and so it begins

[skinsdad62]

Redskins

i like mike jones , but colt mccoy could do the same ?

now the story says that people in management dont want him then he says its his "educated opinion " so the headline is misleading

 

[Stymietee]

I heard the same broadcast and as I recall he was reported as saying that team insiders were making that claim based upon where they thought the team's W/L record would be if Colt was at the helm through 8 games. therein begins the debate to determine if GMSM's work has built a team that any competent QB can win games with....OR.....whether it is the presence of this particular QB (meaning Kirk Cousins) who makes the offensive machine work. I've got the feeling that most here will side with the latter, but as strange as it might seem to some, coaches and GM's often aren't satisfied with competent players and will look for men who's skills gets them closer to maximum efficiency. I personally believe that while Kirk has done a good job, Gruden believes that his offense by design should be much much more productive that it currently is. The question now is, does he or the current FO team trust that Kirk can be that guy. To me if they are still debating that question, as this report suggests, then the answer is....NO.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

What a load of shit. Jones indicated that this was his opinion & was not based at all on inside info. Completely unprofessional & typical of a WP reporter.

Cousins is responsible for red zone issues? LOL. This one falls squarely on Gruden & McVay. Their reluctance to use the running game enough & poorly designed calls near the goal line have hurt them more than Cousins. Also - this idea that if they get a QB on the cheap that they will be able to accumulate a massive amt of talent elsewhere is flawed. Just a bunch of nonsense (& I have been on the fence on Cousins quite often).

 

[Stymietee]

Clearly he said that this was his "educated opinion" a comment that was followed by the observation that this was "coming from someone who talks to insiders regularly" I understand why this would be disturbing to some folks, but there's the very real probability that Gruden, SM and Co. see a lack of better offensive production as being the difference between 4-3-1 and 6-2 or 7-1. It would be interesting to poll this site for opinions as to what the record might look like at this point if Colt was the starter through 8 games.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Clearly he said that this was his "educated opinion" a comment that was followed by the observation that this was "coming from someone who talks to insiders regularly" I understand why this would be disturbing to some folks, but there's the very real probability that Gruden, SM and Co. see a lack of better offensive production as being the difference between 4-3-1 and 6-2 or 7-1. It would be interesting to poll this site for opinions as to what the record might look like at this point if Colt was the starter through 8 games.

Hmm.. let's review the losses/ties & see where the blame lies.

Steelers game - they were going to lose this game regardless & a coaching decision to put Breeland on Brown was a major factor. Not Cousins fault & they would not have won with McCoy.

Cowboys game - clearly Cousins was a huge factor in this defeat. Not sure if they would have won w/ McCoy but perhaps.

Lions game - clearly not Cousins fault & he put them in position to win. Don't totally blame the defense but some poor defensive coaching down the stretch played a huge factor. Fumble by Jones was also a huge factor. McCoy would not have won this game.

Bengals tie - Again - Cousins did everything he could to put them in position to win. Gruden & co. made the terrible 4th & short call that cost them at least 3 pts. Hopkins missed the easy FG that cost them the win (not blaming the kid for anything - he is one of their better players - just pointing out facts). McCoy definitely would not have won this game.

Do fans understand that McCoy is a career backup? There is a reason why he has been on numerous teams. Don't get me wrong - he is just rt to be the Skins backup & perhaps fill in for a few games. However - this idea that he could lead this team on a playoff run is very flawed. He has had his chance in DC in elsewhere & come up short.


I have no doubt that Gruden & McVay are 100% behind Cousins. It is perhaps only SM that has doubts & I really think that even he is now on board with Cousins. I somehow think that this is just wishful thinking on your part since you never liked Cousins. I had numerous doubts about him in the recent past, but I am now seeing that he is their best hope for the future.[/QUOTE]

 

[skinsdad62]

I heard the same broadcast and as I recall he was reported as saying that team insiders were making that claim based upon where they thought the team's W/L record would be if Colt was at the helm through 8 games. therein begins the debate to determine if GMSM's work has built a team that any competent QB can win games with....OR.....whether it is the presence of this particular QB (meaning Kirk Cousins) who makes the offensive machine work. I've got the feeling that most here will side with the latter, but as strange as it might seem to some, coaches and GM's often aren't satisfied with competent players and will look for men who's skills gets them closer to maximum efficiency. I personally believe that while Kirk has done a good job, Gruden believes that his offense by design should be much much more productive that it currently is. The question now is, does he or the current FO team trust that Kirk can be that guy. To me if they are still debating that question, as this report suggests, then the answer is....NO.

is it them or mike jones ?

 

[skinsdad62]

What a load of shit. Jones indicated that this was his opinion & was not based at all on inside info. Completely unprofessional & typical of a WP reporter.

Cousins is responsible for red zone issues? LOL. This one falls squarely on Gruden & McVay. Their reluctance to use the running game enough & poorly designed calls near the goal line have hurt them more than Cousins. Also - this idea that if they get a QB on the cheap that they will be able to accumulate a massive amt of talent elsewhere is flawed. Just a bunch of nonsense (& I have been on the fence on Cousins quite often).

lets get real simplistic here, if we sign KC for 25 mill on the franchise tag again we still have about 45 mil in cap space . out of that swaggy needs to be resigned VD , and either garcon or djax or both notice i went outlandish for KC then you have some for a viable FA

the funny thing is these guys want a cerrato instead of building correctly

you dont like KC then look for a qb that is his equal or better the only option i see is the medically challenged romo in what would be a total snyder move

then we have a draft with 9 picks ?

and that isnt enough ? and the theory is colt mccoy and sudfeild are our guys ? with our 2 top wrs gone? and we are better ?

 

[SoCalWizFan]

lets get real simplistic here, if we sign KC for 25 mill on the franchise tag again we still have about 45 mil in cap space . out of that swaggy needs to be resigned VD , and either garcon or djax or both notice i went outlandish for KC then you have some for a viable FA

the funny thing is these guys want a cerrato instead of building correctly

you dont like KC then look for a qb that is his equal or better the only option i see is the medically challenged romo in what would be a total snyder move

then we have a draft with 9 picks ?

and that isnt enough ? and the theory is colt mccoy and sudfeild are our guys ? with our 2 top wrs gone? and we are better ?

Agree & if they go with the long term extension it is not as if say the entire $100M+ will be guaranteed. Given the current situation I am pretty sure that they will reach some type of compromise & ink a deal that will provide some protection for both sides.

You present a very good argument & the current FO won't make moves that will cause a disaster in the cap area. Barring a major injury or huge collapse for Cousins during the remainder of this season I think that they view him as their guy for a long time - certainly for next season.

 

[Stymietee]

is it them or mike jones ?

So easy to attack the messenger, especially when the message is not to the liking of the reader/listener. That said, because Jones does talk regularly to team insiders his report could be a true reflection of what's being discussed. On the other hand without direct permission to quote, concerns relating to team chemistry or Kirk giving the rest of the season a double finger salute, he quantified his remarks with the "Educated opinion" remark. Thus far there has been no comment or blowback from team reps relating to this report. Stay tuned!

 

[Stymietee]

Hmm.. let's review the losses/ties & see where the blame lies.

Steelers game - they were going to lose this game regardless & a coaching decision to put Breeland on Brown was a major factor. Not Cousins fault & they would not have won with McCoy.

Cowboys game - clearly Cousins was a huge factor in this defeat. Not sure if they would have won w/ McCoy but perhaps.

Lions game - clearly not Cousins fault & he put them in position to win. Don't totally blame the defense but some poor defensive coaching down the stretch played a huge factor. Fumble by Jones was also a huge factor. McCoy would not have won this game.

Bengals tie - Again - Cousins did everything he could to put them in position to win. Gruden & co. made the terrible 4th & short call that cost them at least 3 pts. Hopkins missed the easy FG that cost them the win (not blaming the kid for anything - he is one of their better players - just pointing out facts). McCoy definitely would not have won this game.

Do fans understand that McCoy is a career backup? There is a reason why he has been on numerous teams. Don't get me wrong - he is just rt to be the Skins backup & perhaps fill in for a few games. However - this idea that he could lead this team on a playoff run is very flawed. He has had his chance in DC in elsewhere & come up short.


I have no doubt that Gruden & McVay are 100% behind Cousins. It is perhaps only SM that has doubts & I really think that even he is now on board with Cousins. I somehow think that this is just wishful thinking on your part since you never liked Cousins. I had numerous doubts about him in the recent past, but I am now seeing that he is their best hope for the future.

[/QUOTE]

Nonsense!! There were plenty of plays in these games where both Kirk and McVay/Gruden could have done much better offensively. I'll go back and review them to better point out where these missed opportunities were. Attacking the messenger is of no consequence to me, but to be clear, I see Kirk as a very decent QB who's longevity is certain in the NFL barring injury. Where we part is in seeing his role in accomplishing the ultimate goal. So tell me honestly, if you were managing this team and your stated public vision was to be in constant upgrade mode, why would that not be true for your QB who at his best, has the ability to get you into the playoffs, but has major questions as to whether he will ever be the guy that hoists the SB trophy? That is the ultimate goal isn't it?

 

[skinsdad62]

So easy to attack the messenger, especially when the message is not to the liking of the reader/listener. That said, because Jones does talk regularly to team insiders his report could be a true reflection of what's being discussed. On the other hand without direct permission to quote, concerns relating to team chemistry or Kirk giving the rest of the season a double finger salute, he quantified his remarks with the "Educated opinion" remark. Thus far there has been no comment or blowback from team reps relating to this report. Stay tuned!

i disagree as history has shown on what numerous "insiders " have said that have been proven to be wanting

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Nonsense!! There were plenty of plays in these games where both Kirk and McVay/Gruden could have done much better offensively. I'll go back and review them to better point out where these missed opportunities were. Attacking the messenger is of no consequence to me, but to be clear, I see Kirk as a very decent QB who's longevity is certain in the NFL barring injury. Where we part is in seeing his role in accomplishing the ultimate goal. So tell me honestly, if you were managing this team and your stated public vision was to be in constant upgrade mode, why would that not be true for your QB who at his best, has the ability to get you into the playoffs, but has major questions as to whether he will ever be the guy that hoists the SB trophy? That is the ultimate goal isn't it?


So I guess that you know football better than Terry Bradshaw. Bradshaw stated on Sun that Cousins is a very good QB who very likely can lead his team to the SB one day.

Please do tell - besides the Cowboys game which game would McCoy have provided them with a chance to undo the loss and make it a win. Let me give you a hint - none of them! You will no doubt find some way to counter this since you have an agenda & again don't like Cousins (call it attacking the messenger - the fact is that you are still butt hurt over RG3 - who once again ended the season early - & don't like Cousins).

The goal should be to find stability at QB. You don't keep trying to upgrade the position because in most cases you will just be spinning your wheels and delaying any true success. As a Redskins fan you should be highly aware of this. Please try and view this objectively. I am not stating this as a Cousins lover since - again - I had my doubts about the guy until recently & actually advocated going in another direction on several occasions.

 

[deanpet21]

KC has been playing very well. The fact is there is no other option. There are no FA QB's. I don't believe we will draft a QB. So we will end up overpaying for KC. We overpay for every FA that comes here so why not overpay for the QB. I would want to breakup Gruden, MCvay, and KC right now.

If SM decided to let KC walk then that would be Gruden is on the hot seat.

 

[Krusheasy]

I like Cousins & hope they continue to let him grow with this offense ... & take some of the pressure off of his shoulders by getting him a respectable run attack & run blocking.

That said ... do we, or the front office think Cousins can replicate his numbers & success for the Jets, or another QB needy team ?

it really comes down to the numbers & GM SM doing what he thinks is in the best long term interest of the franchise ... even if us emotional homers do not agree with it at the time.

just look at how Bellicheck traded away their all-pro LB Collins ...

This is what Belichick and the Patriots do. They traded Pro Bowl defensive tackle Richard Seymour to the Raiders in 2009. Seymour was still productive after the deal, and many questioned Belichick for the move.

They shipped defensive end/linebacker Chandler Jones to the Arizona Cardinals this offseason in exchange for a second-round pick and former first-round pick Jonathan Cooper, whom the team already released. Jones has five sacks and is thriving with his new team.

Monday's deal is a trademark move. Like Collins, both Seymour and Jones were playing on soon-to-expire deals before being shipped out of town.

It’s emotionless. It’s icy and impersonal, maybe even harsh.

But it’s the way Belichick and the Patriots run their organization.

 

[deanpet21]

Let me ask you guys this. If KC said I want a long term deal right now at 20M annually does SM do it?

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Let me ask you guys this. If KC said I want a long term deal right now at 20M annually does SM do it?

The yearly figure alone is not a problem. The issue is the amt guaranteed & if there are out clauses in the contract.

 

[Krusheasy]

i disagree as history has shown on what numerous "insiders " have said that have been proven to be wanting

as far as Mike Jones goes ... he is free to give opinions & speculate ...

and we are free to agree or disagree with his ideas.

he has access the rest of us dont which helps him form his opinions ...

but that acess he is granted also makes him a tool of the organization.

 

[gkekoa]

Show me where Colt has done a damn thing in his career...statistically or winning.

 

[Krusheasy]

Show me where Colt has done a damn thing in his career...statistically or winning.

to play devils advocate ...

has he ever run an offense with weapons like

Crowder, Reeeeeeed, Garcon & Jackson ?

 

[SoCalWizFan]

to play devils advocate ...

has he ever run an offense with weapons like

Crowder, Reeeeeeed, Garcon & Jackson ?

Perhaps but keep in mind that all of these folks have not been available to Cousins during the entire season, and he has done quite well when one or more of them are missing. Also - Cousins has more than adequate arm strength while this is a an area of concern for McCoy. Therefore - McCoy may not be able to take advantage of these weapons in the same manner as Cousins.