ENOUGH RGIII TALK: The real question is........

[Stymietee]

How many of our current starters would actually start on ANY other team? How about being a back-up on ANY other team? Answer those questions and you'll soon recognize what truly ails this team. OK, there are a few at the skill positions, but not many, and on defense I really don't think that there is one player who would currently start ANYWHERE else....some nice back-ups......Think about that!!

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Garcon
DJax
Morris
Trent
Hatcher
Riley/Robinson (one of the 2 are good enough)

 

[j_y19]

Huh? Both Rak and Kerrigan start on just about every team. Keenan robinson appears to be a budding star and starts on most teams. Same holds true for Amerson. Coefield and Hatcher start for just about any team. Hall is a starter on many teams (over half). Riley is a starter on some teams.

On offense, Trent goes without saying. Both our #1 and #2 WR are starters everywhere. Roberts is a starter on many teams. Reed is a starter (if he can stay on the field). Alfred is a starter on most teams.

Talent is not our issue. This is the most talented team we've had in a decade. However, we are very weak at a couple of key positions. Safety and OL most notably. Then, of course there is the most important position.....just to early to call on RG3.

 

[Sharkinva]

So again its back to the we dont have enough talent around and half our roster wouldnt even be backups on any other team. I know its going to sound rather dickish, but I have only seen this line of reasoning made for two QBs in the last 20 years in Washington.

 

[Breed]

Not to sound more dickish than Sharkinva or anyone else, but aside from the QB position, talent or lack thereof, is one of the least and possibly the least of our worries or issues.

How that talent is used/coached is an issue.

Not including Gruden n company, at least not yet, coaching itself is an issue.

The mindset/direction/long-term goals of the team is an issue.

Shitty ownership has been a constant issue.

Both coaches and players hustling the Skins, even though the Skins FO themselves seem to be a happy and willing participants, has been an issue.

Lack of patience and trying to take shortcuts to where they claim they want to go has been an issue.

The Skins being used as if they were a real life fantasy football team is an issue.

if indeed talent is an issue. IMO its pretty far down the list of issues that have been/are much bigger issues.

 

[Stymietee]

Huh? Both Rak and Kerrigan start on just about every team. Keenan robinson appears to be a budding star and starts on most teams. Same holds true for Amerson. Coefield and Hatcher start for just about any team. Hall is a starter on many teams (over half). Riley is a starter on some teams.

On offense, Trent goes without saying. Both our #1 and #2 WR are starters everywhere. Roberts is a starter on many teams. Reed is a starter (if he can stay on the field). Alfred is a starter on most teams.

Talent is not our issue. This is the most talented team we've had in a decade. However, we are very weak at a couple of key positions. Safety and OL most notably. Then, of course there is the most important position.....just to early to call on RG3.

No way Rak or Kerrigan starts on every team, there are two teams that I see them starting on considering that they were DE's coming out of school..........Washington and Washington. I don't disagree with Robinson, but at this point he doesn't start. Same holds true for Amerson. Coefield and Hatcher. Hall should not be starting for this team.

If you think that the most important position is QB then there is nothing that I can do to help you.

 

[j_y19]

No way Rak or Kerrigan starts on every team, there are two teams that I see them starting on considering that they were DE's coming out of school..........Washington and Washington. I don't disagree with Robinson, but at this point he doesn't start. Same holds true for Amerson. Coefield and Hatcher. Hall should not be starting for this team.

If you think that the most important position is QB then there is nothing that I can do to help you.

Rak and Kerrigan are both PB players, are you kidding? And, please, impart your wisdom.......what is the most important position on our team, if not QB. This should be interesting.......

 

[Stymietee]

Not to sound more dickish than Sharkinva or anyone else, but aside from the QB position, talent or lack thereof, is one of the least and possibly the least of our worries or issues.

How that talent is used/coached is an issue.

Not including Gruden n company, at least not yet, coaching itself is an issue.

The mindset/direction/long-term goals of the team is an issue.

Shitty ownership has been a constant issue.

Both coaches and players hustling the Skins, even though the Skins FO themselves seem to be a happy and willing participants, has been an issue.

Lack of patience and trying to take shortcuts to where they claim they want to go has been an issue.

The Skins being used as if they were a real life fantasy football team is an issue.

if indeed talent is an issue. IMO its pretty far down the list of issues that have been/are much bigger issues.

I think that the point that you're missing is that in the NFL too many people just like in the NBA has been sold on the superstar leading the pack theory. It really doesn't work in the NFL, sure there are exceptions to every rule, but remember they are exceptions.(Manning, Brady, maybe Brees) I don't buy into that theory, therefore I don't believe that the QB is the most important position in football. In fact I DO offer that QB is the MOST Dependent position on football.

I have no argument with the rest of your post.

 

[Stymietee]

Rak and Kerrigan are both PB players, are you kidding? And, please, impart your wisdom.......what is the most important position on our team, if not QB. This should be interesting.......

Tell you what...I'll give you the greatest QB in history, your choice and I'll take the greatest OL and DL in history and let's see who wins the most games.

 

[j_y19]

Tell you what...I'll give you the greatest QB in history, your choice and I'll take the greatest OL and DL in history and let's see who wins the most games.

OK.

 

[martinez]

this isnt the issue this year, it was the past few years because of the cap.

 

[j_y19]

Tell you what...I'll give you the greatest QB in history, your choice and I'll take the greatest OL and DL in history and let's see who wins the most games.

So who you got?

 

[Stymietee]

this isnt the issue this year, it was the past few years because of the cap.

It is the issue every year....games in the NFL are won and lost up front (both sides of the ball) I don't care who you have anywhere else or how much you're willing to pay for them. If you don't address your line issues F.I.R.S.T. you're wasting your time, and hoping that your fan base in distracted by the shiny new pieces that you've gotten.

 

[Sharkinva]

It is the issue every year....games in the NFL are won and lost up front (both sides of the ball) I don't care who you have anywhere else or how much you're willing to pay for them. If you don't address your line issues F.I.R.S.T. you're wasting your time, and hoping that your fan base in distracted by the shiny new pieces that you've gotten.

The mantra of we dont have enough talent on the line has been beat to death, usually by fanbases attempting to defend the poor, suspect or mind baffling play of a starting QB who isnt quite up to snuff. Funny thing is, I never see fans of teams like Denver, the Colts, Saints and Patriots crying the line isnt doing enough. BUt guys like Manning (both of them) Brees, and even Rogers take just as many sacks and hits.

Why is that I wonder. And if you need further proof, The Cowboys have committed heavily to their offensive line over the past three seasons. They are widely considered to have one of the most talented lines in the NFL right now.... and are also solid at the Skill positions. The defense is suspect sure, but if you check out their board this week, most are NOT blaming the defense for the loss. And I dare say you would contend their line is not talented enough.

 

[Breed]

I think that the point that you're missing is that in the NFL too many people just like in the NBA has been sold on the superstar leading the pack theory. It really doesn't work in the NFL, sure there are exceptions to every rule, but remember they are exceptions.(Manning, Brady, maybe Brees) I don't buy into that theory, therefore I don't believe that the QB is the most important position in football. In fact I DO offer that QB is the MOST Dependent position on football.

I have no argument with the rest of your post.

I wouldn't really argue with you. I in fact wonder at times if I've been falsely seduced into believing the QB position is more important than it actually is. Posting with Dave long enough can have that effect I guess.

Given the offer you're making of best ever OL and DL vs best ever QB. Make the DL that of the 4-3 variety, I'd take the lines in a heartbeat and not look back. I think I'd even take the best ever 3-4 DL as well, but I'd have to give it a little more thought.

I'm a believer in building a football team front to back, from the inside out.

 

[Stymietee]

The mantra of we dont have enough talent on the line has been beat to death, usually by fanbases attempting to defend the poor, suspect or mind baffling play of a starting QB who isnt quite up to snuff. Funny thing is, I never see fans of teams like Denver, the Colts, Saints and Patriots crying the line isnt doing enough. BUt guys like Manning (both of them) Brees, and even Rogers take just as many sacks and hits.

Why is that I wonder. And if you need further proof, The Cowboys have committed heavily to their offensive line over the past three seasons. They are widely considered to have one of the most talented lines in the NFL right now.... and are also solid at the Skill positions. The defense is suspect sure, but if you check out their board this week, most are NOT blaming the defense for the loss. And I dare say you would contend their line is not talented enough.

You don't dispute that games are won and loss at the LOS do you? Yes talent at the skill positions do count, but only to the extent that they don't lose games. Yes your example using Dallas is a good one, but remember I said that there must be strength at BOTH Lines of scrimmage. I do understand where you're going with this and I agree. There have been many many talented QB's who have come into the league only to wasted because the team failed to give them what was required to achieve, or had failings of their own to overcome or not. RGIII could follow that line easily given what this team is putting in front of him. I'll say this about your idea....quarterbacks are given too much credit for victories and too much blame for losses. I just don't get it....maybe I'm too old to change this simple philosophy , in a team sport teams lose not the individual.

 

[Stymietee]

I wouldn't really argue with you. I in fact wonder at times if I've been falsely seduced into believing the QB position is more important than it actually is. Posting with Dave long enough can have that effect I guess.

Given the offer you're making of best ever OL and DL vs best ever QB. Make the DL that of the 4-3 variety, I'd take the lines in a heartbeat and not look back. I think I'd even take the best ever 3-4 DL as well, but I'd have to give it a little more thought.

I'm a believer in building a football team front to back, from the inside out.

This I believe is the Michael Jordan rule, to let the NBA tell it he singlehandedly won those NBA titles. Lots of money to be had using that mantra too, but it's not really true. So the Johnny come latelys are the NFL touting the QB, creating rules that destroys the game but promotes their play then selling that player (position) as the most important in the game. As Shark has pointed out, Washington wants to be seen as drafting the second coming at QB....but reality bites. Sure there are many who want to make excuses for the teams failures and I can see where the mind sold on the BS will buy that it is almost entirely the QB's fault. If, however you take a look back at other second comings, you'll find that the organization that drafted them did little to help them become successful. I wonder if our reality will be that it is already too late to help our current second coming.

 

[Sharkinva]

You don't dispute that games are won and loss at the LOS do you? Yes talent at the skill positions do count, but only to the extent that they don't lose games. Yes your example using Dallas is a good one, but remember I said that there must be strength at BOTH Lines of scrimmage. I do understand where you're going with this and I agree. There have been many many talented QB's who have come into the league only to wasted because the team failed to give them what was required to achieve, or had failings of their own to overcome or not. RGIII could follow that line easily given what this team is putting in front of him. I'll say this about your idea....quarterbacks are given too much credit for victories and too much blame for losses. I just don't get it....maybe I'm too old to change this simple philosophy , in a team sport teams lose not the individual.

Its a team sport, but individuals most certainly can and do lose it for their TEAMS all the time. Case in point, the lone TD we gave up last week, was that on the D-line?? How about the line backers?? One person blew that play. Sure others might have been able to do more to help him, but in the end Rambo gave up that score. How many times have we seen Romo throw an Ill advised INT to snatch defeat out of the Jaws of Victory?? I agree that an awesome line would be nice to have. But at some point the excuse of the line simply isnt good enough needs to die in DC. Skins fans have been making this excuse (well for certain Qbs any way) for more than ten years now.

 

[Stymietee]

Its a team sport, but individuals most certainly can and do lose it for their TEAMS all the time. Case in point, the lone TD we gave up last week, was that on the D-line?? How about the line backers?? One person blew that play. Sure others might have been able to do more to help him, but in the end Rambo gave up that score. How many times have we seen Romo throw an Ill advised INT to snatch defeat out of the Jaws of Victory?? I agree that an awesome line would be nice to have. But at some point the excuse of the line simply isnt good enough needs to die in DC. Skins fans have been making this excuse (well for certain Qbs any way) for more than ten years now.

See this is exactly what I'm talking about. On that play you most certainly could point to Rambo and say that he blew the coverage, but did he? According to all reports and even directly from the mouth of our DC the DB's will play 10 yards away from the receivers. How far away was Rambo when that reception was made? Clearly like most teams in the NFL he was not close enough away to effect the reception and definitely too far away to make an effective tackle. I blame Haslett for not trusting in his players enough to play tight and/or demanding players who can. I am never satisfied with good enough, after being born to a generation that witnessed GREAT football, it is very difficult to watch this version and even more so to watch representatives of my home team settle for far less than good enough. Great QB play is just that, great QB play, it say nothing of the rest of the team, remember Warren Moon? BTW: if we had an awesome line I doubt seriously that at this point in its' history the team would be riding a 9 game losing streak dating back to a season ago. I cannot keep harping on QB play when SB's were won here with QB's with far less talent than the current standard bearer and not at least wonder how that was possible.

 

[Sharkinva]

See this is exactly what I'm talking about. On that play you most certainly could point to Rambo and say that he blew the coverage, but did he? According to all reports and even directly from the mouth of our DC the DB's will play 10 yards away from the receivers. How far away was Rambo when that reception was made? Clearly like most teams in the NFL he was not close enough away to effect the reception and definitely too far away to make an effective tackle. I blame Haslett for not trusting in his players enough to play tight and/or demanding players who can. I am never satisfied with good enough, after being born to a generation that witnessed GREAT football, it is very difficult to watch this version and even more so to watch representatives of my home team settle for far less than good enough. Great QB play is just that, great QB play, it say nothing of the rest of the team, remember Warren Moon? BTW: if we had an awesome line I doubt seriously that at this point in its' history the team would be riding a 9 game losing streak dating back to a season ago. I cannot keep harping on QB play when SB's were won here with QB's with far less talent than the current standard bearer and not at least wonder how that was possible.

Stymiee... Sb's were won in DC in a different era of football for all intents. Rarely today do you see an offensive line that is great, or even GOOD at all five spots. Remember I went to all but one of the Super Bowls the Skins have played in during our life times, and the only reason I missed the last one is because i was otherwise occupied in 91. But I still managed to not miss watching a game even that season. I seriously doubt the HOGs would fit into this eras football because of the rules. And with the cap, the reality is you had better have an above average QB and either an offense or a defense that dominates. But you wont get both today, and trying to build a team old school (which is what you and Skinsdad seem to think will work) simply just isnt feasable. You either win with what you have got, or watch the good players you do develop sign on with squads that are winning more games than you are else where.