My Thoughts on a Kirk Extension

[j_y19]

So because the market says Matt Stafford should get 20 mil a year its automatically right? No. There are stupid teams that overpay for mediocrity. We dont have to be one of those stupid teams. If somebody else wants to be that stupid team - fine.

Did you ever take an Econ class? Do you understand the principles of supply and demand? The market is a fluid entity that is driven by that simple principle. The fact is there is a dearth of quality QBs and there is a slew of teams looking for one, including the redskins. When the market is skewed like this, prices rise. If kc continues to play like he has and hits FA, he will be the most sought after FA QB. Not because he is a franchise QB yet, but because the rest of the supply sucks. So in your scenario, we lose KC and sign McCown. The flaw is that, for the same reason that KC gets 17m, McCown's price goes up also. So we don't get him for 5m but more like 8-9m. Oh yeah, and any continuity developed between KC and the rest of the offense is gone and needs to be developed with what ever scrub we bring in. And after a year, when your scrub gets thrown aside, we have to start all over. All because you were more interested in saving a buck than winning.

 

[DJ Fieri]

This is a very fair assessment imo.

 

[gkekoa]

Did you ever take an Econ class? Do you understand the principles of supply and demand? The market is a fluid entity that is driven by that simple principle. The fact is there is a dearth of quality QBs and there is a slew of teams looking for one, including the redskins. When the market is skewed like this, prices rise. If kc continues to play like he has and hits FA, he will be the most sought after FA QB. Not because he is a franchise QB yet, but because the rest of the supply sucks. So in your scenario, we lose KC and sign McCown. The flaw is that, for the same reason that KC gets 17m, McCown's price goes up also. So we don't get him for 5m but more like 8-9m. Oh yeah, and any continuity developed between KC and the rest of the offense is gone and needs to be developed with what ever scrub we bring in. And after a year, when your scrub gets thrown aside, we have to start all over. All because you were more interested in saving a buck than winning.

Why didn't McCown, Hoyer, or Fitzpatrick get paid more last season? They were brought there to start or compete to start.

 

[skinsdad62]

tell me where do you think mccown , hoyer or fitzpatrick are going to take us ?

 

[Stymietee]

Colt is injury prone, KC isn't or at least hasn't been up to this point. KC is also a better pocket manipulator, significantly so imo, than Colt. Colt has more moxie than KC, which imo is Colt's only advantage over KC.

OK, I'll agree with the injury prone difference. I'm not sure what you mean by pocket manipulator though. If you mean able to buy time and or escape, then make something out of a busted, off time play that edge definitely goes to Colt. Not to get too deep into the few differences between them, the point unfortunately, is that, there are not enough of them to not include McCoy in this conversation. That is especially true when so many are asking the question........"If you don't resign KC who do you get that's better?" He might not be "better" because KC has more experience in this offense, but they are practically the same running JG's offense.

Pssst (this will be another in a long line of negative comments....watch)

 

[Sportster 72]

Even the franchise tag is based on an average of salary structure. You can low ball anybody you like but you run the risk of not signing them if you really want them. I mentioned this in an earlier post, Bruce Allen is well known around the league to be a good salary guy. Let SM decides if he wants Cousins and Allen work out the contract. It's not that fucking hard. It isn't like Vinny is still here and going to write contracts like he did for Haynesworth and Archuleta.

If you feel like the guy can't play you have made that clear 495795395945745 times. No need to repeat it 953473 times a day.

 

[Stymietee]

tell me where do you think mccown , hoyer or fitzpatrick are going to take us ?

Not one of those guys are better than KC, so if I had to guess what the record would be if any one of them was the QB here, I would have to say we would be sporting a record of....oh....4-6 or Something like that. . To be clear they all can play in this league, (Kirk too) that's been proven.

 

[Breed]

So because the market says Matt Stafford should get 20 mil a year its automatically right? No. There are stupid teams that overpay for mediocrity. We dont have to be one of those stupid teams. If somebody else wants to be that stupid team - fine.

I don't think KC is a 17-20 million dollar QB, but if that's what the market dictates, it is what it is. It wasn't too long ago that it was even crazier. Freaking rookies who were drafted in the upper half of the first round were making all the coin. Sam Bradford getting a 50+million dollars rookie deal was the last year of that bullshit.

W/O the salary slots that was put in place a few years ago. Griffin would've got a deal north of 50+ million for sure.

The new crazy though is Alex Smith getting a 4 year 68 million/45 million guarantee contract that breaks down to about 17 million a year. In entire career his high for TDs in a season is 23 and for yardage its 3100+ yards or some shit. Smith's claim to fame is being a scary ass poopbutt. Hell, he QBed a team last year where NO WRs scored a TD. Jaamal Charles is w/o question that team's best and most important offensive player, he's just a RB though. Alex is a QB, a scary ass poopbutt QB, but a QB so he's getting 45 mill guaranteed. Hell, Griffin ain't busted a grape in the last 3 years on a football field and he's still on the verge of making 16 million dollars for a single season.

Tony Romo can ball, but he was seen as more crunch-time choker and hadn't won a damn thing except what? One playoff game in a freakin decade? And he signs a six year, $108 million contract extension with $55 million in guarantees and a $25 million signing bonus. He did have a great year last year, so did Dez with 80+ catches and 16 TDs as did DeMarco Murray with 1800+ yards and almost 400 carries which seriously protected Romo. Murray didn't get paid though he was told to kick rocks in fact. Dez got paid this year though, 70 mill, 45 mill guaranteed, 25 mill signing bonus this year. Romo got paid last year before the big year of last year because he's a QB.

Face it, homey, QBs, Eli, Flacco, Peyton's old ass, Romo, Cam, Alex Smith, get paid. All Kirk has to do is not shit the bed and I hope he doesn't, and he'll likely get paid to. W/O question, he's improved as the year has progressed, at least imo. Improved, but he needs help. A 1600 yard RB or better yet, a 2100/2200 yard RBBC, a defense that can actually do shit a defense is supposed to do. Tackle, get a turnover when a turnover would be nice to get, play half-ass decently against better than average or actual good offenses.

All those QBs have put in more time than KC though. So what might be a contract that says QB money, but not get too freakin crazy IE 17-20 mill a year for 4 or 5 years?

How bout one like Andy Dalton's?

Details emerged via Pro Football Talk on the details of what turns out to be a team-friendly contract. The contract will have just $17 million guaranteed. He will receive a $12 million signing bonus and then receive $5 million more in three days. At the third day of the league year next March he will receive another $4 million bonus.

The guaranteed cash ends there. With his second year salary, the deal for all basic purposes lands at two years and $25 million before becoming a year-to-year deal similar to the structure of Colin Kaepernick's contract.

From that point the extension basically adds six years and $96 million in new money with possible escalators for postseason performance.

If the Bengals win the Super Bowl with Dalton he will receive $1.5 million more for every year after that remaining on the deal. The same scenario is true for making the conference title game, only at $500,000.

Two years/25 million with escalators after that and a re-do seemingly easy enough after the first two years. Gives KC another 32 games of experience, he'll still be on the right side of 30 and it allows the Skins to get their shit together on the defensive side of the ball. Also gives a definitive or close enough answer on whether Matt Jones/Chris Thompson can be a true RBBC. And if they really do let Djax and PG go, which would be asinine imo far as Djax goes considering what he's brought to the offense the last 2 weeks. Or they keep him or both. Maybe add another WR, a 6'2" or taller, rangy type.

Regardless of what happens though. KC might not be where we'd like to be, hell, he might never get there. But he can continue to trend upward and who knows? Maybe it all clicks, Gruden grows bit of a bigger sack, and KC becomes a Drew Brees type.

 

[ehb5]

Did you ever take an Econ class? Do you understand the principles of supply and demand? The market is a fluid entity that is driven by that simple principle. The fact is there is a dearth of quality QBs and there is a slew of teams looking for one, including the redskins. When the market is skewed like this, prices rise. If kc continues to play like he has and hits FA, he will be the most sought after FA QB. Not because he is a franchise QB yet, but because the rest of the supply sucks. So in your scenario, we lose KC and sign McCown. The flaw is that, for the same reason that KC gets 17m, McCown's price goes up also. So we don't get him for 5m but more like 8-9m. Oh yeah, and any continuity developed between KC and the rest of the offense is gone and needs to be developed with what ever scrub we bring in. And after a year, when your scrub gets thrown aside, we have to start all over. All because you were more interested in saving a buck than winning.

What so you think people can't overpay? Is that really what you're trying to say? Price =/= Value dude.

 

[ehb5]

tell me where do you think mccown , hoyer or fitzpatrick are going to take us ?

Like Sty said - we could easily be 4-6 with them right now. Thats kinda the point.

 

[ehb5]

I don't think KC is a 17-20 million dollar QB, but if that's what the market dictates, it is what it is. It wasn't too long ago that it was even crazier. Freaking rookies who were drafted in the upper half of the first round were making all the coin. Sam Bradford getting a 50+million dollars rookie deal was the last year of that bullshit.

W/O the salary slots that was put in place a few years ago. Griffin would've got a deal north of 50+ million for sure.

The new crazy though is Alex Smith getting a 4 year 68 million/45 million guarantee contract that breaks down to about 17 million a year. In entire career his high for TDs in a season is 23 and for yardage its 3100+ yards or some shit. Smith's claim to fame is being a scary ass poopbutt. Hell, he QBed a team last year where NO WRs scored a TD. Jaamal Charles is w/o question that team's best and most important offensive player, he's just a RB though. Alex is a QB, a scary ass poopbutt QB, but a QB so he's getting 45 mill guaranteed. Hell, Griffin ain't busted a grape in the last 3 years on a football field and he's still on the verge of making 16 million dollars for a single season.

Tony Romo can ball, but he was seen as more crunch-time choker and hadn't won a damn thing except what? One playoff game in a freakin decade? And he signs a six year, $108 million contract extension with $55 million in guarantees and a $25 million signing bonus. He did have a great year last year, so did Dez with 80+ catches and 16 TDs as did DeMarco Murray with 1800+ yards and almost 400 carries which seriously protected Romo. Murray didn't get paid though he was told to kick rocks in fact. Dez got paid this year though, 70 mill, 45 mill guaranteed, 25 mill signing bonus this year. Romo got paid last year before the big year of last year because he's a QB.

Face it, homey, QBs, Eli, Flacco, Peyton's old ass, Romo, Cam, Alex Smith, get paid. All Kirk has to do is not shit the bed and I hope he doesn't, and he'll likely get paid to. W/O question, he's improved as the year has progressed, at least imo. Improved, but he needs help. A 1600 yard RB or better yet, a 2100/2200 yard RBBC, a defense that can actually do shit a defense is supposed to do. Tackle, get a turnover when a turnover would be nice to get, play half-ass decently against better than average or actual good offenses.

All those QBs have put in more time than KC though. So what might be a contract that says QB money, but not get too freakin crazy IE 17-20 mill a year for 4 or 5 years?

How bout one like Andy Dalton's?

Details emerged via Pro Football Talk on the details of what turns out to be a team-friendly contract. The contract will have just $17 million guaranteed. He will receive a $12 million signing bonus and then receive $5 million more in three days. At the third day of the league year next March he will receive another $4 million bonus.

The guaranteed cash ends there. With his second year salary, the deal for all basic purposes lands at two years and $25 million before becoming a year-to-year deal similar to the structure of Colin Kaepernick's contract.

From that point the extension basically adds six years and $96 million in new money with possible escalators for postseason performance.

If the Bengals win the Super Bowl with Dalton he will receive $1.5 million more for every year after that remaining on the deal. The same scenario is true for making the conference title game, only at $500,000.

Two years/25 million with escalators after that and a re-do seemingly easy enough after the first two years. Gives KC another 32 games of experience, he'll still be on the right side of 30 and it allows the Skins to get their shit together on the defensive side of the ball. Also gives a definitive or close enough answer on whether Matt Jones/Chris Thompson can be a true RBBC. And if they really do let Djax and PG go, which would be asinine imo far as Djax goes considering what he's brought to the offense the last 2 weeks. Or they keep him or both. Maybe add another WR, a 6'2" or taller, rangy type.

Regardless of what happens though. KC might not be where we'd like to be, hell, he might never get there. But he can continue to trend upward and who knows? Maybe it all clicks, Gruden grows bit of a bigger sack, and KC becomes a Drew Brees type.

Im well aware QBs get paid. But some of them shouldnt. Smith's contract is horrible. Although Romo is pretty damn good he deserves to be paid IMO.

 

[Stymietee]

I don't think KC is a 17-20 million dollar QB, but if that's what the market dictates, it is what it is. It wasn't too long ago that it was even crazier. Freaking rookies who were drafted in the upper half of the first round were making all the coin. Sam Bradford getting a 50+million dollars rookie deal was the last year of that bullshit.

W/O the salary slots that was put in place a few years ago. Griffin would've got a deal north of 50+ million for sure.

The new crazy though is Alex Smith getting a 4 year 68 million/45 million guarantee contract that breaks down to about 17 million a year. In entire career his high for TDs in a season is 23 and for yardage its 3100+ yards or some shit. Smith's claim to fame is being a scary ass poopbutt. Hell, he QBed a team last year where NO WRs scored a TD. Jaamal Charles is w/o question that team's best and most important offensive player, he's just a RB though. Alex is a QB, a scary ass poopbutt QB, but a QB so he's getting 45 mill guaranteed. Hell, Griffin ain't busted a grape in the last 3 years on a football field and he's still on the verge of making 16 million dollars for a single season.

Tony Romo can ball, but he was seen as more crunch-time choker and hadn't won a damn thing except what? One playoff game in a freakin decade? And he signs a six year, $108 million contract extension with $55 million in guarantees and a $25 million signing bonus. He did have a great year last year, so did Dez with 80+ catches and 16 TDs as did DeMarco Murray with 1800+ yards and almost 400 carries which seriously protected Romo. Murray didn't get paid though he was told to kick rocks in fact. Dez got paid this year though, 70 mill, 45 mill guaranteed, 25 mill signing bonus this year. Romo got paid last year before the big year of last year because he's a QB.

Face it, homey, QBs, Eli, Flacco, Peyton's old ass, Romo, Cam, Alex Smith, get paid. All Kirk has to do is not shit the bed and I hope he doesn't, and he'll likely get paid to. W/O question, he's improved as the year has progressed, at least imo. Improved, but he needs help. A 1600 yard RB or better yet, a 2100/2200 yard RBBC, a defense that can actually do shit a defense is supposed to do. Tackle, get a turnover when a turnover would be nice to get, play half-ass decently against better than average or actual good offenses.

All those QBs have put in more time than KC though. So what might be a contract that says QB money, but not get too freakin crazy IE 17-20 mill a year for 4 or 5 years?

How bout one like Andy Dalton's?

Details emerged via Pro Football Talk on the details of what turns out to be a team-friendly contract. The contract will have just $17 million guaranteed. He will receive a $12 million signing bonus and then receive $5 million more in three days. At the third day of the league year next March he will receive another $4 million bonus.

The guaranteed cash ends there. With his second year salary, the deal for all basic purposes lands at two years and $25 million before becoming a year-to-year deal similar to the structure of Colin Kaepernick's contract.

From that point the extension basically adds six years and $96 million in new money with possible escalators for postseason performance.

If the Bengals win the Super Bowl with Dalton he will receive $1.5 million more for every year after that remaining on the deal. The same scenario is true for making the conference title game, only at $500,000.

Two years/25 million with escalators after that and a re-do seemingly easy enough after the first two years. Gives KC another 32 games of experience, he'll still be on the right side of 30 and it allows the Skins to get their shit together on the defensive side of the ball. Also gives a definitive or close enough answer on whether Matt Jones/Chris Thompson can be a true RBBC. And if they really do let Djax and PG go, which would be asinine imo far as Djax goes considering what he's brought to the offense the last 2 weeks. Or they keep him or both. Maybe add another WR, a 6'2" or taller, rangy type.

Regardless of what happens though. KC might not be where we'd like to be, hell, he might never get there. But he can continue to trend upward and who knows? Maybe it all clicks, Gruden grows bit of a bigger sack, and KC becomes a Drew Brees type.

Yeah dude....this is the special needs version of monopoly money.....just stay on the board, get past go then get p.a.i.d. in fact just like in the real game you don't even have to be the car or some highly functional piece. In the NFL the thimble gets paid too!! BTW: I'm liking that contract structure, after all if the jingle is going to be tossed out like it is at the local nudie bar, (I've heard ) might as well make the best of it.

 

[Sharkinva]

Why didn't McCown, Hoyer, or Fitzpatrick get paid more last season? They were brought there to start or compete to start.

Fitz is 33 years old.. no real possible future in him.

McCown is 36... again nothing MORE than a stop gap at BEST

Hoyer is 30... ok so MAYBE you get 3-5 years out of him.


All three are basically known commodities with little if any shot at improving beyond what they are at this point. They were brought in to mind the shop. In McCowns case, it was until Johnny numb nutz got his act together.

Fitz was brought in to mind the shop until Geno got his jaw unwired

The Texans figured they were closer to a complete team and better served with a Vet, than rebuilding with a younger unknown player. None of the three were signed with an eye past 2015.

If Kirk is resigned at $17 million, it means Gruden and more importantly Scot feels he is the guy to atleast lead this team for the next three years or so while they improve the rest of the roster.

 

[Stymietee]

Fitz is 33 years old.. no real possible future in him.

McCown is 36... again nothing MORE than a stop gap at BEST

Hoyer is 30... ok so MAYBE you get 3-5 years out of him.


All three are basically known commodities with little if any shot at improving beyond what they are at this point. They were brought in to mind the shop. In McCowns case, it was until Johnny numb nutz got his act together.

Fitz was brought in to mind the shop until Geno got his jaw unwired

The Texans figured they were closer to a complete team and better served with a Vet, than rebuilding with a younger unknown player. None of the three were signed with an eye past 2015.

If Kirk is resigned at $17 million, it means Gruden and more importantly Scot feels he is the guy to atleast lead this team for the next three years or so while they improve the rest of the roster.

..........Or to be fair, they pay him the 17mil because that's the market and Kirk and his people won't accept anything less knowing that he'll get that and/or more elsewhere. Sadly, as some have suggested, unless Kirk bakes moon pies in his shorts, he holds all of the cards.

 

[j_y19]

Why didn't McCown, Hoyer, or Fitzpatrick get paid more last season? They were brought there to start or compete to start.

Wrong. They were brought in to be a placeholder. They league knows where their ceiling is and they have reached it.

 

[j_y19]

..........Or to be fair, they pay him the 17mil because that's the market and Kirk and his people won't accept anything less knowing that he'll get that and/or more elsewhere. Sadly, as some have suggested, unless Kirk bakes moon pies in his shorts, he holds all of the cards.

I actually expect KC to give us a hometown discount. I have to believe he feels a sense of owing to Jay. Jay put his career on the line when he make KC the starter. I also bet KC knows that Jay's offense suits his skill set to a tee. So if the market dictates KC should get 17, I won't be surprised if he signs for in the 15 range soon after the season ends. That is assuming he doesn't bake moon pies in his shorts, as you so eloquently put it

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Did you ever take an Econ class? Do you understand the principles of supply and demand? The market is a fluid entity that is driven by that simple principle. The fact is there is a dearth of quality QBs and there is a slew of teams looking for one, including the redskins. When the market is skewed like this, prices rise. If kc continues to play like he has and hits FA, he will be the most sought after FA QB. Not because he is a franchise QB yet, but because the rest of the supply sucks. So in your scenario, we lose KC and sign McCown. The flaw is that, for the same reason that KC gets 17m, McCown's price goes up also. So we don't get him for 5m but more like 8-9m. Oh yeah, and any continuity developed between KC and the rest of the offense is gone and needs to be developed with what ever scrub we bring in. And after a year, when your scrub gets thrown aside, we have to start all over. All because you were more interested in saving a buck than winning.

I wish I had written this post.

 

[Breed]

Im well aware QBs get paid. But some of them shouldnt. Smith's contract is horrible. Although Romo is pretty damn good he deserves to be paid IMO.

Then you're also well aware that what you think as far as what QBs should or shouldn't get paid. Is completely irrelevant to what QBs do or don't get paid. In pretty much the same time frame. Romo's won exactly one more playoff game, and has 2 playoff wins total, than Alex Smith has. Or put another way, Romo ain't really did shit either far as winning a title goes.

 

[Breed]

I actually expect KC to give us a hometown discount. I have to believe he feels a sense of owing to Jay. Jay put his career on the line when he make KC the starter. I also bet KC knows that Jay's offense suits his skill set to a tee. So if the market dictates KC should get 17, I won't be surprised if he signs for in the 15 range soon after the season ends. That is assuming he doesn't bake moon pies in his shorts, as you so eloquently put it

I wonder if the moon pies I'm thinking about. Are the same ones Stymie's sayin KC bakes in his shorts and how does Stymie know Kirk wears shorts when he bakes? The ones which actually look/taste like caramel, but are called/named vanilla. They sell em over the California Penal system, but the only town outside of that where I've seen em in the last 20 years or more is Bullhead, Arizona.

If what you say is true or even somewhat true. Personally, I think I'd like KC's chances of becoming a stud QB a little better. If he felt he didn't owe Jay shit, but thought "Of course I'm the right man for he job." As I do believe there's a certain amount of or a good arrogance that good and great QBs have.

 

[j_y19]

I wish I had written this post.

aw, quit it. You're making me blush