Oh, hell no!

[ehb5]

Y'all are totally missing it Kirk is smart, athletic, accurate passer, competitive and a hard worker from all the reports I have ever heard. Therefore I think he can make it to "elite" status. We will regret it horribly if he walks

Anybody can become elite. Few actually do. Wether you love kirk or hate him the odds of him becoming elite are slim.

 

[Stymietee]

Hey @Shark, Remember this? ( I got the clown part wrong it was circus monkey)

Forget about this. Build a line that can run on anyone, and you could park bobo the circus monkey back there. We have failed over 20 years to try and install a high powered passing attack that can be consistent. We need to stop wasting time trying to be the greatest show on grass, and go back to what we were when we were a good football team. IM all in for beefing up the line, but it should be about making the ground game dominant, not in some grand attempt to become this exciting passing team. That has obviously failed multiple times over the past 20 years, time to really go back to our roots.

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Sep 30, 2014 #96

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[Sharkinva]

Hey @Shark, Remember this? ( I got the clown part wrong it was circus monkey)

Forget about this. Build a line that can run on anyone, and you could park bobo the circus monkey back there. We have failed over 20 years to try and install a high powered passing attack that can be consistent. We need to stop wasting time trying to be the greatest show on grass, and go back to what we were when we were a good football team. IM all in for beefing up the line, but it should be about making the ground game dominant, not in some grand attempt to become this exciting passing team. That has obviously failed multiple times over the past 20 years, time to really go back to our roots.

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Sep 30, 2014 #96

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Good catch. And I still think we need to improve our ground game. Funny thing is, we actually have a decent QB after 20 plus years and you want to deal him and keep chasing the elite QB. And by the way, we had Bobo under center in 2014.. and we finished 3-13.

 

[Sportster 72]

Sorry man, getting them to stop just isn't possible. Funny thing is it's perfectly understandable if you factor in B.F.S. (Battered Fan Syndrome). This happens when any little good thing is seen as the place where they want to be. Just re-read their posts and you'll discover the truth in this. In them there are justifications such as, "it's the best that we've done in 20 years."...... "Nearly 5000 yards and records broken." and my personal favorite "Who are we going to get that's better?"

Well, just like a battered mate, those things SEEM optimistic, but in truth it's settling for decent when everything that's come before was at best, very uncomfortable or painfully inadequate. The interesting thing is that we've had a fairly recent experiment along these same lines, when we had a kicker named Kai Forbath, who also exhibited the same traits as Cousins. "Best that we've had"....."Record setter".....and when I suggested that we get rid of him because we can do better, the question...."Who are we going to get that's better."

Interesting spin by you in this case and some others. This is more commonly known as taking what you want out of conversation to make your point seem valid. In the end as I have said before you won't change my mind and I won't change yours so I cool with you being wrong.

 

[Stymietee]

Good catch. And I still think we need to improve our ground game. Funny thing is, we actually have a decent QB after 20 plus years and you want to deal him and keep chasing the elite QB. And by the way, we had Bobo under center in 2014.. and we finished 3-13.

I don't want to deal him, just being consistent with my focus on upgrading. Like I've said over and over, if he goes he goes and if he stays he stays. Either way we must continue to upgrade.

 

[Stymietee]

Interesting spin by you in this case and some others. This is more commonly known as taking what you want out of conversation to make your point seem valid. In the end as I have said before you won't change my mind and I won't change yours so I cool with you being wrong.

There's nothing wrong about what I wrote. That crap actually happened, the first time was when I was the first here calling for the firing of Bruce Allen. The second after I again was the first here calling for Forbath to be replaced, and now, as we wait, unsure that Kirk will ever take another snap for our team, it's not wrong to prepare for that either. Even if he returns, it's not wrong to seek an upgrade at the spot.

When I insist that we upgrade at the position, others put labels on that, labels which ranged everywhere from me " wanting him gone," to" hater" to not being a "true" fan. To me that's their issue, not mine. Interesting thing is that YOU actually agreed with me on the last point (always upgrading)

BTW: I'm not here to change or even attempt to change anyone's mind, that would be a rather meaningless exercise considering the odometer for most here appears to have hit or exceeded 50 and if they have not figured it out by now, TIME is both a cruel mistress and an outstanding teacher. If you want to be "right" and say that I'm "wrong," that's cool, it's your right to do so, just remember time has a way of making corrections.

 

[Breed]

Good catch. And I still think we need to improve our ground game. Funny thing is, we actually have a decent QB after 20 plus years and you want to deal him and keep chasing the elite QB. And by the way, we had Bobo under center in 2014.. and we finished 3-13.

Not that I necessarily with Sty, but.................

There you go again. A poster just laid out what he wants to happen far as our offense goes. Build up an OL all across the board. Tackle to tackle with the ability/prowess to consistently and successfully run the ball on the rest of the 31 teams in the NFL.

Sty didn't say anything about dealing KC or anything about attaining/trying to get an elite QB. The one and only gist of his post was improving the OL. To a level of such road-grading effectiveness that an elite QB wouldn't be necessary to have or attain. Yet you can't get past 3 sentences w/o saying Sty wants to deal Kirk and chase an elite QB.

 

[Sharkinva]

Not that I necessarily with Sty, but.................

There you go again. A poster just laid out what he wants to happen far as our offense goes. Build up an OL all across the board. Tackle to tackle with the ability/prowess to consistently and successfully run the ball on the rest of the 31 teams in the NFL.

Sty didn't say anything about dealing KC or anything about attaining/trying to get an elite QB. The one and only gist of his post was improving the OL. To a level of such road-grading effectiveness that an elite QB wouldn't be necessary to have or attain. Yet you can't get past 3 sentences w/o saying Sty wants to deal Kirk and chase an elite QB.

Breed.. I think you know my real issue with Sty's we should always be looking to upgrade especially at the QB position. This was not his stance when it came to the QB position UNTIL Kirk was made the starter. So yea i do think there is a bit of an ulterior motive to that tag line. And I might be testing the memory cells a bit, but Sty was all for dealing Kirk back in 2014 and rather against the idea of competition at the QB position at that time.

And yea, if the line of thinking is we can simply replace what most of the planet considers an above average QB then yea... we are at that point chasing elite.

 

[Sharkinva]

Not that I necessarily with Sty, but.................

There you go again. A poster just laid out what he wants to happen far as our offense goes. Build up an OL all across the board. Tackle to tackle with the ability/prowess to consistently and successfully run the ball on the rest of the 31 teams in the NFL.

Sty didn't say anything about dealing KC or anything about attaining/trying to get an elite QB. The one and only gist of his post was improving the OL. To a level of such road-grading effectiveness that an elite QB wouldn't be necessary to have or attain. Yet you can't get past 3 sentences w/o saying Sty wants to deal Kirk and chase an elite QB.

Side note Breed.. Sty was quoting ME when talking about building up the line and the ground game. So your point was??

 

[gkekoa]

I was the first to call for Bruce Allen to be gone because I said he never should have been brought in

 

[Sportster 72]

Bruce Allen isn't going anywhere.

 

[Sharkinva]

Anybody can become elite. Few actually do. Wether you love kirk or hate him the odds of him becoming elite are slim.

True. But the odds of us finding an elite QB either in this draft or via a trade this year are slimmer. So given the choice between an above average QB at a premium price, or another 1-25 year search to simply find another above average QB... whats more logical??

 

[Stymietee]

I was the first to call for Bruce Allen to be gone because I said he never should have been brought in

Not true on this site!

 

[Breed]

Side note Breed.. Sty was quoting ME when talking about building up the line and the ground game. So your point was??

Really eh. Well than instead of disagreeing with Sty. I disagree with you. No matter how fierce your OL and run game is. At some point your QB in going to have to make a play or multiple plays or multiple drives in order to win a game. With an OL and run game of which you speak. Kirk would be a good QB to have. But then the questions must be asked. Why does a QB on an offense like that need to be paid top tier dollars? Answer for me is, he shouldn't. And if you pay a QB top tier dollars. Will you ever be able to accumulate an offense like that? I'd say nope, you won't.

 

[ehb5]

True. But the odds of us finding an elite QB either in this draft or via a trade this year are slimmer. So given the choice between an above average QB at a premium price, or another 1-25 year search to simply find another above average QB... whats more logical??

Was only replying to httrs post. No other point was being made than what I said.

 

[Sharkinva]

Really eh. Well than instead of disagreeing with Sty. I disagree with you. No matter how fierce your OL and run game is. At some point your QB in going to have to make a play or multiple plays or multiple drives in order to win a game. With an OL and run game of which you speak. Kirk would be a good QB to have. But then the questions must be asked. Why does a QB on an offense like that need to be paid top tier dollars? Answer for me is, you shouldn't. And if you pay a QB top tier dollars. Will you ever be able to accumulate an offense like that? I'd say nope, you won't.

Thing is, with Kirk aside from a truly dominant RB, we actually have that offense already. Keep Kirk (Yes I know he will be expensive) Upgrade the LG position and find a RB that can actually be productive in the redzone and we have a dominant offense period. Now yes, Kirk does need to improve. But I would rather have him Improve here, than watch him go win a Lombardi with another team like say Brad Johnson did because we were once again more impressed with where a guy was drafted than how he helped our team.

 

[Breed]

Thing is, with Kirk aside from a truly dominant RB, we actually have that offense already. Keep Kirk (Yes I know he will be expensive) Upgrade the LG position and find a RB that can actually be productive in the redzone and we have a dominant offense period. Now yes, Kirk does need to improve. But I would rather have him Improve here, than watch him go win a Lombardi with another team like say Brad Johnson did because we were once again more impressed with where a guy was drafted than how he helped our team.

So upgrade the LG spot and find a productive red zone RB. Will also probably have to acquire at least 1 WR, possibly 2 WRs and have a decent TE to back up a could be sidelined indefinitely at any time Reed due to his concussion issues. Upgrade the defense with at least 2 DL players. Upgrade at LB with 2 ILBs and in the secondary will need at least 1 CB as 3 good CBs are mandatory now and for sure 1 safety and that's if Cravens works out, If he doesn't though 2 safeties.

And on top of all that need to pay Kirk Cousins as much or more than any QB has ever made up to that point. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 80 million dollars guaranteed. In part because Kirk is looking out for future QBs.

 

[gkekoa]

Not true on this site!

True on every site. I was never a fan of Allen because he was brought here to manipulate the cap which I believe gets people in trouble.

I am also a fan of success...something Allen never really had.

 

[Sharkinva]

So upgrade the LG spot and find a productive red zone RB. Will also probably have to acquire at least 1 WR, possibly 2 WRs and have a decent TE to back up a could be sidelined indefinitely at any time Reed due to his concussion issues. Upgrade the defense with at least 2 DL players. Upgrade at LB with 2 ILBs and in the secondary will need at least 1 CB as 3 good CBs are mandatory now and for sure 1 safety and that's if Cravens works out, If he doesn't though 2 safeties.

And on top of all that need to pay Kirk Cousins as much or more than any QB has ever made up to that point. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 80 million dollars guaranteed. In part because Kirk is looking out for future QBs.

If we only had $10M in cap space you might have a really good point. But the reality is, AFTER tagging Kirk, we have about $40 Million in cap space. After making two cuts that need to happen (Hall and Lavaou) That should put us at just shy of $50M. Kirk on a long term deal should take us up to $55M in cap space. If we cant find a Starting LG, a good RB, 2 D-lineman an ILB and a safety with $55M then the entire front office needs to be fired. This doesnt even take into account the ten draft picks we have.

But I guess rolling with Colt because he is cheaper, and then wondering if we are going to make another bone headed trade for a QB seems more logical?

The best thing about keeping Kirk in my opinion is that it should prevent us from making another stupid trade at least for a few seasons one would hope. And if all we get out of it is a QB capable of 4500 yards a season that isnt prone to throwing his coaches and team mates under the bus.... Im ok with that.

 

[Stymietee]

Breed.. I think you know my real issue with Sty's we should always be looking to upgrade especially at the QB position. This was not his stance when it came to the QB position UNTIL Kirk was made the starter. So yea i do think there is a bit of an ulterior motive to that tag line. And I might be testing the memory cells a bit, but Sty was all for dealing Kirk back in 2014 and rather against the idea of competition at the QB position at that time.

And yea, if the line of thinking is we can simply replace what most of the planet considers an above average QB then yea... we are at that point chasing elite.

Let's revisit shall we.....Back when Griffith was the starter, I originally said that he should have sat and learned and that he was being mishandled, remember that? Once he was named the starter, I said that we had the wrong type of back-up for him since we were going with the type of QB and offense that we had. So it was under that circumstance that I said we should trade Kirk and bring in a QB better suited for that offensive style. So yeah upgrading was and always will remain a thing for me. Keep in mind, Kirk wasn't the starter then!!

I believe that you have a real addictive thing for RG3, dude has been gone for some time now and you're still slinging out references to him. The connection(s) that you're trying to make just aren't there. Almost everyone here was behind him at first, not so much later. You could be right though, when attempting to make those connections, your memory could be the issue, but hell, I believe that I'm the oldest poster here and I know that from time to time I have to refresh mine.

BTW: I was not alone with calls to get rid of Kirk in 2014, Dude was a turnover machine back then, he followed his 2013 season (4 TD's vs, 7 ints) with a 2014 season (10 TD's vs. 9 ints) and he went into this sideline funk with every pick. He really didn't have much support on this site back then. I believe that the ONLY person here who supported Kirk was the SportsHoopla night janitor who talks about soccer when the subject is football.