POLL Toughest P5 Division?

[ericd7633]

So, you agree with sagarin when he helps your cause but disagree with him if you aren't trying to argue a point. That's pretty much exactly what I thought you'd say.

Nothing's gonna be fucking perfect. I think they were a top 20 team, he had them 10th. His rankings aren't going to directly reflect mine. However, when the gap is that big between division, it's rather startling. The gap between the SEC West and B1G East was the same as the gap between the B1G East and the Missouri Valley. Yes, that's fucking huge.

Also, you keep deflecting from the articles YOU posted, that only helped me. lol.

 

[Across The Field]

No.

But as I recall, they lost most of their games pretty close and won their OOC games. So it's not completely crazy for them to be ranked so high considering all their loses were to SEC teams.

They lost to the same Missouri team that was beaten at home by Indiana. That is not a good loss.

It is always completely crazy to think that a 6-loss team is the 10th best team in the nation. Always.

 

[4down20]

They lost to the same Missouri team that was beaten at home by Indiana. That is not a good loss.

It is always completely crazy to think that a 6-loss team is the 10th best team in the nation. Always.

Ok, what if a team lost to the #1,#2, #3, #4, #5 and #6 teams?

Not saying that's what happened exactly, but it's somewhat similar to that. 10 seems high to me, but I just adjust such a ranking on my own when reading things.

 

[Across The Field]

Nothing's gonna be fucking perfect. I think they were a top 20 team, he had them 10th. His rankings aren't going to directly reflect mine. However, when the gap is that big between division, it's rather startling. The gap between the SEC West and B1G East was the same as the gap between the B1G East and the Missouri Valley. Yes, that's fucking huge.

Also, you keep deflecting from the articles YOU posted, that only helped me. lol.

You said the B1G East was so far behind the SEC West, and I posted articles that said they are actually in great shape to overtake them as the best division in football. Were they 100% the better division in 2014? Maybe, maybe not. Are they the 5th best division in college football? Christ, no. Anyone who thinks that is an idiot, like Sagarin.

So you also believe that despite throttling them by 2+ TDs, GT was a worse team than Miss St? You believe despite having a worse record and losing H2H, Auburn deserved to be ranked 9 spots ahead of Wisconsin?

I could probably go through and find several more instances like this, his rankings are full of them every year. His rankings are extremely flawed, and this is easy to see, yet you take his conference rankings like they're flawless. This is idiotic.

 

[Across The Field]

Ok, what if a team lost to the #1,#2, #3, #4, #5 and #6 teams?

Not saying that's what happened exactly, but it's somewhat similar to that. 10 seems high to me, but I just adjust such a ranking on my own when reading things.

If that was the case, and they were all close, sure. But that is never going to happen. If it does, I owe you a Coke.

And yes, it was not at all what happened. They had one good win (Ole Miss), and then 5 losses to ranked teams and 1 loss to an unranked team. That is, by no means, the resume of the 10th best team in the nation.

 

[rmilia1]

NCAAF Sagarin - NCAAF Football - USA TODAY

1. SEC West
5. B1G East

Not even close either.

Usually Sagarin is good for CBB but those rankings stink. P12 South 2nd? SEC East 3rd? That's abysmal. Those are the 2 worst P5 divisions by a substantial amount. I don't honestly see how anyone is arguing this though its clearly SECW. 2nd is a better debate between B10E and P12N.

 

[KingKoolKat75]

NCAAF Sagarin - NCAAF Football - USA TODAY

1. SEC West
5. B1G East

Not even close either.

Sagarin's picks for 2015 College Playoff: Alabama,Oregon, TCU, Georgia

2015 Football Sagarin Rankings


Actual monkeys picks for 2015 College Playoff: Iowa, Clemson, Alabama, and Oklahoma.

Random Walker Rankings

 

[Gohogs14]

If that was the case, and they were all close, sure. But that is never going to happen. If it does, I owe you a Coke.

And yes, it was not at all what happened. They had one good win (Ole Miss), and then 5 losses to ranked teams and 1 loss to an unranked team. That is, by no means, the resume of the 10th best team in the nation.

Why is 9-4 ole miss a good win but 8-5 LSU isn't?

The way a team wins and loses its games matters. A 52-14 win over an 11-2 NIU team and 30-0 followed by 17-0 shutouts of ole miss and LSU are why Vegas would have had us as just a slight underdog to Florida State on a neutral field at the end of the year that year IIRC. Nearly every loss we had was within a field goal and not a 55-16 type score like Penn State had against Michigan State last year. The depth like that is why people think the SEC west is better.

 

[ericd7633]

You said the B1G East was so far behind the SEC West, and I posted articles that said they are actually in great shape to overtake them as the best division in football. Were they 100% the better division in 2014? Maybe, maybe not. Are they the 5th best division in college football? Christ, no. Anyone who thinks that is an idiot, like Sagarin.

So you also believe that despite throttling them by 2+ TDs, GT was a worse team than Miss St? You believe despite having a worse record and losing H2H, Auburn deserved to be ranked 9 spots ahead of Wisconsin?

I could probably go through and find several more instances like this, his rankings are full of them every year. His rankings are extremely flawed, and this is easy to see, yet you take his conference rankings like they're flawless. This is idiotic.

So far you've still found me ZERO things to suggest the B1G East was better than the SEC West in 2014. All those articles were from 2015, and it's pretty clear the SEC West was better in 2015 as well, hell you even admitted as such earlier this thread. But yeah, I'm biased against the B1G...

 

[ericd7633]

Usually Sagarin is good for CBB but those rankings stink. P12 South 2nd? SEC East 3rd? That's abysmal. Those are the 2 worst P5 divisions by a substantial amount. I don't honestly see how anyone is arguing this though its clearly SECW. 2nd is a better debate between B10E and P12N.

This was for 2014. I'd put the Pac South ahead of the B1G East as well. Finished with 5 ranked teams.

 

[Voltaire26]

B1G East because ....

If I were going to be truthful I would say the SEC West, but I am not going to be truthful!!!

 

[Across The Field]

So far you've still found me ZERO things to suggest the B1G East was better than the SEC West in 2014. All those articles were from 2015, and it's pretty clear the SEC West was better in 2015 as well, hell you even admitted as such earlier this thread. But yeah, I'm biased against the B1G...

Good god man, it's an opinion. I gave me reasons. I'm so sorry I don't have someone else's word to encourage you, but as I've said, I don't give a shit what you think.

I notice you still can't back up any other the other bullshit Sagarin had in his rankings that I pointed out, though. Typical.

 

[Across The Field]

Why is 9-4 ole miss a good win but 8-5 LSU isn't?

The way a team wins and loses its games matters. A 52-14 win over an 11-2 NIU team and 30-0 followed by 17-0 shutouts of ole miss and LSU are why Vegas would have had us as just a slight underdog to Florida State on a neutral field at the end of the year that year IIRC. Nearly every loss we had was within a field goal and not a 55-16 type score like Penn State had against Michigan State last year. The depth like that is why people think the SEC west is better.

Ole Miss was ranked, LSU wasn't.

I understand you had some close losses, but here's the big problem I have: For example, Auburn beat you by two TDs, while Wisconsin beat them H2H in their bowl. At 7-6, Arkansas belongs at 10 while 11-3 Wisconsin belongs at 20? That makes no sense whatsoever. Congrats on the tougher schedule, but losing to the majority of the good teams on your schedule (most of which weren't top 10 themselves) doesn't make you top 10 caliber. I mean, among those 6 losses, there's also the loss to unranked A&M.

Sorry, there just is no justifiable way to put them as the 10th best team in the nation, which is why Sagarin is by and large BS.

 

[rmilia1]

This was for 2014. I'd put the Pac South ahead of the B1G East as well. Finished with 5 ranked teams.

Ah gotcha. For 14 it makes more sense. Still not great imo but better than if it had been for last year lol

 

[ericd7633]

Good god man, it's an opinion. I gave me reasons. I'm so sorry I don't have someone else's word to encourage you, but as I've said, I don't give a shit what you think.

I notice you still can't back up any other the other bullshit Sagarin had in his rankings that I pointed out, though. Typical.

And like I said, an opinion can be incorrect, which yours is. I don't care that you have an opinion, if you want to be wrong, that's fine. If you don't want to use Sagarin as a resource, that's fine, I guess we can used the stuff you linked that still showed the SEC West to better then? There's literally no data or opinion that agrees with you.

 

[Across The Field]

And like I said, an opinion can be incorrect, which yours is. I don't care that you have an opinion, if you want to be wrong, that's fine. If you don't want to use Sagarin as a resource, that's fine, I guess we can used the stuff you linked that still showed the SEC West to better then? There's literally no data or opinion that agrees with you.

And you have no concrete proof that the SEC West was better. You have opinion pieces and you have the "data" of a moron that you even disagree with in many cases. There are different ways to measure worth and value. I know you don't like anyone promoting the B1G, but at some point you need to just accept that there are others that may stray from the brainwashed media flock of sheep which you belong.

 

[ericd7633]

And you have no concrete proof that the SEC West was better. You have opinion pieces and you have the "data" of a moron that you even disagree with in many cases. There are different ways to measure worth and value. I know you don't like anyone promoting the B1G, but at some point you need to just accept that there are others that may stray from the brainwashed media flock of sheep which you belong.

On the field results would suggest I have concrete proof. I have no problem promoting the B1G when necessary. They've been a great basketball conference the last 5 years(last year a little down), last year the B1G was very good in football. I didn't know saying something the rest of the college football world agrees with is constituted as bashing.

 

[Across The Field]

On the field results would suggest I have concrete proof. I have no problem promoting the B1G when necessary. They've been a great basketball conference the last 5 years(last year a little down), last year the B1G was very good in football. I didn't know saying something the rest of the college football world agrees with is constituted as bashing.

It's not, but instead of even looking at the body of work on the field, you've decided to just say "Well Sagarin says this so you're just a homer." Look at what the SECW did in their bowl games that year. They ended on a very low note. The B1G East, however, ended on a very high note. Another huge blow to Sagarin's credibility is how in 2015, he had the B1G East as the 5th best division despite having 3 teams in the top 11, and then had the B1G West as the 8th best division, despite having 3 more ranked teams themselves. The B1G had 6 ranked teams at season's end, yet Sagarin would essentially place them as tied with the ACC as the worst P5 conference, and that just makes no sense. How can you give an credit to a guy who comes up with that?

 

[ralphiewvu]

Let's see
5 of the 7 B1G East teams made a bowl
7 of the 7 SEC West teams made a bowl

SECWest over B1G East

 

[ericd7633]

It's not, but instead of even looking at the body of work on the field, you've decided to just say "Well Sagarin says this so you're just a homer." Look at what the SECW did in their bowl games that year. They ended on a very low note. The B1G East, however, ended on a very high note. Another huge blow to Sagarin's credibility is how in 2015, he had the B1G East as the 5th best division despite having 3 teams in the top 11, and then had the B1G West as the 8th best division, despite having 3 more ranked teams themselves. The B1G had 6 ranked teams at season's end, yet Sagarin would essentially place them as tied with the ACC as the worst P5 conference, and that just makes no sense. How can you give an credit to a guy who comes up with that?

I only brought in outside sources to further enhance my argument, not make it the basis of the argument. If he has no credibility with you that's fine. He is respected in college football cycles since he was part of the bcs formula. And yes I realize the SECW had a crappy bowl season. But does the rest of the OOC not count? They did go 28-0. The Sporting News still had them #1 despite the crappy bowl season.