil returned to the Lakers, it would mean that Jim has been made to go sit in the corner. He was the only one that seemed to have an issue with Phil.

I would assume that if Phil returns, he will step into Jim's role with Mitch remaining as GM. If that's the case, I think it could work really well. Mitch is a well respected GM and I don't know of any bad blood between him and Phil, so I assume they can work well together. Plus, Phil is a big name to have in the room when courting FA's.

Best case, Phil returns, Jim is removed or marginalized and the Lakers return to the top of the NBA fairly quickly.

Worst case, Phil returns, Jim is removed or marginalized and the Lakers don't return to the top of the NBA fairly quickly.

Either way, Jim is removed and that's a good thing, right?

It's Phil, not Dolan. He's been halfassing his job the moment he was hired. The scary thing is Dolan has actually been the voice of reason in their operations since Phil has had the job. That's how bad Phil has done in NY. He's made Jim Dolan a voice of reason. He doesn't put the time in to do the job seriously. He's also showing a knack for hiring weak coaches that he thinks he can push around and act a conduit because he's too lazy to coach the team himself (and he doesn't want to taint his record). He's got too much ego to do the job properly. Phil has no business being in a major front office role.

Plus, he not even a draw for free agents. NY has had cap room and FAs have actually cancelled meetings with them. No one cares about him. If he were just the coach, sure, but not as a GM.

 

[Retroram52]

I like that scenario TJG12. Everyone seems to fit their role and things may go extra smoothly!

 

[tomodach10]

Only one game left!!!! Sad to see Kobe go, but glade this horrible season is over.

 

[trojanfan12]

It's Phil, not Dolan. He's been halfassing his job the moment he was hired. The scary thing is Dolan has actually been the voice of reason in their operations since Phil has had the job. That's how bad Phil has done in NY. He's made Jim Dolan a voice of reason. He doesn't put the time in to do the job seriously. He's also showing a knack for hiring weak coaches that he thinks he can push around and act a conduit because he's too lazy to coach the team himself (and he doesn't want to taint his record). He's got too much ego to do the job properly. Phil has no business being in a major front office role.

Plus, he not even a draw for free agents. NY has had cap room and FAs have actually cancelled meetings with them. No one cares about him. If he were just the coach, sure, but not as a GM.

Damn. I hadn't followed the Knicks that closely and assumed Dolan was the issue.

 

[lakersrule]

Well, Jim is President of Basketball Operations, so I'd assume someone would need to fill that spot.

Maybe promote Mitch to Jim's position, make Ryan West GM, Joey Buss Assistant GM and put Phil in the Jerry West consultant role? That would make for an interesting mix of older and younger guys working together.

That's precisely what I think will happen at least regarding Mitch and Ryan.

 

[trojanfan12]

That's precisely what I think will happen at least regarding Mitch and Ryan.

Sounds like a good way to restructure things. I don't even care if they leave Jim as President of Basketball Operations, bring Phil in as a consultant and leave Mitch, Ryan and Joey in their current roles as long as Jim isn't making basketball/roster/coaching decisions.

 

[wildturkey]

Sounds like a good way to restructure things. I don't even care if they leave Jim as President of Basketball Operations, bring Phil in as a consultant and leave Mitch, Ryan and Joey in their current roles as long as Jim isn't making basketball/roster/coaching decisions.

That's what the PBO is though. They make roster decisions. That position has the final say.

And bumping Mitch to Jim's spot and promoting West does nothing. That's not a restructure, its just repeating what you've been doing but just scapegoating Jim Buss. Mitch Kupchak and Jim Buss are a unit. They follow the same thought processes. It's not the President of Basketball Operations doing everything and the GM is just a figure head position like it is with some franchises (like the Knicks with Phil right now). If people don't like what Jim Buss is doing, they can't like what Mitch Kupchak is doing because the two are intrinsically linked. If you get rid if Buss, you either keep Kupchak as a GM and let him work under someone else or just clean house (get rid of them both).

 

[trojanfan12]

That's what the PBO is though. They make roster decisions. That position has the final say.

Except that Jeanie has the power to pretty much neuter Jim or just remove him from his position outright (which is the better move anyway, imo).

And bumping Mitch to Jim's spot and promoting West does nothing. That's not a restructure, its just repeating what you've been doing but just scapegoating Jim Buss. Mitch Kupchak and Jim Buss are a unit. They follow the same thought processes. It's not the President of Basketball Operations doing everything and the GM is just a figure head position like it is with some franchises (like the Knicks with Phil right now). If people don't like what Jim Buss is doing, they can't like what Mitch Kupchak is doing because the two are intrinsically linked. If you get rid if Buss, you either keep Kupchak as a GM and let him work under someone else or just clean house (get rid of them both).

I disagree. Unless Jim started listening to Mitch, which seems possible. The moves the Lakers have made to get picks when they had none, getting Clarkson with the 46th pick, seeing that Nance could be pretty good, getting Randle and Russell who look like they're going to be good seem like Mitch taking the lead.

Also, promoting Mitch and Ryan West does change things because it removes Jim from a position of power. It also gives Ryan West and likely Joey Buss a little more power and say as well. They are younger and will hopefully be a little more creative and in touch with the younger players, analytics, etc.

Whatever the case, we're going to be in for a very interesting off season.

 

[trojanfan12]

Quick subject change:

Suppose the Lakers get the #3 pick. Keep it or trade it?

If trade it, who for?

I say: trade it. I'd try to put together a package of the #3 pick and anyone not named Clarkson, Randle, Russell and maybe Nance to the Pacers for Paul George.

I might even be able to be talked in to throwing in Clarkson if I think I can get a good 2 guard in FA.

 

[wildturkey]

Except that Jeanie has the power to pretty much neuter Jim or just remove him from his position outright (which is the better move anyway, imo).



I disagree. Unless Jim started listening to Mitch, which seems possible. The moves the Lakers have made to get picks when they had none, getting Clarkson with the 46th pick, seeing that Nance could be pretty good, getting Randle and Russell who look like they're going to be good seem like Mitch taking the lead.

Also, promoting Mitch and Ryan West does change things because it removes Jim from a position of power. It also gives Ryan West and likely Joey Buss a little more power and say as well. They are younger and will hopefully be a little more creative and in touch with the younger players, analytics, etc.

Whatever the case, we're going to be in for a very interesting off season.

The first part with Jeanie is irrelevant. I think you might have misunderstood what I meant. Of course she could say no. She's the acting owner. Any owner of any franchise can do the same. But you suggested leaving Jim as PBO but not making any basketball decisions when that is exactly the role of a PBO. Every franchise has a person in that role (the titles vary but they do the same job). It serves no purpose at all to leave him in that role and not let him do anything that the job requires.

How can you disagree that they are so much different? Mitch and Jim were brought up in the organization together. They were mentored by the same people, served together the majority of their tenure, and collectively make decisions together. It's pretty safe to say they follow the same principles. If they didn't, Mitch wouldn't be around. Buss would have gotten someone else he could work with if they butted heads that much on their views about the team. Bumping everyone up a chair is just giving more of the same. That logic is the what gets organizations (whether its sports or the corporate world) in trouble. Something is amiss in the company culture, they fire a guy and promote another guy from within to replace him...who was trained in the exact same culture. If you're going to make a change, make a change.You don't have to blow it all up and fire every executive and assistants in the basketball side of things. That's not what I'm saying. Bring in a new, outside voice or two to shake things up and give fresh outlooks and perspectives with what you already have. That's more logical. Bumping Mitch up and keeping everyone else while expecting different results is close to chasing your own tail.

Like I'll give you a couple examples that point out what I'm saying. Pay a shitload of cash to Bob Myers (Warriors GM) to be the new President of Operations. He then goes on to hire Ryan West to be the GM. Or Mitch to PBO and he hires an outside GM (say Neil Olshey from Portland, Scott Layden from the Spurs, or Danny Ferry) while retaining some of the underlings. Outside perspective still retain some past structure.

 

[Retroram52]

Nah, I don't like trading Nance for George. I'd keep Nance and the third pick or trade it to Boston for future number ones and twos like Ainge has been doing to other teams.

 

[tomodach10]

Nah, I don't like trading Nance for George. I'd keep Nance and the third pick or trade it to Boston for future number ones and twos like Ainge has been doing to other teams.

If we can get two future #1's for the third pick, i am all for it if we don't land in the first or second draft position.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

Nah, I don't like trading Nance for George. I'd keep Nance and the third pick or trade it to Boston for future number ones and twos like Ainge has been doing to other teams.

With Boston gradually improving that first round pick won't be very high.

 

[trojanfan12]

The first part with Jeanie is irrelevant. I think you might have misunderstood what I meant. Of course she could say no. She's the acting owner. Any owner of any franchise can do the same. But you suggested leaving Jim as PBO but not making any basketball decisions when that is exactly the role of a PBO. Every franchise has a person in that role (the titles vary but they do the same job). It serves no purpose at all to leave him in that role and not let him do anything that the job requires.

True. Hopefully, she'll just get rid of him then.

How can you disagree that they are so much different? Mitch and Jim were brought up in the organization together. They were mentored by the same people, served together the majority of their tenure, and collectively make decisions together. It's pretty safe to say they follow the same principles. If they didn't, Mitch wouldn't be around. Buss would have gotten someone else he could work with if they butted heads that much on their views about the team. Bumping everyone up a chair is just giving more of the same. That logic is the what gets organizations (whether its sports or the corporate world) in trouble. Something is amiss in the company culture, they fire a guy and promote another guy from within to replace him...who was trained in the exact same culture. If you're going to make a change, make a change.You don't have to blow it all up and fire every executive and assistants in the basketball side of things. That's not what I'm saying. Bring in a new, outside voice or two to shake things up and give fresh outlooks and perspectives with what you already have. That's more logical. Bumping Mitch up and keeping everyone else while expecting different results is close to chasing your own tail.

I think they may be different because Jim, as Mitch's boss, can still override whatever Mitch suggests. There is a reason that Mitch is well respected throughout the NBA and Jim is considered pretty much a joke. The way things went after Dr. Buss passed and then how well the Lakers have done in the draft despite being behind the 8 ball when it came to picks, is why I think Jim may have at least wisened up enough to start listening to Mitch.

Like I'll give you a couple examples that point out what I'm saying. Pay a shitload of cash to Bob Myers (Warriors GM) to be the new President of Operations. He then goes on to hire Ryan West to be the GM. Or Mitch to PBO and he hires an outside GM (say Neil Olshey from Portland, Scott Layden from the Spurs, or Danny Ferry) while retaining some of the underlings. Outside perspective still retain some past structure.

I really like either of these options. Outside perspective is almost always a good idea. Things can get a little stale when it's the same people making decisions year after year.

 

[trojanfan12]

Nah, I don't like trading Nance for George. I'd keep Nance and the third pick or trade it to Boston for future number ones and twos like Ainge has been doing to other teams.

Maybe, like Shaqdaddy said though, with Boston improving, that pick may not be as valuable. I like George because the Lakers need a small forward and he's really, really good. He's also a vet who can lead the young guys, but is still young enough himself to be able to be around for a few years. Imo, it would make the Lakers playoff contenders and having him would likely attract another max level FA (Whiteside?).

 

[Retroram52]

I still like Nance over George. I think the Lakers should really focus on landing Whiteside.

 

[trojanfan12]

I still like Nance over George. I think the Lakers should really focus on landing Whiteside.

I like Nance too. But he's not on George's level as a player and I'm not sure he ever will be. I think he makes for a great 6th man, but I don't see him as a starter. I'd love to be wrong and see him be at least as close to as good as his Daddy was. But I just think he's always going to be an energy guy off the bench. Which is fine. You can have a long, successful career in that role. Every team needs those kinds of players.

Not holding my breath on Whiteside, especially if he plays well in the playoffs. I'd love for the Lakers to get him, but if he plays well, I'm sure the Heat will be pretty motivated to keep him.

There are, however, 2 things that work in the Lakers favor. With their current salary, the Heat can't re-sign him at what he will likely be offered, so they are going to have some serious roster decisions to make. Also, the Heat do not have his Bird Rights, so they can't offer him any more than anyone else if they do manage to clear the cap space.