money for kirk

[Sleepy T]

Stupid question perhaps, but what is the downside of throwing the franchise tag on Kirk, just to make sure that he will perform at a high level next year and that this one wasn't just a flash in the pan?? The obscene amount of money we would have to pay him next year for a limited sample size??

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Stupid question perhaps, but what is the downside of throwing the franchise tag on Kirk, just to make sure that he will perform at a high level next year and that this one wasn't just a flash in the pan?? The obscene amount of money we would have to pay him next year for a limited sample size??

Why do NFL players hate the Franchise Tag?

As per this article - one downside would be having an unhappy player who might be motivated to walk in subsequent years. Obviously this is not a problem if say Cousins underperforms. However - this could be an issue if he thrives & you never want an unhappy player.

Another option may be to apply the tag & subsequently sign him to a long term deal. In any case - I don't think this matters since I believe that they will carve out a long term deal this offseason.

 

[j_y19]

Stupid question perhaps, but what is the downside of throwing the franchise tag on Kirk, just to make sure that he will perform at a high level next year and that this one wasn't just a flash in the pan?? The obscene amount of money we would have to pay him next year for a limited sample size??

The other downside is that the entire franchise tag hits in 2016. That would ding the cap space to a tune of 20+M. Whereas if the can sign a long term deal, usually they structure it in a way that has a large upfront bonus and smaller annual salary the firs few years. The bonus can be prorated over the life of the contract. So KCs cap hit in 2016 is much more manageable, say in the 8-10M range. Then, as he gets out into the later years, you restructure again, pushing the remainder onto future years once again. It's all a shell game and for all of Bruce Allens faults, he is actually pretty good at managing the cap creatively.

 

[gkekoa]

There isn't a downside to the franchise tag. Unhappy players? Throw money at them and hey are happy.

The continual restructuring...haven't we learned it gets you in trouble.

 

[j_y19]

There isn't a downside to the franchise tag. Unhappy players? Throw money at them and hey are happy.

The continual restructuring...haven't we learned it gets you in trouble.

Not sure who you are referring to. What contract restructuring got us in trouble? Every team does this and it si\\is almost mandatory with your own stars. If you are referring to the Cap penalty we suffered a few years ago, that wasn't because we restructured, it was we tried to use a loop hole to bury some dead weight (hayensworth) and what we did was legal in the technical sense.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Not sure who you are referring to. What contract restructuring got us in trouble? Every team does this and it si\\is almost mandatory with your own stars. If you are referring to the Cap penalty we suffered a few years ago, that wasn't because we restructured, it was we tried to use a loop hole to bury some dead weight (hayensworth) and what we did was legal in the technical sense.

Absolutely! The lesson learned there is to not pickup the dead weight in the first place, and I don't think that you will have those problems with the current FO. You pretty much don't pay those outrageous contracts for any position other than QB.

 

[Sharkinva]

There isn't a downside to the franchise tag. Unhappy players? Throw money at them and hey are happy.

The continual restructuring...haven't we learned it gets you in trouble.

Actually about 70% of the players that play on a franchise tag end up on another team the following year. So aside from committing $20 million to Kirk for an all or nothing year, if he does perform we likely lose him the following year any way.

 

[gkekoa]

Not sure who you are referring to. What contract restructuring got us in trouble? Every team does this and it si\\is almost mandatory with your own stars. If you are referring to the Cap penalty we suffered a few years ago, that wasn't because we restructured, it was we tried to use a loop hole to bury some dead weight (hayensworth) and what we did was legal in the technical sense.

I am referring to the continual restructuring of guys like Jansen and Samuels. We did this for years but eventually it bites you. I understand it needs to be done occasionally but you don't make a contract planning for it in the future.

 

[gkekoa]

Actually about 70% of the players that play on a franchise tag end up on another team the following year. So aside from committing $20 million to Kirk for an all or nothing year, if he does perform we likely lose him the following year any way.

Where did you get the 70% number? I like it...an actual fact...so few have those.

They end up on another team but is that because they are taking less money to leave or is the franchising team saying you just are not worth it? I am betting the franchising team just realizes they are not worth the price.

 

[Sharkinva]

Where did you get the 70% number? I like it...an actual fact...so few have those.

They end up on another team but is that because they are taking less money to leave or is the franchising team saying you just are not worth it? I am betting the franchising team just realizes they are not worth the price.

IM just going roughly off of the last 10 players to play on the franchise tag. Most ( 7 out of 10) have ended up leaving after playing on the tag. And once again, its not logical from a cap stand point to use the tag.

You would rather take a one year hit of $20 million just so he can PROVE he is worth signing long term. And if he PROVES it, we then end up giving him an even larger contract. Or more than likely if he does prove it, he leaves, because the cost of tagging him again goes to around $30 million??


And here is one for you... Haynesworth played on the tag in Tenn. The following year he left because the Titans COULD NOT afford to tag him, and could not afford his $100 million dollar contract either.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Good pulls Shark. I pretty much have no doubt that the Redskins and Cousins will reach agreement on a long term contract this offseason.

 

[skinsdad62]

you are going to have to pay KC people or you are looking at another less proven option

some of you are tighter then a clam with lockjaw

 

[SoCalWizFan]

you are going to have to pay KC people or you are looking at another less proven option

some of you are tighter then a clam with lockjaw

Pretty basic formula for success in the NFL - develop through the draft & retain as many young players as possible. Throw in a some younger, reasonable FAs. Pay your QB whatever you have to if he proves to be solid (understanding the risk). Don't overpay for any other players unless they are rare cornerstones of your team (e.g. Watt) & then mainly do this when they are already on your team.

The decision on Cousins is a no brainer, and given SM's MO there is no doubt that the extension will get done.

 

[Sleepy T]

Thanks for the insight guys. Signing a long term deal makes sense wrt to the cap hit.

I wouldnt say my attitude is to be "tight" with the cash...just a little gunshy. Don't get me wrong. Kirk has been playing great the last half of the year, and I think our QB prayers MIGHT have finally been answered. But how many times has this team gotten burnt after signing players to a long term deal or ridiculous deal. The tires just seem to fall off. I guess I am just a pessimist. The football gods must have mercy on us at some point right??

 

[skinsdad62]

Thanks for the insight guys. Signing a long term deal makes sense wrt to the cap hit.

I wouldnt say my attitude is to be "tight" with the cash...just a little gunshy. Don't get me wrong. Kirk has been playing great the last half of the year, and I think our QB prayers MIGHT have finally been answered. But how many times has this team gotten burnt after signing players to a long term deal or ridiculous deal. The tires just seem to fall off. I guess I am just a pessimist. The football gods must have mercy on us at some point right??

we need to pay market value for him . and yes it is a risk and only a fool would believe it isnt .

so i will quote tom cruise's friend in the movie "Risky Business"

"sometimes you have to say , What the Fuck "

you get that Joel er VTsparks

 

[j_y19]

Thanks for the insight guys. Signing a long term deal makes sense wrt to the cap hit.

I wouldnt say my attitude is to be "tight" with the cash...just a little gunshy. Don't get me wrong. Kirk has been playing great the last half of the year, and I think our QB prayers MIGHT have finally been answered. But how many times has this team gotten burnt after signing players to a long term deal or ridiculous deal. The tires just seem to fall off. I guess I am just a pessimist. The football gods must have mercy on us at some point right??

Your point is valid. The longevity of KCs play is not guaranteed. But he is worth the risk. I also don't believe his contract will be ridiculous as compared to his peers (other QBs), but it will be large in comparison to his teammates.

 

[Sharkinva]

Thanks for the insight guys. Signing a long term deal makes sense wrt to the cap hit.

I wouldnt say my attitude is to be "tight" with the cash...just a little gunshy. Don't get me wrong. Kirk has been playing great the last half of the year, and I think our QB prayers MIGHT have finally been answered. But how many times has this team gotten burnt after signing players to a long term deal or ridiculous deal. The tires just seem to fall off. I guess I am just a pessimist. The football gods must have mercy on us at some point right??

Two things we havent had in this situation in a very long time.

1. A GM worth a fuck. And lets face it, SMGM thus far has lived up to his billing at every stop.
2. We haven't had a player we were considering paying that was actually worth investing in that wasnt a total asshat.

We dropped mad coin on mercs in most cases. Kirk is home grown, just humble enough that unless you have a reason not to like him... you kinda gotta like that.

 

[JonBlaze]

Seems like KC likes it here and he's taken the time to learn the system. He could be doing himself a disservice by leaving and starting in a new system. Do you guys think that factors in at all in this process?

 

[j_y19]

Seems like KC likes it here and he's taken the time to learn the system. He could be doing himself a disservice by leaving and starting in a new system. Do you guys think that factors in at all in this process?

Absolutely. I don't think it's all about the money with Kirk. I also think he must feel some sense of loyalty to Gruden. Jay put his career on the line when he named him the starter.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Absolutely. I don't think it's all about the money with Kirk. I also think he must feel some sense of loyalty to Gruden. Jay put his career on the line when he named him the starter.

Absolutely as well as other factors like not wanting to uproot his family. Assuming that he gets a reasonable offer I feel confident that this will get done. I expect the deal to be similar to what we have seen recently for some other relatively high profile QBs.