I know it is only week 4

[Sportster 72]

When you consider 10 years is a pretty long career in the NFL that also means 3 years is plenty of time to build a decent team. Why have Dallas, Buffalo, Oakland the Skins all stunk the last 20 years. No patience and/or owners that are too involved in the football decisions.

 

[skinsdad62]

The problem is, your perfect plan wont work in a 3 year span. the level of talent you want will take 4-5 years to build if EVERY pick and FA works out. And then once you have the ultimate O-line, they get old waiting for you to find, a QB, WRs another RB and god knows what you need on defense. Build the LOS and all will be well is what people tell themselves to make them feel better about a team that just isnt getting it done.

how the hell do you know what level of talent i want and how much of it i think is already in place ?

 

[Sharkinva]

how the hell do you know what level of talent i want and how much of it i think is already in place ?

I would hazard a guess you dont think any of our current O-line aside from Trent is worth two squirts of used beer. And Sorry dude, but for the past 11 years you have been screaming about the O-line, so its safe to say you would want damn near all pro across the board.

 

[skinsdad62]

I would hazard a guess you dont think any of our current O-line aside from Trent is worth two squirts of used beer. And Sorry dude, but for the past 11 years you have been screaming about the O-line, so its safe to say you would want damn near all pro across the board.

i want competent people there and for your information i think we need 2 guys replaced that arent on our roster already

and for 11 years i have screamed for it because for 11 years they have failed to fix it with even avg play

 

[Sharkinva]

i want competent people there and for your information i think we need 2 guys replaced that arent on our roster already

and for 11 years i have screamed for it because for 11 years they have failed to fix it with even avg play

11 years ago we had a top ten defense, a top ten rushing attack and well you know where Im going with this. I think our weakness was is and has always been 2 feet behind the line, and five feet before the RB.

 

[skinsdad62]

11 years ago we had a top ten defense, a top ten rushing attack and well you know where Im going with this. I think our weakness was is and has always been 2 feet behind the line, and five feet before the RB.

and i think our weakness have to do at the LOS . poor o/line play and crappy pass rush that disappears when needed

top 10 defense is good but near the bottom in sacks and To's during that time tells the tale

sure our qb play has been spotty at best but our glory days had us playing avg qbs and having good to great o/lines and d/lines

we abandoned that formula and we have been inconsistent since

and i believe we have 2 good young qbs and the makings of a good defense some good wr and tes and rbs . we have a good lbs corp and some promising young cbs

what we dont have is a dependable RT , a strong center of the o/line and we have some age on the d/line and no real futures at safety

 

[Sharkinva]

and i think our weakness have to do at the LOS . poor o/line play and crappy pass rush that disappears when needed

top 10 defense is good but near the bottom in sacks and To's during that time tells the tale

sure our qb play has been spotty at best but our glory days had us playing avg qbs and having good to great o/lines and d/lines

we abandoned that formula and we have been inconsistent since

and i believe we have 2 good young qbs and the makings of a good defense some good wr and tes and rbs . we have a good lbs corp and some promising young cbs

what we dont have is a dependable RT , a strong center of the o/line and we have some age on the d/line and no real futures at safety

Our glory days were in another era, when there was no free agency, you could stash guys on IR and still develop them and have them actually practice with the team even though they were "Injured". That whole mindset doesnt fit into the NFL of today. the 3-5 year rebuild is a mindset that has past. You either get good and stay good, or you are constantly wishing for bygone eras. I wish we did still have an NFL where tackles didnt get you suspended, QBs werent untouchable, and Refs didnt decide games more than the players on the field. But the reality is, if you arent winning by year three, you are gone. And since it takes more than three years to build a team in the old school model, You better have a LEGIT QB and the ability to atleast show promise, or you likely wont get that 4th year in most cases. Right now it looks like Gruden has inherited MV2, and a weird hybrid of Romo/Ramsey. So unless the plan is to resign Trent, suck to get a top five pick for a top teir O-lineman AND outbid every one for the top 3 inside lineman on the Fa market, Gruden might not make year three with the Qbs he has.

 

[skinsdad62]

Our glory days were in another era, when there was no free agency, you could stash guys on IR and still develop them and have them actually practice with the team even though they were "Injured". That whole mindset doesnt fit into the NFL of today. the 3-5 year rebuild is a mindset that has past. You either get good and stay good, or you are constantly wishing for bygone eras. I wish we did still have an NFL where tackles didnt get you suspended, QBs werent untouchable, and Refs didnt decide games more than the players on the field. But the reality is, if you arent winning by year three, you are gone. And since it takes more than three years to build a team in the old school model, You better have a LEGIT QB and the ability to atleast show promise, or you likely wont get that 4th year in most cases. Right now it looks like Gruden has inherited MV2, and a weird hybrid of Romo/Ramsey. So unless the plan is to resign Trent, suck to get a top five pick for a top teir O-lineman AND outbid every one for the top 3 inside lineman on the Fa market, Gruden might not make year three with the Qbs he has.

i dont buy that at all . the seahawks have built up a great team in this era with strong LOS play and it took carroll how long ? he was hired in 2010 and had his team winning a superbowl by year 3 . year one he saw what he had and needed , year 2 he assembled the parts , year 3 he made his run and year 4 he is on his way again to the playoffs

we have pieces in place , we will find out what we need year one , assemble the parts in year 2 , and make the run year 3

 

[Sharkinva]

i dont buy that at all . the seahawks have built up a great team in this era with strong LOS play and it took carroll how long ? he was hired in 2010 and had his team winning a superbowl by year 3 . year one he saw what he had and needed , year 2 he assembled the parts , year 3 he made his run and year 4 he is on his way again to the playoffs

we have pieces in place , we will find out what we need year one , assemble the parts in year 2 , and make the run year 3

And again... how long did the Seahawks suck ass to get to that point?? Not to mention there was a HUGE amount of luck in there. I havent seen us finding a Sherman as a UDFA. And lets not forget they found the QB that does what Rg3 is supposed to be able to do. For every Seahawks team that rolls into it eventually.. .there are a multitude of teams that are in a perpetual rebuild. And that stellar Sea Hawks line you speak of.... Has given up more sacks over the past three years than our putrid excuse of a line.

 

[Sportster 72]

Both of you guys are right, when you build a team you need several things the top three are:

No. 1 - QB
No. 2 - Oline
No. 2A - Dline

Look at our best years, we didn't have the greatest QBs but we had the Hogs on offense and Manley and Mann putting pressure on the QB and Butz and Grant dominating the middle.

One of the things we talk about is having a plan. When Joe Gibbs came back this time he tried to bring back a power line like he had in his first tenure. Three years later Shanahan arrived and he wanted to change the entire line to implement a zone blocking scheme. I think Gruden came in and said he wants to keep the zone blocking scheme used by Shanahan which is smart because he was not changing the scheme. By drafting Long and Moses I think he is also saying he wants to improve the line play. You just can't rush these kids, they need to learn the game at this level.

I think Gruden tried to improve the Dline too by signing Hatcher and drafting Murphy. I know Murphy is technically a LB but in the nickel you will see either Kerrigan or Murphy line up with their hand in the dirt on some plays. I think we all know that pressure on the QB can make the DBs better.

Remember we gave up a lot to get Griffin. There are three top draft picks not on the team now (Two 1s and a 2) because of that trade. Management made a decision to give up something to get something. Who knows, that could have been a top OLman, Dlman and a DB. I think we have a full compliment of picks next year so with a little luck maybe Long and Moses develop and we can also address some other spots.

Snyder committed to Allen and Gruden. The staff needs to figure out (like Shark said) if they have one, two or no QBs out the guys we have here now. I don't think that is determined yet. I think dad is right in that patience needs to used to let guys like Long, Moses, Murphy, Breeland, Amerson and K. Robinsion develop and then add to it next year.

 

[skinsdad62]

And again... how long did the Seahawks suck ass to get to that point?? Not to mention there was a HUGE amount of luck in there. I havent seen us finding a Sherman as a UDFA. And lets not forget they found the QB that does what Rg3 is supposed to be able to do. For every Seahawks team that rolls into it eventually.. .there are a multitude of teams that are in a perpetual rebuild. And that stellar Sea Hawks line you speak of.... Has given up more sacks over the past three years than our putrid excuse of a line.

less then 8 year shark since they were in a superbowl how long has it been for us ?

and in year 3 of carrol they won one

 

[Sharkinva]

less then 8 year shark since they were in a superbowl how long has it been for us ?

and in year 3 of carrol they won one

Seattler has two things I can honestly say we currently dont. A good defense, and a franchise QB. Dont get me wrong, I cant stand Wilson. But he is a franchise QB in every stretch of the word. And as long as he has a solid LT overing his blind side, I think you could put you, me, Dean and Sportster at the other spots on the line and Wilson would find ways to make it work WITHOUT risking his health in the process. Sure he takes sacks, and hits... but rarely do we see him taking un-needed hits. as for our other QB, Kirk has the potential to be Dalton like, but he also apparently has bad Eli tendencies. If his game is on, its on. If it gets off, even by a hair... he starts to spiral fast.

My hope is going forward we ix the secondary first and figure out the Qb situation by the end of this season. If we are drafting lineman high in next years draft, I think we are just doing the hamster wheel thing.

 

[skinsdad62]

Seattler has two things I can honestly say we currently dont. A good defense, and a franchise QB. Dont get me wrong, I cant stand Wilson. But he is a franchise QB in every stretch of the word. And as long as he has a solid LT overing his blind side, I think you could put you, me, Dean and Sportster at the other spots on the line and Wilson would find ways to make it work WITHOUT risking his health in the process. Sure he takes sacks, and hits... but rarely do we see him taking un-needed hits. as for our other QB, Kirk has the potential to be Dalton like, but he also apparently has bad Eli tendencies. If his game is on, its on. If it gets off, even by a hair... he starts to spiral fast.

My hope is going forward we ix the secondary first and figure out the Qb situation by the end of this season. If we are drafting lineman high in next years draft, I think we are just doing the hamster wheel thing.

well their o/line is way better then you think they have 2 former pro bowlers on that line with a 1st round pick at OG

 

[Sharkinva]

well their o/line is way better then you think they have 2 former pro bowlers on that line with a 1st round pick at OG

Again if their line is that much more talented, explain the sack numbers, the fact that they havent outrshed the Redskins. I agree their line is better than ours, but not to the level you seem to be hinting at. However their QB IS for sure.

 

[skinsdad62]

Again if their line is that much more talented, explain the sack numbers, the fact that they havent outrshed the Redskins. I agree their line is better than ours, but not to the level you seem to be hinting at. However their QB IS for sure.

running qbs hold the ball longer we have one pro bowler and 4 other guys who couldnt start for a winning team in the nfl

last season the hawks were ranked 4th in rushing , we were 5

as for passing they gave up 1 more sack and threw for 515 less in 191 less yrds

this season they have played one less game then we have

we are 1st in rushing with one more game played but their YPC is 5.1 to 4.5

the passing game they have 6 sacks given up and we have 8 in one more game played