cousin market 17 -20 mill range

[Caliskinsfan]

Scot McCloughan’s history with quarterbacks

First of all I hope that everyone take's Sharks comments with a couple lbs of salt - good effort in lightening up the mood Shark. Anyhow - as this discussion progresses it is interesting to drag out an old article about SM and his approach towards QBs. I truly believe that he would like to refrain from using very high picks on QBs especially in an offseason where there does not appear to be an elite prospect.

As per the article & other indications it would appear that SM would like to continue to use the early rounds to build other areas of the team. Also - his experience in drafting A. Smith may make him a little gun shy in reaching too high for a QB. We will see.

Nice find on this article.

A bit off topic here but interesting none the less.

Some people have criticized Scot for choosing Alex over Aaron back on the day. I wanted to note that this might not have been the actual case...

I remembered reading somewhere that Scot actually liked the talent of Aaron over Smith. Couldn't find the article tho... They were apparently overruled on draft day if you believe the behind the scene speculating. I found this post on a blog about it from 2006...


There was this article in the San Jose news (close to San Francisco) that noted that Nolan wanted Smith because he didn't want to appear cheap (the 49ers were noted for being cheap as a team and Alex was asking for 60 million while Aaron was asking 40 something)...

McCarthy and McCloughan wanted Rodgers. Nolan and John York(the WORST owner in the NFL) wanted Smith. OF course the head coach and the owner have the final say.

And


The San Jose Mercury in the bay area chronicled how McCarthy FAVORED Aaron Rodgers over Alex Smith and that he said Alex Smith "wasn't ready".

The 49ers picked Smith, because John York was afraid of being labled a cheap owner(Alex Smith asked for 60 million -crazy- and Aaron was asking for 40).

Mike Nolan also was worried about the "image" of the team...and not being seen as cheap. Even Mike Nolan said Aaron was more polished and ready for the NFL. They picked Smith as a PR move..and it's costing them dearly now. They overpaid for a tall quarterback who has no pocket presense and runs for his life.

Alex never made a 3,5, or 7 step drop..
McCarthy said SMITH was not ready..and it SHOWED in the season.

 

[ehb5]

Glad you caught that Socal.

As far as us drafting a QB.. even if we resign Kirk, and he does in fact blossom into a high 2nd tier QB that we can build around. I got to say, if he manages to fall to us in the 2nd, or by some stroke the 3rd... I would not complain about us drafting Jones there. Would a burn a first and hand him the keys?? NOt a chance in hell. BUt then again I would be hesitant to do that with any rookie QB in this class. I would grudgingly think of taking him with a second depending on where we picked... But a 3rd, assuming Kirk is the designated starter and looking like a mid to long term answer... .well I would drop a third to have this kid play sit and learn.

I feel myself liking Jones as a mid round flyer actually even though when Ive watched him he looks pretty horrible lol. Hes just so big with a cannon that its tempting in the middle rounds. But dear god not in the first.

 

[Sharkinva]

I feel myself liking Jones as a mid round flyer actually even though when Ive watched him he looks pretty horrible lol. Hes just so big with a cannon that its tempting in the middle rounds. But dear god not in the first.

If we draft Jones in the 1st round, might have to do this to SMGM

 

[ehb5]

As for Cousins at 17-20 mil a year. Im not sure Id ever like that. Thats a lot of the cap for any QB thats not elite - although the cap is increasing steadily so maybe not a huge deal. Either way hes gotta play pretty well these last 7(+?) games for 17-20 to be in the conversation I would think.

 

[ehb5]

If we draft Jones in the 1st round, might have to do this to SMGM

View attachment 53487

Yea I wouldnt be happy with that one. And you know how many times Ive brought up looking at the draft for a QB lol.

 

[Sharkinva]

As for Cousins at 17-20 mil a year. Im not sure Id ever like that. Thats a lot of the cap for any QB thats not elite - although the cap is increasing steadily so maybe not a huge deal. Either way hes gotta play pretty well these last 7(+?) games for 17-20 to be in the conversation I would think.

Thats the thing, 17-20 is basically the going rate for ANY kind of stability at the position. Bradford got $13 this year. RG3 is set to cost $16 unless we release him. Hell Tannehill is set to count $11 million next year and $20 million in 2017. IF he were going to be a backup, the market is $5-7 million... as a starter... the market is what it is.

 

[ehb5]

Thats the thing, 17-20 is basically the going rate for ANY kind of stability at the position. Bradford got $13 this year. RG3 is set to cost $16 unless we release him. Hell Tannehill is set to count $11 million next year and $20 million in 2017. IF he were going to be a backup, the market is $5-7 million... as a starter... the market is what it is.

Oh it definitely is. I just dont know that that means we should just follow along.

 

[Sharkinva]

Oh it definitely is. I just dont know that that means we should just follow along.

Options

1. Resign Kirk at some where around the going rate ( this assumes he performs some what decent to good over the next 7 games)

2. Let Kirk test the waters.
3. Keep Griffin( this would mean we have no intention of resigning Kirk)
4. Draft a QB
5. Sign a FA ( would likely have to do this if we drafted a QB and didnt keep Kirk or Griffin any way)

 

[ehb5]

Options

1. Resign Kirk at some where around the going rate ( this assumes he performs some what decent to good over the next 7 games)

2. Let Kirk test the waters.
3. Keep Griffin( this would mean we have no intention of resigning Kirk)
4. Draft a QB
5. Sign a FA ( would likely have to do this if we drafted a QB and didnt keep Kirk or Griffin any way)

All depends on the cost of everything. Hard to say until we reach that point. Although I dont see any justification for #3

 

[kbso83432]

Again, want to see how Kirk finishes the season, but this has the stench of Trent Green II all over it. Hated seeing Trent light it up in K.C while we were trying to turn Tony Banks and Shane Matthews into NFL QB's.

 

[gkekoa]

all i am going to say is i said if you paid KC 12 mil a year (21st in the nfl mind you ) that we had 2 posters who were balking at that and thought 5 mil a year was the way to go as far as an offer is concerned .

one wanted to see more (which is fair ) and one said that was a starting point ( 5 mil a year )

i cant see an old retread , or a hoyer or weeden or mallet is any kind of answer for us . we should go with colt at that point

you also have 3 at 16 mil if this was a "sit down and learn year "

if KC plays well down the stretch like he has the past few weeks we are going to have to take a crow bar to our textual wallets and anti up

if he stinks then you are looking at mccoy or cutler

Misquoting me again DAD. I said if you offer a contract today, because that is how that convo started, it should be for 5 mil per season. I said, I expect it to be 8-10 mil after the season because I don't expect him to go at his current rate. If he plays better...obviously more.

There are not as many teams looking for questionable QBs in FA as in the past bc of the rookie cap. To pay KC 17 mil/season is insane unless he takes us to the playoffs and continues at his current rate. If he does...I am all for 17 mil per season.

 

[Sharkinva]

Misquoting me again DAD. I said if you offer a contract today, because that is how that convo started, it should be for 5 mil per season. I said, I expect it to be 8-10 mil after the season because I don't expect him to go at his current rate. If he plays better...obviously more.

There are not as many teams looking for questionable QBs in FA as in the past bc of the rookie cap. To pay KC 17 mil/season is insane unless he takes us to the playoffs and continues at his current rate. If he does...I am all for 17 mil per season.

Even with the cap savings, taking a rookie QB likely sets this team back another 2-3 years. Meaning we waste the careers of guys like

Kerrigan
Culliver
Robinson
Reed
T. Williams

and Im sure Im leaving out a few. Most of these guys are either in their prime, or in a couple of cases will be going out of it by the time a rookie QB gets it together. Yes there are a few teams that would GLADLY give Kirk that $17 million a year, and if we are willing to let him walk and draft one of these rookies... we are basically wasting another three years.

 

[gkekoa]

This article explains everything.

What would a Kirk Cousins contract extension look like?

BTW...this article basically lines up with everything I have said.

 

[gkekoa]

Even with the cap savings, taking a rookie QB likely sets this team back another 2-3 years. Meaning we waste the careers of guys like

Kerrigan
Culliver
Robinson
Reed
T. Williams

and Im sure Im leaving out a few. Most of these guys are either in their prime, or in a couple of cases will be going out of it by the time a rookie QB gets it together. Yes there are a few teams that would GLADLY give Kirk that $17 million a year, and if we are willing to let him walk and draft one of these rookies... we are basically wasting another three years.

If that is the best we have, let them expire.

Name the teams that would gladly pay KC that amount.

 

[j_y19]

Misquoting me again DAD. I said if you offer a contract today, because that is how that convo started, it should be for 5 mil per season. I said, I expect it to be 8-10 mil after the season because I don't expect him to go at his current rate. If he plays better...obviously more.

There are not as many teams looking for questionable QBs in FA as in the past bc of the rookie cap. To pay KC 17 mil/season is insane unless he takes us to the playoffs and continues at his current rate. If he does...I am all for 17 mil per season.

History would say you are wrong. There are always teams that will open the checkbook for the Flynns, cassells, and grossmans of the world. The rookie cap has no impact because most of the teams aren't in a position to draft the top QB prospects out there.

 

[Sharkinva]

If that is the best we have, let them expire.

Name the teams that would gladly pay KC that amount.

The Jets, Likely the Browns as they are about to likely draft yet ANOTHER QB. The Bears if they were smart.

Now I ask you... name me a rookie QB who you really think its worth wasting the next three years, and some of our best players careers on. We wasted the careers of Chris Samuels, Stephen Davis and a few others trying to MAKE guys like Jason Campbell and Patrick Ramsey into QBs worth building around. I get it, Kirk might not be Arron Rogers, but in the grand scheme of things, an extra $10 million a year for a solid QB is worth a fuckton more than starting a rookie and once again likely looking at another rebuild in three years. At WORST if given time, I think Kirk develops into yes, another Andy Dalton. And realistically, even on a deal that averages $17 million a year.. much like Tannehill, the first two years will be well below that cap wise, and the team will make sure they have an out if he fails.

The other option is to waste half that on the next RG3. And i dont mean the player himself. I mean the contract. $17 million a year average over 4 years comes out to $68 million IF he performs. Reality is it will come out to $30 million if he flops. $20 million guaranteed, another $25 in salaries over the 4 years, and the rest in roster and performance incentives.

We paid $21 million for our last QB failure.

 

[gkekoa]

History would say you are wrong. There are always teams that will open the checkbook for the Flynns, cassells, and grossmans of the world. The rookie cap has no impact because most of the teams aren't in a position to draft the top QB prospects out there.

Flynn was paid 10 mil per...what did I say my expectation for KC was?

The teams that are not in need of a QB won't likely draft one that high.

 

[GNG]

àccording to kffl .com cousin free agent market according to other owners in the league is 17 to 20 mill range sorry i cant copy and past

 

[Sharkinva]

All that being said, to me its worth an Extra $9 million to not have to go through another rebuild in three years. Or worse, since I think we finish just well enough to be drafting a 2nd/3rd tier rookie QB and end up throwing him to the wolves because we were too CHEAP to keep a guy who is developing into a solid QB because he wasnt sexy enough.

 

[gkekoa]

The Jets, Likely the Browns as they are about to likely draft yet ANOTHER QB. The Bears if they were smart.

Now I ask you... name me a rookie QB who you really think its worth wasting the next three years, and some of our best players careers on. We wasted the careers of Chris Samuels, Stephen Davis and a few others trying to MAKE guys like Jason Campbell and Patrick Ramsey into QBs worth building around. I get it, Kirk might not be Arron Rogers, but in the grand scheme of things, an extra $10 million a year for a solid QB is worth a fuckton more than starting a rookie and once again likely looking at another rebuild in three years. At WORST if given time, I think Kirk develops into yes, another Andy Dalton. And realistically, even on a deal that averages $17 million a year.. much like Tannehill, the first two years will be well below that cap wise, and the team will make sure they have an out if he fails.

The other option is to waste half that on the next RG3. And i dont mean the player himself. I mean the contract. $17 million a year average over 4 years comes out to $68 million IF he performs. Reality is it will come out to $30 million if he flops. $20 million guaranteed, another $25 in salaries over the 4 years, and the rest in roster and performance incentives.

We paid $21 million for our last QB failure.

I mentioned the Jets. I doubt they would overpay KC when they still don't know what they have in Geno.

As for playing with the cap...why doesn't NE play with it like we do? Because it is stupid and doesn't work.