Week 2 updates

UK Cowboy · Sep 14, 2019

jarntt said:
Apples and oranges. Cooper had proven to be a star on the field for a few years. Fitzpatrick doesn't even start. Plus we don't need a nickel corner we go 4 deep at CB. So while for some teams that may be part of what they want out of Fitzpatrick, for us it is safety only. If you give up a first for a guy he needs to be a star. I don't see the Cowboys even considering a 1st here

Fitz is in a dumpster fire that is tanking. He is being asked to play 3-4 different positions and it changes by the week. Dallas may not offer a 1st, but the Dolphins will get a 1 for this kid. I also have to disagree with you on what we need. We may be fine for this year, but there is no way we are keeping all the talent we currently have in the secondary. Fitz would be a long term starter here

jarntt · Sep 14, 2019

UK Cowboy said:
Fitz is in a dumpster fire that is tanking. He is being asked to play 3-4 different positions and it changes by the week. Dallas may not offer a 1st, but the Dolphins will get a 1 for this kid. I also have to disagree with you on what we need. We may be fine for this year, but there is no way we are keeping all the talent we currently have in the secondary. Fitz would be a long term starter here

I think most are overrating him based on College and draft stock. Once you enter the NFL that is the tape that matters. At least crack Miami's starting lineup if you are going to bring up a 1st

Let's say we let Jones go for money reasons. We still have Awuzie, Brown and Lewis plus some young kids the team seems to like. You don't use a 1st there to upgrade. The benefit isn't close to being worth the cost at CB. You use a 1st to get a superstar or upgrade a huge weakness or both. Is he better than those guys? Probably but we don't know for sure and certainly not worth using a 1st round pick to go from Brown or Lewis at the slot to Fitzpatrick. For us he is either a star safety or not worth an early pick. We aren't giving up a 1st for his slot corner play.

UK Cowboy · Sep 14, 2019

jarntt said:
I think most are overrating him based on College and draft stock. Once you enter the NFL that is the tape that matters. At least crack Miami's starting lineup if you are going to bring up a 1st

Let's say we let Jones go for money reasons. We still have Awuzie, Brown and Lewis plus some young kids the team seems to like. You don't use a 1st there to upgrade. The benefit isn't close to being worth the cost at CB. You use a 1st to get a superstar or upgrade a huge weakness or both. Is he better than those guys? Probably but we don't know for sure and certainly not worth using a 1st round pick to go from Brown or Lewis at the slot to Fitzpatrick. For us he is either a star safety or not worth an early pick. We aren't giving up a 1st for his slot corner play.

I'm going off breakdowns I've watched from his play last year.
As far as cracking Miami's ''tanking'' lineup...last year, he started 11 of 16 games as a rookie. Interestingly, Byron Jones, who I think you would agree is a stud, started 11 of 16 for us as a rookie, and totaled 65 tackles and no picks as a rookie. As a 2nd year player, Jones had 81 tackles and 1 pick while still playing multiple positions. As a rookie, Fitzpatrick had 80 tackles and 2 picks, one a pick 6. He is only 22, and considering we wouldn't have to pay a signing bonus and would still control him for four years, he would be a great value against the cap. And if the Cowboys are picking 28-32 as I suspect, he would be well worth it. JMO, I know the Eagles, Patriots and Seahawks have all called about him as well, so it will be interesting to see where his price ends up

jarntt · Sep 14, 2019

UK Cowboy said:
I'm going off breakdowns I've watched from his play last year.
As far as cracking Miami's ''tanking'' lineup...last year, he started 11 of 16 games as a rookie. Interestingly, Byron Jones, who I think you would agree is a stud, started 11 of 16 for us as a rookie, and totaled 65 tackles and no picks as a rookie. As a 2nd year player, Jones had 81 tackles and 1 pick while still playing multiple positions. As a rookie, Fitzpatrick had 80 tackles and 2 picks, one a pick 6. He is only 22, and considering we wouldn't have to pay a signing bonus and would still control him for four years, he would be a great value against the cap. And if the Cowboys are picking 28-32 as I suspect, he would be well worth it. JMO, I know the Eagles, Patriots and Seahawks have all called about him as well, so it will be interesting to see where his price ends up

Agree with all. It is just not worth a 1st for us as a CB. It just isn't. We are deep there and you don't use a 1st to upgrade a position of strength unless it is a superstar and we don't know what this kid is yet. First round picks are like gold. Safety maybe if they think the kid is a future star. Not nickel CB. For me it's Taco and a 3rd or let him go elsewhere. I could see a 2nd if they really love this kid. I'll be pissed if we offer a 1st.

UK Cowboy · Sep 14, 2019

jarntt said:
Agree with all. It is just not worth a 1st for us as a CB. It just isn't. We are deep there and you don't use a 1st to upgrade a position of strength unless it is a superstar and we don't know what this kid is yet. First round picks are like gold. Safety maybe if they think the kid is a future star. Not nickel CB. For me it's Taco and a 3rd or let him go elsewhere. I could see a 2nd if they really love this kid. I'll be pissed if we offer a 1st.

I'm good with whatever they decide. You and I could have done as well as Jerry at drafting and trading for players but Stephen and Will are kicking ass

ArlingtonCowboys100 · Sep 14, 2019

I would trade a 1st for fitz. We would be getting a talented player under contract for the next 3 seasons. Yeah it's a gamble,but that 1st round pick likely will be at the bottom of the 1st round. I am just saying that I would give up a pick at the bottom of the 1st round if it sends heath to backup duty. This defense could be elite,but not with heath starting

ArlingtonCowboys100 · Sep 14, 2019

UK Cowboy said:
I'm good with whatever they decide. You and I could have done as well as Jerry at drafting and trading for players but Stephen and Will are kicking ass

I agree with you. Watching drafts orchestrated by jerry pisst me off. I was furious on draft day until mcclay showed up. All of the trade downs jerry did trying to look smart or whatever really made my blood boil. Very few of those small school projects worked out. Yeah he found something in LA,but I give him only slight credit with DWare as he was a projected high pick entering the draft because he was a freak. The other small school guys ended up as stiffs. Jerry passed on too many good players and randy moss was a major one that really killed the team for years.

Manster7588 · Sep 14, 2019

UK Cowboy said:
Fitz is in a dumpster fire that is tanking. He is being asked to play 3-4 different positions and it changes by the week. Dallas may not offer a 1st, but the Dolphins will get a 1 for this kid. I also have to disagree with you on what we need. We may be fine for this year, but there is no way we are keeping all the talent we currently have in the secondary. Fitz would be a long term starter here

Then let him play elsewhere.

UK Cowboy · Sep 14, 2019

Manster7588 said:
Then let him play elsewhere.

He was 11 overall a year ago. We will be picking 26-32 this year. I don't see the problem with a late 1st

Manster7588 · Sep 15, 2019

UK Cowboy said:
He was 11 overall a year ago. We will be picking 26-32 this year. I don't see the problem with a late 1st

OK so he was drafted 11, has he played like an 11 since then?

Taco and a 3, no more than Taco and a 2 though IMO.

UK Cowboy · Sep 15, 2019

Manster7588 said:
OK so he was drafted 11, has he played like an 11 since then?

Taco and a 3, no more than Taco and a 2 though IMO.

Yeah, I think so. I posted a comparison between his rookie season and Byron Jones rookie season earlier. He was simply better as a rookie. In Dallas, under Richard, I think he becomes a star. Plus he is cheap and here four years

ROMOTOOWENS · Sep 15, 2019

I know the guy is hurt but what if it was Derwin James. James went after Fitz I think.

ROMOTOOWENS · Sep 15, 2019

I know you cant play that game. Derwin James had a monster season last year, so that’s unfair to do.

jarntt · Sep 15, 2019

ROMOTOOWENS said:
I know you cant play that game. Derwin James had a monster season last year, so that’s unfair to do.

But that is exactly the big difference. A guy you KNOW (if he was healthy) will be a really good player vs a guy you hope will be a really good player. You don't take chances trading first rounders :2cents:

Sir Robin Of Camelot · Sep 15, 2019

Manster7588 said:
OK so he was drafted 11, has he played like an 11 since then?

Taco and a 3, no more than Taco and a 2 though IMO.

Got a feeling the Dolphins will be able to get Taco at a lot cheaper price after this weekend.

jarntt · Sep 15, 2019

Sir Robin Of Camelot said:
Got a feeling the Dolphins will be able to get Taco at a lot cheaper price after this weekend.

i would play the kid. He wants out. He may play his ass off and we benefit by getting good play and also upping his value. Unless something already in the works, as of now teams are going to just wait for him to be cut or his value to be like a 5th rounder. They are sitting back watching us not even make him active.

ROMOTOOWENS · Sep 15, 2019

jarntt said:
But that is exactly the big difference. A guy you KNOW (if he was healthy) will be a really good player vs a guy you hope will be a really good player. You don't take chances trading first rounders

But in saying that I would have traded a 1st rounder for Landon Collins after year 1 as well, but after year 3, that would have been a bad move probably. Now he will likely have 2 picks today and change the game since I said that, but he doesn’t seem to be as good

ROMOTOOWENS · Sep 15, 2019

I was so pissed we didn’t trade up for Derwin James. We got stuck with Vander something.

Sir Robin Of Camelot · Sep 15, 2019

jarntt said:
i would play the kid. He wants out. He may play his ass off and we benefit by getting good play and also upping his value. Unless something already in the works, as of now teams are going to just wait for him to be cut or his value to be like a 5th rounder. They are sitting back watching us not even make him active.

This is one of “those” situations where you really would like to know what is happening behind the scenes. The dude actually had a pretty good preseason and it seemed like he would be part of the equation even when Quinn comes back... and all the sudden we get here. Whether via trade or cut... or if they just keep his ass on the inactive list, he has clearly pissed the wrong people off for some reason.

PDay8810 · Sep 15, 2019

Sir Robin Of Camelot said:
This is one of “those” situations where you really would like to know what is happening behind the scenes

it's been said locally that Taco has been told to keep his chin up on countless occasions and the coaches have become tired of it

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