and so it begins

[Breed]

So Cousins is responsible for a coaching staff that appears to not favor the run even near the goal line? Was Cousins also the one calling for all of those silly fade patterns that failed? Sure he can perhaps audible out of some of these, but these mainly fall on the coaching staff.

As a matter of fact. Someone did post I believe, a couple days after the Dallas game, saying KC did in fact call at least one of the fades.

for missing plays - sure - all QBs miss plays. If you are going to analyze an entire game w/ the intent of looking for mistakes from any player - including QB - you are going to find your share. I could show you QBs missing wide open targets for almost every team. You have to consider the entire situation in terms pressure & other factors. Lord knows that RG3 missed tons of wide open targets during his tenure. I think that KC does more than adequate in this area & is improving every game. If anyone has a major issue with Cousins performance in the Bengals game than I think that they are nuts. Again - he put them in position to win the game. They failed because of a missed FG & a terrible 4th & short call by Gruden & co.

People need to get past the mindset that the QB is responsible for everything with the offense.

What makes you assume I didn't consider the entire situation or other factors. When I speak on plays I feel KC missed? Far as this particular issue goes. I speak on 4 plays in total that I feel KC missed and whatever the situation was, I know this. KC had more than adequate times to throw the ball and on two of plays. I find hard to fathom that he didn't see the WR I think he should've went to.

Play 1) Pitt game - in the red zone on 2nd down and 7 I believe from the Pitt 13 yd ln. KC throws a pass to Reed being covered by Shazier. A) He had a small window to throw to Reed imo, but he waited too long. Had he looked to his left, which he never did, He'd of seen Chris Thompson, who was lined up wide left, had beaten his man, another LB and was open. Oh, and Garcon was running a cross, left to right, on the play and he was wide open as well. I doubt he scores on the play, but gets the first down.

Play 2) Pitt game - KC's very first INT of the year, a forced pass to Reed who on the left side of the field and was bracketed by 3 Steelers defenders. While on the right side of the field looking to be in the slot position. Vernon Davis ran straight up the field accounted for by no one it seems, never mind being covered and has an easy TD. Again, KC had plenty of time and again he appeared locked onto to Reed from the outset.

Play 3) NYG game - Had Garcon wide open for what would've been a 75 yard TD, but instead throws and completes a 31 yd pass to Djax. As Djax was running a deep cross, from right to left, and into the area Garcon was just coming out of. There really no way I don't see how he didn't see Garcon. Troy Aikman even made mention of it immediately after the play. Next play was a 44 yd TD to Dax so no biggie there.

Play 4)The play I made mention of in the post you quoted. Notice I asked some questions because I wasn't 100% sure of the situation. But from where I'm sitting, which was right here during the game. It sure looked like Grant was wide open and has a great shot at a TD if KC hits him in stride. And if that's the case. Then you can add that play to your failed list, with the missed FG by Hopkins and the stupid call on 4th and 1, to your why the Skins lost list.

The biggest difference between you and I, I think is this. You're ready for the Skins to offer KC a long term deal. I am not. I like KC, he's easy to root for, I don't think he;ll turn into a class A dickhead like Griff did and I truly want him to succeed. He'd be great as the face of the Redskins.

 

[skinsdad62]

As a matter of fact. Someone did post I believe, a couple days after the Dallas game, saying KC did in fact call at least one of the fades.



What makes you assume I didn't consider the entire situation or other factors. When I speak on plays I feel KC missed? Far as this particular issue goes. I speak on 4 plays in total that I feel KC missed and whatever the situation was, I know this. KC had more than adequate times to throw the ball and on two of plays. I find hard to fathom that he didn't see the WR I think he should've went to.

Play 1) Pitt game - in the red zone on 2nd down and 7 I believe from the Pitt 13 yd ln. KC throws a pass to Reed being covered by Shazier. A) He had a small window to throw to Reed imo, but he waited too long. Had he looked to his left, which he never did, He'd of seen Chris Thompson, who was lined up wide left, had beaten his man, another LB and was open. Oh, and Garcon was running a cross, left to right, on the play and he was wide open as well. I doubt he scores on the play, but gets the first down.

Play 2) Pitt game - KC's very first INT of the year, a forced pass to Reed who on the left side of the field and was bracketed by 3 Steelers defenders. While on the right side of the field looking to be in the slot position. Vernon Davis ran straight up the field accounted for by no one it seems, never mind being covered and has an easy TD. Again, KC had plenty of time and again he appeared locked onto to Reed from the outset.

Play 3) NYG game - Had Garcon wide open for what would've been a 75 yard TD, but instead throws and completes a 31 yd pass to Djax. As Djax was running a deep cross, from right to left, and into the area Garcon was just coming out of. There really no way I don't see how he didn't see Garcon. Troy Aikman even made mention of it immediately after the play. Next play was a 44 yd TD to Dax so no biggie there.

Play 4)The play I made mention of in the post you quoted. Notice I asked some questions because I wasn't 100% sure of the situation. But from where I'm sitting, which was right here during the game. It sure looked like Grant was wide open and has a great shot at a TD if KC hits him in stride. And if that's the case. Then you can add that play to your failed list, with the missed FG by Hopkins and the stupid call on 4th and 1, to your why the Skins lost list.

The biggest difference between you and I, I think is this. You're ready for the Skins to offer KC a long term deal. I am not. I like KC, he's easy to root for, I don't think he;ll turn into a class A dickhead like Griff did and I truly want him to succeed. He'd be great as the face of the Redskins.

so if i am reading this right (and i am not saying i am for the record ) 4 plays out of 333 pass attempts (sacks included) over ride the rest ?

KC is what he is and that is avg to above avg . he cant carry a team and occasionally he might make a big play or 2 . if you give him good talent we can compete but some days he will frustrate you

the question is do you pay market value for him and if not where is the viable alternative ? the other question is do you possibly over pay for what he offers ?

and are you willing to ride colt mccoy till a viable long term solution is obtained ? do you think nate is the future ?

now i am just probing to see where you are at not persecuting you i certainly can see how you could feel the way you do about not being sold

 

[Breed]

so if i am reading this right (and i am not saying i am for the record ) 4 plays out of 333 pass attempts (sacks included) over ride the rest ?

Those are plays where I think KC should've thrown to another WR. They aren't the only mistakes I think KC has made.

KC is what he is and that is avg to above avg . he cant carry a team and occasionally he might make a big play or 2 . if you give him good talent we can compete but some days he will frustrate you

Some people already believe he's carrying the team it seems.

the question is do you pay market value for him and if not where is the viable alternative ? the other question is do you possibly over pay for what he offers ?

and are you willing to ride colt mccoy till a viable long term solution is obtained ? do you think nate is the future ?

now i am just probing to see where you are at not persecuting you i certainly can see how you could feel the way you do about not being sold

To questions 1 and 2 - I don't know. I'd feel more comfortable franchising him again. Messing up the cap for one year is one thing. Hanging an albatross around one's neck for 5 to 7 years in another. From what I've seen up to this point. People say letting him go will set the Skins back 2 or 3 years. How far will it set the Skins back if they give him 120 million dollars and we've already seen as good as its gonna get?

To question 3 I'm not on the Colt McCoy bandwagon. Its a little funk to me that he has one. He's a good kid, who led the team to a win in a prime time game against a divisional opponent. That was cool, real cool, but that's about the extent that Colt can take this team imo. I did think the Dallas win afforded him the opportunity to start against the Vikes the following week. The Skins were dealing with a QB issue of another though as I recall. I have no clue about Nate. He saw him a couple nice passes in preseason that's about it.

No worries. I don't feel as if you're trying to persecute me. You just wanna know where I stand. That's cool. So, I look at Kirk and see some nice things far as comp % and yardage. TD passing-wise and gettin it done in the red zone-wise, not so much.

I mean I see people say he's in the Dalton, Bradford etc range. If that's the case I guess sign to a similar contract as what they have. I don't see us winning a Super Bowl with that type of QB unless everything else goes absolutely right for the Skins. That's what matters to me, that's all that matters really. I could care less how good of a QB he is fantasy football-wise or if he sets every major Redskins QB record. Or if he leads the league in comp% or anything else. I just would like top see the Skins win another Super Bowl or two.

 

[skinsdad62]

Those are plays where I think KC should've thrown to another WR. They aren't the only mistakes I think KC has made.



Some people already believe he's carrying the team it seems.



To questions 1 and 2 - I don't know. I'd feel more comfortable franchising him again. Messing up the cap for one year is one thing. Hanging an albatross around one's neck for 5 to 7 years in another. From what I've seen up to this point. People say letting him go will set the Skins back 2 or 3 years. How far will it set the Skins back if they give him 120 million dollars and we've already seen as good as its gonna get?

To question 3 I'm not on the Colt McCoy bandwagon. Its a little funk to me that he has one. He's a good kid, who led the team to a win in a prime time game against a divisional opponent. That was cool, real cool, but that's about the extent that Colt can take this team imo. I did think the Dallas win afforded him the opportunity to start against the Vikes the following week. The Skins were dealing with a QB issue of another though as I recall. I have no clue about Nate. He saw him a couple nice passes in preseason that's about it.

No worries. I don't feel as if you're trying to persecute me. You just wanna know where I stand. That's cool. So, I look at Kirk and see some nice things far as comp % and yardage. TD passing-wise and gettin it done in the red zone-wise, not so much.

I mean I see people say he's in the Dalton, Bradford etc range. If that's the case I guess sign to a similar contract as what they have. I don't see us winning a Super Bowl with that type of QB unless everything else goes absolutely right for the Skins. That's what matters to me, that's all that matters really. I could care less how good of a QB he is fantasy football-wise or if he sets every major Redskins QB record. Or if he leads the league in comp% or anything else. I just would like top see the Skins win another Super Bowl or two.

i think any huge contract would have and out after 2-3 yrs but boy i am glad i dont have to make any calls like that

 

[Breed]

i think any huge contract would have and out after 2-3 yrs but boy i am glad i dont have to make any calls like that

Yeah, I wouldn't relish having to make that call on Kirk, or any player who's play has trended, swayed, whatever you wanna call it, as Kirk's has.

Hopefully we get an answer, in a positive affirmation type way, in these next 8 games.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Some fans are going to flip out when they finally sign Kirk. The number will be huge because that's what a pretty good with upside QB costs to retain. If he hit the open market can you imagine the bidding war? Just think what the Jets, Niners, Browns, Cards and several other teams would pay right now for Kirk Cousins.

 

[Stymietee]

I think this is the main problem the front office and coaches have with KC. They see a QB who is good at releasing the ball quickly to short and medium routes and specific receivers (Reed, Thompson, Crowder). But not very effective with the longer passes or going through all of his receivers. So certain personnel and their skillset, salary, etc are wasted. Plus they may view his numbers as purely based upon the wealth of targets he has to through to and the system he plays in. If they view it this way, why not pay someone else much cheaper to do the same job.

Top five QBs are supposed to produce even when they have a bunch of receivers down. KC has not shown he can carry this team or do well in these situations. Plus at times he makes poor decisions or inaccurate throws when receivers are wide open.

 

[Breed]

But not very effective with the longer passes or going through all of his receivers. So certain personnel and their skillset, salary, etc are wasted.

Interesting thought and one I've had myself. Even with Jackson, Crowder, who's shown he's plenty fast, and Vernon Davis, who's shown he's still plenty fast. The Redskins only have 4 pass plays of 40+ yards this year. And one of those was Crowder's 55 yd TD he caught behind the LOS.

 

[Sportster 72]

Let me ask this very serious question man. Why do you believe that this team with it's HC and OC sending in plays have little or no issues moving the ball between the 20 yard lines then apparently lose the ability to reach that same level of competency? I have a theory, but before giving it, I'd rather hear from someone else. Thanks!

I have explained this on numerous occasions before. Inside the red zone teams are playing zone, that is not so odd since most teams play zone defense inside the red zone. So if you read any of my previous posts I explain this. What I didn't say is we aren't much of a run threat, because of that opposing teams do not worry about defending us against the run. That means they drop 7 in the zone without the threat of the run.

 

[Sportster 72]

So you and Breed are not aware that Cousins is 8th in the league in yards per attempt?

 

[Stymietee]

So you and Breed are not aware that Cousins is 8th in the league in yards per attempt?

I hope that you noted that on one of these posts I quoted @ Burnsie but didn't write anything. It looks like my post but it isn't. I believe that this was a reference to that if not apologies.

 

[j_y19]

I have explained this on numerous occasions before. Inside the red zone teams are playing zone, that is not so odd since most teams play zone defense inside the red zone. So if you read any of my previous posts I explain this. What I didn't say is we aren't much of a run threat, because of that opposing teams do not worry about defending us against the run. That means they drop 7 in the zone without the threat of the run.

Combine this with the fact that we routinely send out 5 receivers and that amounts to 12 bodies flooding a very compact space. It's not hard to blanket everyone in these situations. And since Reed is the only really big body we have that can out muscle defenders for the ball, they just double team him. As good as Djax is, he is worthless in the red zone. Crowder is only marginally more effective in this area.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Combine this with the fact that we routinely send out 5 receivers and that amounts to 12 bodies flooding a very compact space. It's not hard to blanket everyone in these situations. And since Reed is the only really big body we have that can out muscle defenders for the ball, they just double team him. As good as Djax is, he is worthless in the red zone. Crowder is only marginally more effective in this area.

Totally agree with all of this. We need a better run game, this will help dramatically.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Totally agree with all of this. We need a better run game, this will help dramatically.

Agree. I think that the long term answer in this area is not currently with the team. No real worries - this is one of the easiest areas to fix on any team. My bigger concern would be if Gruden can somewhat let go of his pass happy philosophy & focus more on the run (perhaps that is more of a perception & not reality based but hard for me to believe).

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Agree. I think that the long term answer in this area is not currently with the team. No real worries - this is one of the easiest areas to fix on any team. My bigger concern would be if Gruden can somewhat let go of his pass happy philosophy & focus more on the run (perhaps that is more of a perception & not reality based but hard for me to believe).

I agree this is a much easier problem to solve than an offense that goes 3 and out all day long.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

To questions 1 and 2 - I don't know. I'd feel more comfortable franchising him again. Messing up the cap for one year is one thing. Hanging an albatross around one's neck for 5 to 7 years in another. From what I've seen up to this point. People say letting him go will set the Skins back 2 or 3 years. How far will it set the Skins back if they give him 120 million dollars and we've already seen as good as its gonna get?

I don't think that this is as big of an issue as some folks contend. As Skinsdad alluded to you ensure that you have some type of out clauses where you don't get stuck with the lions share of the contract if things falter in the next few years. If the sides can't agree on that then perhaps I am with you on thinking twice on a long term deal. I think that they can work it out & I truly believe that Cousins has no intention of going elsewhere especially when your main options are teams like the Browns.

BTW - I never maintained that Cousins is the end all / be all QB. I am simply stating that he is more than simply the byproduct of his weapons. Also - to pull out a handful of plays to show that he has big problems is just not the way to evaluate things. For starters you have to consider things like protection & also realize that QBs are going to make flat out mistakes sometimes. Overall I think that Cousins does a very good job (save the DAL game & perhaps the PIT game) if - again - he minimizes the killer turnovers.

Like you said the last 8 games will be the key. However - I think that this will be more in terms of him risking looking bad rather than needing to play lights out for the remainder of the season.

HTTR

 

[SoCalWizFan]

I agree this is a much easier problem to solve than an offense that goes 3 and out all day long.

Yep. I think that we need to think back over the recent past to remember how truly awful things used to be for this offense. Having a good O line is key (the future of the LT not withstanding) & hopefully they also have the QB position set. Once those are in play it makes planning a lot easier.

 

[skinsdad62]

look at TW as being injured and in 5 weeks he will be fresh . TY can hold up for 4 weeks

 

[Sportster 72]

Sty I couldn't get on all weekend (not sure if it was computer problems or I was being spanked) so I may well have missed some things.

Agree j_y, the red zone problem isn't just one problem but a number of them. I love DJax and JC but neither has shown a propensity to get open in the red zone. Also agree with 4 or 5 receivers and 7 defensive players it is kind of like trying to put 10 pounds of sugar in a 5 pound bag. Defenses are flooding the EZ and rallying up to make a tackle if we throw short.

 

[Breed]

BTW - I never maintained that Cousins is the end all / be all QB. I am simply stating that he is more than simply the byproduct of his weapons.

OK.

Also - to pull out a handful of plays to show that he has big problems is just not the way to evaluate things.

His red zone issues are imo a significant problem. KC ranking 31st in red zone QB rating would seem to indicate that as well. As for taking a handful of plays to evaluate a player. I guess that would depend. It seems no one has the Skins/Bengals recorded to check it out. If he missed on that play I mentioned as it concerns that game. That would've been the game winner for the Skins.