1880-2000 MLB Playoff Game 3

[Ritzarmy]

500

LINEUP
1. (L) Ty Cobb - CF - AL Central (HOF)
2. (L) Joe Morgan - 2B - NL Central (HOF)
3. (R) Jimmie Foxx - 1B - AL West (HOF)
4. (L) Ted Williams - LF - AL East (HOF)
5. (R) Mark McGwire - DH - AL West
6. (R) Gary Sheffield - RF NL East
7. (R) Alan Trammel - SS - AL Central
8. (R) Joe Torre - C - NL Central
9. (R) Willie Randolph - 2B - AL East

ROTATION
1. (R) Tom Seaver - SP - NL East (HOF)
2. (R) Christy Mathewson - SP - NL West (HOF)
3. (R) Mike Mussina - SP - AL East
4. (L) Mickey Lolich - SP - AL Central
5. (R) David Cone - SP - NL East

BULLPEN
1. (R) Tom Henke - CL - AL West
2. (R) Rob Nen - RP - NL West
3. (L) Terry Forster - RP - NL West
4. (R) Rod Dibble - RP - NL Central

VS

STOKE

LINEUP
1. (R) Rickey Henderson - LF - AL West (HOF)
2. (L) Tris Speaker - CF - AL East (HOF)
3. (R) Jackie Robinson - 2B - NL West (HOF)
4. (L) Larry Walker - RF - NL East
5. (R) Sammy Sosa - DH - NL Central
6. (L) George Brett - 1B - AL Central (HOF)
7. (R) Edgar Martinez - 3B - AL West
8. (R) Ivan Rodriguez - C - AL West
9. (L) Arky Vaughn - SS - NL Central (HOF)

ROTATION
1. (R) Pete "Grover Cleveland" Alexander - SP - NL East (HOF)
2. (L) Ron Guidry - SP - AL East
3. (R) Kevin Brown - SP - NL West
4. (L) Tommy John - SP - NL West
5. (L) Wilbur Wood - SP - NL Central

BULLPEN
1. (R) Mariano Rivera - CL - AL East
2. (L) John Hiller - RP - AL Central
3. (R) Kent Tekulve - RP - AL Central
4. (R) Mike Marshall - RP - NL East

 

[Ritzarmy]

500 – 5
STOKE – 2

VOTED – Stoke, Ritz, Femur, UK, Shane, Milk, 500

 

[blstoker]

 

[blstoker]

Henderson is considered the best lead off hitter in major league history. Not only does he have a career OBP higher than .400 (.439 career high) and major league records in steals and runs scored, but he also holds the MLB record with 81 career Hrs leading off games. Though not considered a high average hitter (.279 career, .325 high), he possessed good power for a lead off hitter (510/66/297 EBH) and he was patient, drawing more than 100 walks in a season 7 times and had more walks than Ks 19 of his 25 seasons. For his career, he averaged 1.73 times reaching base per game (H+BB+HBP), giving those hitting behind him plenty of opportunities to get an RBI. Winner of 1 Gold Glove and the 1990 AL MVP.

Speaker on the shortlist of greatest CF in MLB history – usually listed within the top 3. A career .345 hitter (4 times over .380), Speaker maintained a .428 OBP (6 over .460). Though not a high volume walker (1381 career, 94 high), Speaker walked nearly 4 times to each strikeout (1381/394) and on 7 occasions that number was over 6 per (1918, 64/9; 1919, 73/12; 1920, 97/13; 1922, 77/11; 1923, 93/15; 1926, 94/15; 1927, 55/8). MLB record holder for 2Bs (792) and 6th in 3Bs (222), Speaker produced 16 30-2B seasons (10 40/5 50) and 13-10 3B seasons. Speaker also had speed – stealing 40 bases in a season 3 times (50 once) and compiled 436 career stolen bases. Like Henderson, Speaker reached base a great deal – 1.79 times per game for his career, and between the 2 of them, that's a lot of RBI opportunities. Won 1912 AL MVP.

Robinson is an icon in the sport, whose feats will continue to be considered some of the greatest of all time. Being a career .311 hitter, Robinson is the third straight player in the line up with a career .400 OBP (.409), and he possessed mid level power, hitting 137 HRs in 1382 games (16 per 162 with a career high of 19) and a career slug of .474. Robinson will also be the third player in the line up to walk more often than he struck out – nearly 3 times as often – and he would reach base 1.69 times per game. Playing in an era that stolen bases twice, Robinson led the league in SB twice (1947 & 1949) and scored at least 100 runs in all but one of his first seven seasons (99 runs in 1950). This placement is in the mold of Tony Gwynn batting third, and if Henderson (or Speaker) were to be on third base with less than 1 out – Robinson led the league twice in SHs, having over 100 in just 10 seasons. Winner of the 1947 ROY and the 1949 NL MVP.

Walker is another .300/.400 guy, but this time with significantly more power (.565 slug). He was an all-around hitter, who hit more doubles (471) than HRs (383) and was a member of the 30/30 club (HR/SB). His string of seasons from 1997-2002 is one of the greatest six season runs in the post WWII era (.353/.441/.648/1.089). Though thought of as a product of Coors Field, he hit more HRs away from Coors (229) than in Coors (154). Walker hit lefties very well (.306/.385/.518/.903) which allows me to run 3 lefties in a row without much concern. A seven time Gold Glover, who threw out 150 baserunners from RF, Walker won the 1997 NL MVP.

Sammy Sosa is a power hitter, no one can deny that (609 HRs). Only player to hit 60 HRs in a season 3 times (didn't lead the league in any of them, just weird) Even though he lost the race to the record in 1998, Sosa holds the MLB record for most home runs in 2 consecutive seasons (129), 3 (179), 4 (243), 5 (292), 6 (332), 7 (368), 8 (408), 9 (444) & 10 (479) (maybe even longer, I didn't check). Hitting home runs at the pace he did does come with a cost – as Sosa is my first player to not only strike out more than he walked significantly. Sammy had 9 consecutive seasons with 100 RBI (1995-2003) and twice was a member of the 30/30 club. His BA (.273 career, .328 high) and OBP (.344 career, .437 high) is the lowest on the team, but he makes up for it with his power numbers, especially since he's the only one in the line up who depends on HRs so much. Overall, Sosa has the power to clean up anything left on the paths if Walker leaves them. Winner of 6 Silver Sluggers and the 1998 NL MVP.

George Brett was the best all-around hitter through the 70s and 80s, hitting .305 for his career (.390 high) and had a .369 OBP (.454 high). One of only 5 players to have 20 triple and home runs in the same season, he would lead the league in 3Bs 3 times. Though not an elite HR hitter, he had good power, hitting 20 in 8 seasons (30 in 1985). Underrated for his speed, Brett had 137 career triples and 201 stolen bases. A great eye at the plate – he struck out once every 11.4 at bats (best of 23.5 in 1977). Won a Gold Glove, 3 Silver Sluggers and the 1980 AL MVP (.390/.454/.664/1.118).

Edgar Martinez was the best right handed hitter of his time – and one of the best ever. Getting a late start in his career (27 his first full season) as well as strike shortened seasons (1994 & 1995) and injuries (1993, 1994 & 2002) made it difficult for him to acquire the numbers that the HoF like – especially for a guy who spent much of his career as a DH (due to health concerns, not skill on defense). He had a BA of .300 (.356 high) and an OBP of .400 (.479 high) in every season he played at least 100 games until he was 40 (2003, .294/.406). He had good, though not great power with 28 or more HRs 4 times from '95 to 2000. He hit 514 career doubles (52 high, twice) and 309 HRs (37 high). He stole 14 bases in 1992, the year before his injury that prompted the move to DH. A patient hitter with a good eye, he walked 1283 times (123 high) and never had a season with 100 strike outs. 4X Silver Slugger, he is the first in my batting order to not have an MVP award, though he finished 3rd in 1995.

Pudge is the gold standard that defensive catchers are held against, but his offense was too shabby either. He put up similar power numbers to Edgar with 311 HRs (35 high) and 572 2Bs (47 high), he didn't quite have as high of averages – though pretty solid for a catcher. From 1995 to 2004 he batted .316/.357/.515/.872 and averaged 21 HRs a season (10 years). Though not known for his speed, he did peak at 25 stolen bases in 1999 (10 was his next highest). Not known as a high strike out guy (never had a season of 100), he still struck out 3 times as often than he walked (1474/513). Won 13 Gold Gloves, 7 Silver Sluggers and the 1999 AL MVP.

It may seem strange to have someone who had a career .318 BA (.385 high) and .406 OBP (.491 high) batting 9th, but I am a believer in roles in the line up. The final spot in the line up should be able to do 2 things – sacrifice any runners on base into scoring position (116 SH in 14 years, high of 22) and jump start the top of the line up by getting on base himself. Arky Vaughan can do both. Vaughan was extremely patient as a hitter, working 467 walks from 1934-1938 (93.4 per season, 54 in '37 brought the average down) and he led the league each year from '34 to '36. Another high triples guy (128 career, 19 high), Vaughan led the league 3 times. He also hit 40 or more doubles twice (356 career) and had a high of 19 home runs (96 career). He led the NL in 1943 in SB, and though he won't be a speedster on the paths, he isn't keeping Henderson from scoring from first on a double while on second. Though before many of the modern awards, he finished 3rd in the NL MVP voting twice (1935 & 1938).

Overall, the line up is constructed to be a well rounded offense. Though the line up has players who can
hit home runs with 5 players with 300 or more career home runs (Henderson had 297 as well), it isn't built around such boom or bust principles. 5 players hit 500+ doubles (Walker also had 471), 3 hit 100+ triples, 5 stole 200+ bases (Robinson also had 197), 6 hit .300+ BA, 6 with .400+ OBP and 4 with .500+ slugging. Every player but Rodriguez has an OPS of .850+, and he's at .798. From top to bottom, this line up is designed to get on base often and hit them in, hell – 6 of the players walked more than they struck out.

 

[blstoker]

Alexander is one of the forgotten pitchers of the turn of the century – being put behind guys like Walter Johnson, Christy Mathewson and Cy Young – but, his career was rather magnificent. 5 times he led the league in ERA, and 4 times in ERA+, FIP and WHIP. If the Cy Young award had existed in 1911, there's a good chance that Alexander could have won as many as 8 between 1911 & 1920. He could shut an opponent out on any given start, leading the NL 9 times in SHOs, and though he would finish with 90 (10 behind Johnson), Alexander does hold the MLB record for a single season with 16 (he's also 5th with 12). He also led the league in strike outs 6 times.

Guidry was considered more a wily lefty, rather than an overpowering pitcher. He had good stuff that he used very well, and his 1978 campaign is considered to be among the best in modern baseball. He led the league in wins (25, did it again in 85), shut outs (9), ERA (1.74, did it again in '79) and WHIP as he unanimously won the AL Cy Young Award that year. Though his 14 year career wasn't long enough to produce the numbers that would get him considered for the HoF, he put up numbers from 1977 til 1985 that would rival anyone of the time.

I have been happy to see that people see Kevin Brown the way I remember him, a solid right hander that for the better part of a decade was near unhittable. During a time when home runs were flying out of ball parks with recless abandon, Brown gave up surprisingly few (26 in 727.1 innings from 1996-1998) and never gave up more than 21 HRs, and that only once. From '96 til '03 Brown was 109-58 with a 2.60 ERA in 1600 innings (playing for some mediocre teams) which includes a horrible season in '02. Though John Smoltz won the Cy Young in 1998 (24-8 2.94 ERA) the award really should have gone to Brown (17-11 1.89 ERA).

Better known for the surgery technique that bears his name, Tommy John was a very good pitcher who just seemed to pitch forever (his 26 years is only bested by Nolan Ryan). Though not an overpowering pitcher, John also didn't allow home runs – as he gave up only 302 in 26 years (20 was his high, 7 his low in a year he threw 200 innings). 3 times he had the lowest HR/9 in the AL, and would also lead the league in SHOs 3 times.

With what was arguably the greatest knuckleball of all time, southpaw Wilbur Wood was an enigma during his time, and elite reliever who became an elite starter. From 67 through 72, Wood was one of the best pitchers in the AL – posting sub 2.00 ERAs twice and finishing the 6 year period with a 2.34 accumulated ERA. His knuckler was so hard to hit that he struck out 602 batter in 3 years from 1971-1973. He would finish in the top 5 in the Cy Young voting each of those 3 years.

Rivera is widely considered the best closer in MLB history. MLB records in GF (952), saves (652) and ERA+ (205). His career 1.000 WHIP is the lowest of any pitcher in nearly 100 years (Ed Walsh retired 1917). Opposing batters had a career .555 OPS as Rivera was largely unhittable his entire career.

Widely considered one of the best left handed relievers in MLB history – Hiller had great success as a reliever, especially against left handed hitters. Hiller led the AL in saves in 1973 (38) and had 125 for his career, but he was equally successful when in non save situations.

Tekulve proved his value as a relief pitcher for 16 years, logging more relief innings than any other pitcher in MLB history (1436.2). 4 times, Tekulve led the league in appearances, topping 90 3 times (MLB record), and also led the league in GF 3 times.

Mike Marshall is another guy who has to get respect when talking about relievers. He holds the MLB record for G (106), GF (84, he's also #2 with 83) and innings pitched (208.1) as a reliever. Along with Tekulve, he holds the record for most 90 appearance seasons – combined they account for 6 of the 9 in history. He became the first relief pitcher to win the Cy Young award in 1974.

My rotation is built on guys who keep free passes to a minimum, pitch smart and keep the ball in the ball park. My bull pen is built around pitchers who can fill their roles. I hate it when people build a bull pen and stock it with players who were only good at closing, assuming that means they can come in in the 7th , it just doesn't work that way. My relievers all closed, but other than Rivera (who is my closer), they all excelled outside of closing situations as well.

 

[blstoker]

Me

 

[Ritzarmy]

I got 500 because of his rotation. Both lineups are outstanding so it came down to rotation where I give 500 the edge. Plus Stoke lost points with me for making read. I had to read at work (school) and now that asshole made me have to read a amazing novel on stats.

 

[femurov]

Jesus, that is a lot of words above me. I did not even start to read it. I vote for 500, not because Stoke tried to make me read a novel, but because Stoke has weak pitching (in this mock) and 5's lineup would pound them.

 

[Shanemansj13]

I feel like 500 has a better middle of the order lineup but as a whole I like Stokes. I also think 500 has better 1-2 punch but like Stokes as a whole. I love Stokes bullpen.

Stoke barely wins this

 

[blstoker]

Man, everyone complaining.... is it my fault I have the better team and wrote "Gone with the Wind" about it

 

[femurov]

Man, everyone complaining.... is it my fault I have the better team and wrote "Gone with the Wind" about it

Didn't anyone tell you how lazy we are?

 

[UK Cowboy]

Both teams have a strong 1-2 punch in the rotation and speed at the top of the lineup, but 500 has so much more power.. I feel like a power hitter or two in the middle of Stokes order might have changed it, but gotta go 500 here

500

 

[blstoker]

Didn't anyone tell you how lazy we are?

Hey, this is the first draft Nos hasn't said I couldn't write my mock up.

My line up's per player:

2302 G, 8392 AB, 1476 R, 2556 H, 504 HR, 87 3B, 286 HR, 1275 RBI, 333 SB, 1109 BB, 1086 K, .305 BA, .388 OBP, .488 SLG, .876 OPS

 

[blstoker]

Would this have made everyone happier?

Overall, the line up is constructed to be a well rounded offense. Though the line up has players who can
hit home runs with 5 players with 300 or more career home runs (Henderson had 297 as well), it isn't built around such boom or bust principles. 5 players hit 500+ doubles (Walker also had 471), 3 hit 100+ triples, 5 stole 200+ bases (Robinson also had 197), 6 hit .300+ BA, 6 with .400+ OBP and 4 with .500+ slugging. Every player but Rodriguez has an OPS of .850+, and he's at .798. From top to bottom, this line up is designed to get on base often and hit them in, hell – 6 of the players walked more than they struck out.

My rotation is built on guys who keep free passes to a minimum, pitch smart and keep the ball in the ball park. My bull pen is built around pitchers who can fill their roles. I hate it when people build a bull pen and stock it with players who were only good at closing, assuming that means they can come in in the 7th , it just doesn't work that way. My relievers all closed, but other than Rivera (who is my closer), they all excelled outside of closing situations as well.

 

[UK Cowboy]

By the way Stoke, I really like you and respect your knowledge....but there's no way I'm reading all that shit

 

[blstoker]

By the way Stoke, I really like you and respect your knowledge....but there's no way I'm reading all that shit

Had you read it - you would know my team was better

 

[Ritzarmy]

By the way Stoke, I really like you and respect your knowledge....but there's no way I'm reading all that shit

Couldn't agree more with this statement ^^^ well except for the word shit. Don't feel his words are shit but most likely factual information but I will never know because I have to work tomorrow and don't feel I can read it all by then.

 

[UK Cowboy]

Had you read it - you would know my team was better

I was going to, but thought I'd read something shorter, like all 5 volumes of Game of Thrones...

 

[Shanemansj13]

I didn't read a damn thing lmao

 

[Shanemansj13]

Do you really need a 300 page essay on Sammy Sosa's career