So..... just a question.....

[HOF-ELWAY-7]

I think most people who have read my posts would say when the Broncos deserve criticism I criticize, when they aren't good, I say so and when they are good I also say so. In other words I think I'm a pretty objective fan.

That said, I don't understand the people burying the Broncos and Manning. It is even here amongst the local Denver media. First of all Manning was playing on one leg and he was beat the heck up all season because of a 5 crap O-Line. He had a very good season going the first 10 or so games of the season but now you would think he may be only a top 15 QB.

I don't really care about "power polls" ETC and some of the criticism is warranted but it seems that the football world isn't giving the Broncos much of a chance. I'm pretty sure that will be a motivating factor especially for #18.

 

[Broncosballer32]

I think most people who have read my posts would say when the Broncos deserve criticism I criticize, when they aren't good, I say so and when they are good I also say so. In other words I think I'm a pretty objective fan.

That said, I don't understand the people burying the Broncos and Manning. It is even here amongst the local Denver media. First of all Manning was playing on one leg and he was beat the heck up all season because of a 5 crap O-Line. He had a very good season going the first 10 or so games of the season but now you would think he may be only a top 15 QB.

I don't really care about "power polls" ETC and some of the criticism is warranted but it seems that the football world isn't giving the Broncos much of a chance. I'm pretty sure that will be a motivating factor especially for #18.

Honestly, I do not buy into the seriousness of the quad injury. I really do not. There was no noticeable limp in his gate. How serious could it have been with out a limp? The way they made it sound after that abortion in the play offs, you would have thought he needed crutches.

Manning, for intents and purposes is a complete ONE dimensional QB. He really always has been and more so now. He cannot even run a simple QB sneak.

Fact is Manning often times runs very cold. Especially in the play offs. It is rather typical with QBs that are one dimensional. First of all, play off teams are often there cause of solid defenses. Once an opposing defense takes away the ONE DIMENSION, and that QB has no other answer for what is being taken away, well 9 one and dones is what you get.

We have all had fun watching the offense and it is fun to watch at times. However, sometimes we become so enamored and mesmerized by how efficient the offense looks at times, that when it does not do well, we assume there has to be some other reason OTHER than he was simply off and has been figured out by an opposing defense.

That, is what made a QB like Elway so great in my mind. He would often be cold (passing wise) in a game where an opposing defense would take away one element and he often found all sorts of ways to lead the team. He failed too, but his play off record was outstanding.

Bottom line is I am still skeptical on how this offense is going to run. We all know what Kubiak WANTS to do, and that is the stretch run zone blocking system that is very dependent on a QB that is able to run bootleg play action. In order for that to be effective, the opposing defense needs to honor the bootleg. NO TEAM will honor Manning running any bootleg. No team. That means backside pursuit will not exactly be cut off.

I am just trying to figure out what kind of offense they are going to run with Manning. Can you all really see Peyton Manning running an offense, ala Jake Plummer?

 

[cdumler7]

I think the uncertainty is understandable with how last season ended and this season being somewhat limited funds wise so the idea of how do we fix the issues that were present last year really come into question. Throw in there has been a ton of change for the Broncos already having a very new coaching staff. Sometimes that can be the best thing in the world and it could be the difference maker that gets this team motivated and over the hump. At the same time the Broncos could fall flat on their face with it too. Throw in we will have at least a few new starters on this team with Moore, Franklin, Knighton, and JT all gone. Those are four decent names on our team.

Having said all that we still have 10 Pro Bowlers on this team from a year ago. We should still have one of the best pass rushes in football. Even if Peyton is not 100% back we still have a running game featuring a Pro Bowl RB. We still have probably the best 1-2 punch at WR in the NFL. So there are a lot of positives to look at with this team and still expect big things. At this point I do think the Patriots have taken a step back with losing 2 key pieces of their defense that helped them win a Super Bowl and possibly Wilfork who was huge against the run.

At this point I honestly do not have any expectations going into this new season. The last 2 obviously were Super Bowl or bust kind of mentality so it is weird to now be making such a change but there is a lot of unknown moving forward. Now it could be something great that just shows a very different and inspired team or it could be one that is more in transition for a year as we look to the future without Peyton Manning. There is still a lot of off season left though so I am very interested to see what Elway and company do moving forward to continue to build this team up.

 

[TDs3nOut]

Honestly, I do not buy into the seriousness of the quad injury. I really do not. There was no noticeable limp in his gate. How serious could it have been with out a limp? The way they made it sound after that abortion in the play offs, you would have thought he needed crutches.

Manning, for intents and purposes is a complete ONE dimensional QB. He really always has been and more so now. He cannot even run a simple QB sneak.

Fact is Manning often times runs very cold. Especially in the play offs. It is rather typical with QBs that are one dimensional. First of all, play off teams are often there cause of solid defenses. Once an opposing defense takes away the ONE DIMENSION, and that QB has no other answer for what is being taken away, well 9 one and dones is what you get.

We have all had fun watching the offense and it is fun to watch at times. However, sometimes we become so enamored and mesmerized by how efficient the offense looks at times, that when it does not do well, we assume there has to be some other reason OTHER than he was simply off and has been figured out by an opposing defense.

That, is what made a QB like Elway so great in my mind. He would often be cold (passing wise) in a game where an opposing defense would take away one element and he often found all sorts of ways to lead the team. He failed too, but his play off record was outstanding.

Bottom line is I am still skeptical on how this offense is going to run. We all know what Kubiak WANTS to do, and that is the stretch run zone blocking system that is very dependent on a QB that is able to run bootleg play action. In order for that to be effective, the opposing defense needs to honor the bootleg. NO TEAM will honor Manning running any bootleg. No team. That means backside pursuit will not exactly be cut off.

I am just trying to figure out what kind of offense they are going to run with Manning. Can you all really see Peyton Manning running an offense, ala Jake Plummer?

You make some good points, BB, none more so, to me, than your bolded sentence above. Still, I cannot fault PM for not being Elway; nobody besides 7 ever was!

I also understand your skepticism about PM's fit in Kubiak's offense. It is clearly less than ideal, but still probably far superior to our next best alternative. Kubiak is clearly going to have to cook up something different for PM than his bread and butter bootlegs. Based on what I've read, I think that our organization is committed to running plays that play to the strengths of our best players. Pretty basic idea, really.

Finally, I also understand your skepticism about the extent of PM's injury in the playoff loss, since as you point out, he was not limping. Personally, I try to avoid speculating about a player's health, since the player himself is really the only one who truly knows how he feels physically. Add to that that I am reluctant to believe that PM would just claim he was hurt when in fact he was not. Perhaps I am merely naive, but I give PM the benefit of the doubt.

 

[randymon]

Most people I`ve heard talk about how Manning would fit in Kubiaks system have said they`ll more than likely have to put him (Manning) in the "pistol" formation for the most part. I agree with you guys that I`am not really sure how Manning is going to adapt to Kubiak and visa versa. Who knows..maybe Oz wins the job????

 

[cdumler7]

Most people I`ve heard talk about how Manning would fit in Kubiaks system have said they`ll more than likely have to put him (Manning) in the "pistol" formation for the most part. I agree with you guys that I`am not really sure how Manning is going to adapt to Kubiak and visa versa. Who knows..maybe Oz wins the job????

The other part of this though is to realize other teams in the league have no clue on how this union will meld. From the sound of it the Broncos will be mixing a lot of what Manning thrives at with what Kubiak thrives at to form a somewhat new style of offense. Sometimes when teams just don't know what to prepare for they can really be caught flat footed. So I could see this year being one of those that teams really struggle to know how to quite defend against this offense.

 

[randymon]

The other part of this though is to realize other teams in the league have no clue on how this union will meld. From the sound of it the Broncos will be mixing a lot of what Manning thrives at with what Kubiak thrives at to form a somewhat new style of offense. Sometimes when teams just don't know what to prepare for they can really be caught flat footed. So I could see this year being one of those that teams really struggle to know how to quite defend against this offense.

True CD but also no matter what they do with Manning their options are still limited becuase of Mannings mobility . Maybe for first 5 gms or so,teams will be caught of guard,if you will, but because of the forementioned limits with Manning, teams will catch up to Denver via gm film and will be able to adjust to whatever Denver`s able to "sneak" by with early in season. Personally I think no matter what they have up their sleave, their going to need a dominant run gm and much more physical D this yr to contend. IMO of course CD

 

[cdumler7]

True CD but also no matter what they do with Manning their options are still limited becuase of Mannings mobility . Maybe for first 5 gms or so,teams will be caught of guard,if you will, but because of the forementioned limits with Manning, teams will catch up to Denver via gm film and will be able to adjust to whatever Denver`s able to "sneak" by with early in season. Personally I think no matter what they have up their sleave, their going to need a dominant run gm and much more physical D this yr to contend. IMO of course CD

I agree in part. While yes Manning is limited in some of what he can do what he can do he can do at a very high level. To me the big thing for this off season that the Broncos will need to work on is getting Manning used to being under Center on a more regular basis. Last year with the leg injury plus the switch to a power traditional run style Manning just looked completely out of sync. Give him a full off season of actually practicing with the receivers and the OL and I think Manning gets his timing back and we see an offense that teams really have a hard time knowing what is coming.

To me here is the issue I have had with the Broncos the last couple of years...Manning in the shotgun limits the plays the Broncos can run especially in the run game. Teams know 95% of the time where the run play is going if we run. The formations we set up also gave away a lot of times what we were going to do. Such as having Julius in the game teams knew 80% of the time it was going to be a pass. With Virgil in the game good chance we are running. When we set up in the bunch formations for the WR good chance we were running a screen pass to that side. If I as an arm chair GM can pick up on these tendencies pretty easy then you know the football guys could too. The Broncos have to get where teams just don't know what kind of play we are going to run and where it is going. This is where Manning playing under Center really comes into play.

Now I know people keep talking about the bootleg play but if you listen to Kubiak speak he said that this past season with Flacco they maybe maybe ran it one time a game. The playoffs are probably where they actually used it the most. So while yes it is a great play to have in the bag they just didn't run it as much as people think. Throw in the bootleg doesn't have to dictate how the run game functions. With the ZBS there are basically about 4-5 actual run plays available. Yes they can vary some but you have the outside stretch zone run, the inside zone run, the counter, and a couple others that I can't remember off the top of my head. Essentially that backside guy while yes maybe not being halted by the bootleg still has to worry about Manning dropping straight back for the pass so he still has to stay home some. Plus you still have a backside blocker that can come into play such as if we run it right Clady can cut off that backside guy right off the bat leaving a nice hole for the cut back run.

Honestly this offense the only thing we will not be doing with Manning at the helm is the naked bootleg (although he has run this about 3-4 times while with the Broncos in the past 3 years) and the zone read option that the running quarterbacks can run. Everything else is still available to this team.

Throw in not sure if people have been reading but Manning has been working with a guy that is considered the best in the business at getting older athletes in the best shape they have been in a long time. He has extended some very big name athletes careers' because of how he trains them. And I'm not just talking about them playing a few more years but playing at a very high level. A great example is that of Venus Williams who just fell off the face of the earth for a while. She worked with this man and quickly climbed back to the best female tennis player in the country. So Manning is not just sitting around doing nothing. He is working to build up his legs to handle a full season of the NFL.

 

[randymon]

Great stuff CD. I def can see Manning and the pistol working effectively for sure. I just have this bad image of Manning working behind center and his legs not giving out on him. I hope this guy works some magic with those `ol legs and I`am proven wrong believe me. My minds eye just keeps picturing Manning tripping over his own feet to many times and it see`s Oz as the type qb that makes it all work so much better. Don`t blame me! Blame me "Minds eye" CD

 

[cdumler7]

Great stuff CD. I def can see Manning and the pistol working effectively for sure. I just have this bad image of Manning working behind center and his legs not giving out on him. I hope this guy works some magic with those `ol legs and I`am proven wrong believe me. My minds eye just keeps picturing Manning tripping over his own feet to many times and it see`s Oz as the type qb that makes it all work so much better. Don`t blame me! Blame me "Minds eye" CD

See I have my blue and orange home glasses on right now so have to realize I am coming from a view through those. I guess I just like the idea of Manning (an offensive genius) being paired with another offensive genius in Kubiak and the two of them being able to figure this whole thing out.

 

[Southieinnc]

See I have my blue and orange home glasses on right now so have to realize I am coming from a view through those. I guess I just like the idea of Manning (an offensive genius) being paired with another offensive genius in Kubiak and the two of them being able to figure this whole thing out.

I don't have blue and orange glasses on. I think this year will begin with losses you shold not lose and improbable wins you should not have won. I'm hoping(as a Pats fan) that you don't make all the adjustments in time for the playoffs. I still think you have what it takes to get to the playoffs but this is a year of adjustments.....IMHO

 

[iknowftbll]

I don't think the Broncos are going to get a lot of hype going into the 2015 season. Manning's latest impression confirms to many that he folds in the playoffs and that he's fading fast. Combine that with the Broncos overhauling their coaching staff, AND hiring a coach who uses a system not optimal for Manning's style of play, and then factor in the other AFC West teams look like they're improving and I think a lot of people are questioning the Broncos chances this year.

I realize we haven't had the draft yet, but both the Chargers and Chiefs have made some solid FA signings. The Raiders will be better if they follow a natural progression over last season (which is not a given considering their changes on the coaching staff). The biggest FA news for the Broncos has been who is leaving: Pot Roast, JT, Welker, Moore, Franklin... The Broncos have made some signings that are pretty solid, but certainly not headline grabbers.

Oh, and let's not forget the Broncos defense, under Wade Phillips, will be transitioning to a 3-4 base. Typically this is a difficult transition, despite the fact the Broncos have a lot of the right personnel to play this defense. Still, it's major fluctuation, and that has a tendency to scare sports pundits.

There is a lot of change around the team this year and a lot of people are writing the Broncos off for a combination of the factors I've listed above. Truthfully I don't even know what to expect, but I genuinely don't see this Broncos team finishing worse than 10-6 and still in the playoffs. I think 11-5 is tenable, but it's hard to say not knowing the schedule or seeing a single OTA. With that said, it won't surprise me if the Broncos are not the consensus pick to win the AFC West as we get closer to the season. And I highly doubt more than a couple will have them as a Super Bowl pick.

In other words: The Broncos are no longer a media favorite. And I think that's a good thing.