ENOUGH RGIII TALK: The real question is........

[Breed]

Its a team sport, but individuals most certainly can and do lose it for their TEAMS all the time. Case in point, the lone TD we gave up last week, was that on the D-line?? How about the line backers?? One person blew that play. Sure others might have been able to do more to help him, but in the end Rambo gave up that score. How many times have we seen Romo throw an Ill advised INT to snatch defeat out of the Jaws of Victory?? I agree that an awesome line would be nice to have. But at some point the excuse of the line simply isnt good enough needs to die in DC. Skins fans have been making this excuse (well for certain Qbs any way) for more than ten years now.

While I agree depending on game situation and circumstance that a player can blow a play costing their team a game. A TD scored with 4min and 15sec left in the 2nd quarter that only puts the scoring team up 7-6 with the XP doesn't fall into that category imo. Fitz also had enough time to smoke a cigarette and check his facebook account on that play. It looked like a 7 on 7 drill Skins defenders were so out of the play pass rush-wise. Fitz was completely in a comfortable, non-hurried position to scan the field. The punt block TD was far more damning far as a single player blowing a responsibility.

The Manning to Cruz game winning TD in the loss to the Giants in 2012 with the circumstances and situation of the game at that time. Is a far more egregious play far as defensive backfield irresponsibility and blowing a coverage that cost the Skins a game.

 

[Stymietee]

Stymiee... Sb's were won in DC in a different era of football for all intents. Rarely today do you see an offensive line that is great, or even GOOD at all five spots. Remember I went to all but one of the Super Bowls the Skins have played in during our life times, and the only reason I missed the last one is because i was otherwise occupied in 91. But I still managed to not miss watching a game even that season. I seriously doubt the HOGs would fit into this eras football because of the rules. And with the cap, the reality is you had better have an above average QB and either an offense or a defense that dominates. But you wont get both today, and trying to build a team old school (which is what you and Skinsdad seem to think will work) simply just isnt feasable. You either win with what you have got, or watch the good players you do develop sign on with squads that are winning more games than you are else where.

OK.....but tell me that even if you're right that you would rather have something closely resembling good at all five spots than what is currently constructed here. I really do think that great lines can be had today, but you are also right, with the cap, eventually someone would have to go. That said, pay your tackles and centers and replace the guards as needed. I still say that it can be done today, this is why I am not a Bruce Allen disciple. He like others have bought into this odd way of thinking about the cap, yet refuses to manage his football team by doing something that helps rather than hinder. He is really good at structuring contracts that are cap friendly but horrible at paying guys that should not be on the team thus freeing needed money and cap space to acquire better players. It's a revolving cycle, players will agree to more cap friendly contracts if the team is a constant challenger for its' division and beyond, otherwise it's get as much as possible from whatever lame as team or another that will pay them.

BTW: Old school football is no different than new school football, blocking, tackling, running, passing, catching, and defensing the ball. Sure the rules have changed and there is a cap, but if you're going to eliminate or overlook the most important aspect of the game (the front lines) then of course you'll see a difference..........I'm not sure what to call it, but lacking a well accepted name for it, I'll call it what the rest of the NFL seems to be calling it..............Washington Football!!!


PS.......Did you happen to notice who Pete Carroll singled out and was the first to thank during his SB post game interview.......yep, their GM!!!

 

[Sharkinva]

Sty... name me three teams that have five GOOD players on the line right now?? Generally you have a good to semi great LT, a couple of average guards, and MAYBE a good center and RT. You do realize that tannehill had bar none the WORST o-line in the league last year. Took almost 20 more sacks and twice as many hits as RG3 and Cousins COMBINED last year, IF ANY teams fanbase should be crying the o-line failed us it should be the Dolphins... yet.. I dont see that happening.

As for oldschool football, what the HOGs did in the 80's would be considered holding in todays NFL. We are short a starting DB right now because of what would have been consider hard hitting football 20 years ago. So no sir, the game is NOT the same.

 

[Stymietee]

Sty... name me three teams that have five GOOD players on the line right now?? Generally you have a good to semi great LT, a couple of average guards, and MAYBE a good center and RT. You do realize that tannehill had bar none the WORST o-line in the league last year. Took almost 20 more sacks and twice as many hits as RG3 and Cousins COMBINED last year, IF ANY teams fanbase should be crying the o-line failed us it should be the Dolphins... yet.. I dont see that happening.

As for oldschool football, what the HOGs did in the 80's would be considered holding in todays NFL. We are short a starting DB right now because of what would have been consider hard hitting football 20 years ago. So no sir, the game is NOT the same.

I did notice that you've pointed to the Dolphins a comparison that is especially poignant given the subject here. Sure I'll bite, but keep in mind that what you're asking me to do here is in relation to todays game. The teams would be...........Seattle.....SF.......Arizona......Indy.......Carolina......Cincy. Notice that I did not include Denver and N.E? well that's because their QB's make them better than they are a luxury that we currently don't have. Anybody thinking that RGII is at this level really should get out more.

In comparison I'm asking to at least try to build a front line that is not merely good in this generation. If your example is correct then having a line that is better than what is considered best in this generation will yield the benefits that will have others making comparisons to the Hogs! (Generationally speaking). Remember that's what they're doing with QB's these days! It just seems to me that resigning one's thoughts to it being impossible relegates to failure without ever trying.

 

[Sharkinva]

I did notice that you've pointed to the Dolphins a comparison that is especially poignant given the subject here. Sure I'll bite, but keep in mind that what you're asking me to do here is in relation to todays game. The teams would be...........Seattle.....SF.......Arizona......Indy.......Carolina......Cincy. Notice that I did not include Denver and N.E? well that's because their QB's make them better than they are a luxury that we currently don't have. Anybody thinking that RGII is at this level really should get out more.

In comparison I'm asking to at least try to build a front line that is not merely good in this generation. If your example is correct then having a line that is better than what is considered best in this geration will yield the benefits that will have others making comparisons to the Hogs! (Generationally speaking). It just seems to me that resigning one's thoughts to it being impossible relegates to failure without ever trying.

You realize Wilson took more sacks than RG3 last year

Palmer.. same deal

Luck.. took less sacks, but then again I actually consider him a possible Elite QB in a few years with the mind and quick release to make up for an average O-line

Kaepernick... oh wait.. he took more sacks too.

So thats four out of five... Let see here Who was the 5th?? O right Cincy with Dalton. Well yes he did take less sacks. But was that due to his uber powerful O-line?? His ability to complete timing passes and make quick decisions.... OR shock of shocks.. .a combination of a slightly above average line AND a QB that helps his line out by getting rid of the ball ON TIME.

damn forgot about Carolina.... Oh wait... Cam took more sacks too.

 

[Stymietee]

You realize Wilson took more sacks than RG3 last year

Palmer.. same deal

Luck.. took less sacks, but then again I actually consider him a possible Elite QB in a few years with the mind and quick release to make up for an average O-line

Kaepernick... oh wait.. he took more sacks too.

So thats four out of five... Let see here Who was the 5th?? O right Cincy with Dalton. Well yes he did take less sacks. But was that due to his uber powerful O-line?? His ability to complete timing passes and make quick decisions.... OR shock of shocks.. .a combination of a slightly above average line AND a QB that helps his line out by getting rid of the ball ON TIME.

damn forgot about Carolina.... Oh wait... Cam took more sacks too.

Just click on 2013 to see the rankings per game...........

NFL Team QB Sacked per Game - TeamRankings

TeamRankings: Predictions & Stats for NFL, NBA, MLB, NCAAF, NCAABnfl/stat/qb-sacked-per-game

 

[Sharkinva]

So lets recap... FOUR of your six GOOD lines gave up more sacks than the Redskins did, of the two that didnt... On has what is generally accepted as a budding Elite QB. And the other , well Cincy MIGHT be your outlier...


But all in all this points more to the fact that there are no HOGs in this era of the NFL.

 

[Sharkinva]

Just click on 2013 to see the rankings per game...........

NFL Team QB Sacked per Game - TeamRankings

TeamRankings: Predictions & Stats for NFL, NBA, MLB, NCAAF, NCAABnfl/stat/qb-sacked-per-game

By your own stats link, we came in 21 out of 32 teams in the NFL. And at 21 we were TIED with Seattle and Pittsburgh. Note that YOU claimed Seattle had a GOOD offensive line. So what does that say??

 

[Stymietee]

By your own stats link, we came in 21 out of 32 teams in the NFL. And at 21 we were TIED with Seattle and Pittsburgh. Note that YOU claimed Seattle had a GOOD offensive line. So what does that say??

I did notice that too...there is a very logical explanation as to why that happens. It is not just that the sacks happened, but when they happened. On that Seattle team, they had offset plays that yielded positive gains in relation to the sacks. You could NEVER say that about this team!! In fact you could easily make the argument that when the opportunities came this team yielded sacks and/or negative gains where Seattle did the opposite.

 

[Sharkinva]

I did notice that too...there is a very logical explanation as to why that happens. It is not just that the sacks happened, but when they happened. On that Seattle team, they had offset plays that yielded positive gains in relation to the sacks. You could NEVER say that about this team!!

First off Sty, let me say I actually like you. despite the whole name thing and all that. But come on man, the line is horrible is an excuse, reserved for certain QBs in DC. Now you are just spinning it to say well Seattle had offsetting plays that make it look not as bad. Our line, as I have said for many MANY years, is average. Good at run blocking, but average at pass blocking. they are no where near the worst line in the NFL as many have claimed. A little more help from the guy under center actually would make all the difference.

 

[Stymietee]

First off Sty, let me say I actually like you. despite the whole name thing and all that. But come on man, the line is horrible is an excuse, reserved for certain QBs in DC. Now you are just spinning it to say well Seattle had offsetting plays that make it look not as bad. Our line, as I have said for many MANY years, is average. Good at run blocking, but average at pass blocking. they are no where near the worst line in the NFL as many have claimed. A little more help from the guy under center actually would make all the difference.

OK I accept your reasoning, but let me ask you this....just as you say that the whole offensive line thing is an excuse...could it not be said of the QB as well? I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "certain" QB's, but when the time comes you'll let us all know [again] (just in case I might have missed it in one of your earlier posts). Here's where we differ though......I am firmly in the camp that holds that outside of Williams, none of our OL men should be starters in the NFL in this generation nor any other.

BTW: that whole name thing that you spoke of has no bearing on how I see my fellow team supporters. Much respect to you, Dad and all others who don't hold my POV. When it comes to this team I consider you guys family, so what's a family squabble to be called except normal?

 

[Raid]

I thought the real question would be...when will the Natives win the division? 2015?...16?


In the year 2525.... if football is still alive......

 

[Sharkinva]

OK I accept your reasoning, but let me ask you this....just as you say that the whole offensive line thing is an excuse...could it not be said of the QB as well? I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "certain" QB's, but when the time comes you'll let us all know [again] (just in case I might have missed it in one of your earlier posts). Here's where we differ though......I am firmly in the camp that holds that outside of Williams, none of our OL men should be starters in the NFL in this generation nor any other.

BTW: that whole name thing that you spoke of has no bearing on how I see my fellow team supporters. Much respect to you, Dad and all others who don't hold my POV. When it comes to this team I consider you guys family, so what's a family squabble to be called except normal?

I will be straight up with it. Aside from Campbell and RG3, I have never seen the line be blamed as the reason why our passing game struggles. I dont recall the same defenses for Mcnabb, Ramsey, Grossman, Beck, Matthews or Weureffel. With them it was always the QB sucks and they are why we lose. For some reason Campbell and Rg3 apparently could/can do no wrong and it was the team failing THEM.

 

[Stymietee]

I thought the real question would be...when will the Natives win the division? 2015?...16?


In the year 2525.... if football is still alive......

.................."if football is still alive"...... you know that is a question that has me wondering if it is not already on life support from bettors and Fantasy leagues everywhere. The games themselves are nearly unwatchable now, except for those with these others ventures in mind.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

If you think that the most important position is QB then there is nothing that I can do to help you.

You may want to ask a Colts fan about that.

 

[j_y19]

You may want to ask a Colts fan about that.

In today's NFL, it is clearly the most important position.

 

[tlance]

The Redskins' issue is not a lack of talent at the top of the roster, it is a lack of talent at the bottom. We have plenty of guys who would start and even be standouts on some of the better teams in the league.

The lack of quality depth, however, is a glaring issue that has been here ever since Daniel Snyder took over. The man simply has zero understanding of how to build a quality program. Every year, there is a shiny new toy that he has to have, and the overall roster continues to be weak as a result.

Just look at the prices that we have paid for big name players over the years. Haynesworth, McNabb, RG3, and many, many more. The franchises who win consistently understand the value of building through the draft. They don't give away picks and they value depth over a big splash in free agency.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

In today's NFL, it is clearly the most important position.

It's not even an argument really. But something tells me I'm about to get into an argument about it.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

The opening poster said start for any other team, not every team and not even the good teams. With that criteria the list is even longer. His claim was there is not one starter on this team that would start anywhere else in the league. That is insane.

 

[j_y19]

The opening poster said start for any other team, not every team and not even the good teams. With that criteria the list is even longer. His claim was there is not one starter on this team that would start anywhere else in the league. That is insane.

Hell, just about every starter we have on our defense would start for the Cowboys. Of course that's not saying much......