Griff to Roberts Film Breakdown

[gkekoa]

the HC got fired because he was 3-13 and if you believe the CSI theories , wanted to quit after the seatle game

He is also the first coach in over a decade to win the division.

Why would he have wanted to quit after the Seattle game?

 

[skinsdad62]

He is also the first coach in over a decade to win the division.

Why would he have wanted to quit after the Seattle game?

you know i wrote that down as fact without any real evidence . much like the stuff RG3 has done to him

in answer to your question i can only speculate

the positive , non sinister part of me , thinks he simply was mentally drained but i have no evidence of that at all

i think the story is bunk

what i think happened last season was simply that after high expectations the team collapsed and little things became big things i think shanny tried to win and i think Rg3 tried to come back and play at a high level . mistakes were made on both sides and there you have it but i have no evidence of that at all hence it is theory and speculation and is not to be taken as fact and used as a talking points memo

but alas others dont see it that way

we are into game 2 of a new season and all we talk about is Rg3 and how he is the sole person responsible . the team , as a hole is responsible , and if 2 x superbowl champ eli manning can struggle ina new scheme and way of playing as a ten year vet , why cant a 3rd year pro struggle ?

 

[Sharkinva]

Again, we dont need a book to explain actions that were evident to any one looking. RG3 wanted Shanahan fired. If thats not the case, when multiple players came out and said on record they hoped Shanahan would still be the coach... RG3 was deliberately silent even when directly asked.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

If thats not the case, when multiple players came out and said on record they hoped Shanahan would still be the coach...

Because they were lying. Those comments were made while Shanny was still the coach. Brian Mitchell explained it but it should not have needed explaining. What player in their right mind would say they hope their coach is fired when he was still the coach? They always give support until the ship has left the dock. even when they don't really feel this way. Hell some even spoke up for Zorn, you really buy that?

 

[j_y19]

Because they were lying. Those comments were made while Shanny was still the coach. Brian Mitchell explained it but it should not have needed explaining. What player in their right mind would say they hope their coach is fired when he was still the coach? They always give support until the ship has left the dock. even when they don't really feel this way. Hell some even spoke up for Zorn, you really buy that?

Cmon, DGF, there were plenty of players that supported both Shanahans. Even Cooley said that he liked playing for Shanahan and it was Shanahan that cut him. There is no doubt that the rift between RG3 and Shanahan was a primary reason why he was fired. Shanahan had a huge responsibility in this rift, but RG3 was by no means innocent. He threw shanahan under the bus with revisionist history after his injury. It was RG3 that was telling the coach that he was OK to play (as well as Andrews). Then it was RG3 that said a few months later that it was the coach's decision to play him. This is typical RG3 speak. Technically he is right, but he was right there influencing Shanahan to make the decision.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Cmon, DGF, there were plenty of players that supported both Shanahans. Even Cooley said that he liked playing for Shanahan and it was Shanahan that cut him. There is no doubt that the rift between RG3 and Shanahan was a primary reason why he was fired. Shanahan had a huge responsibility in this rift, but RG3 was by no means innocent. He threw shanahan under the bus with revisionist history after his injury. It was RG3 that was telling the coach that he was OK to play (as well as Andrews). Then it was RG3 that said a few months later that it was the coach's decision to play him. This is typical RG3 speak. Technically he is right, but he was right there influencing Shanahan to make the decision.

So 3-13 had nothing to do with it? Come on now. I totally agree that Griff shares blame for playing with an injury. And you are right, he is talking out of both sides of his mouth. But it's the coaches job to make the final call, he was the adult here, and nobody should be questioning the fact that he should have pulled Griffin from the Seattle game. And nobody should be questioning how dumb it was to continue to call running plays for the QB. And I'm no hater, I supported Shanny right up to the end when all the other KFFL posters were jumping on me. But he clearly needed to be fired with or without Griffin's input.

And Hell yes players say they support the coach when they do not really believe it. If you don't buy that then you are being totally naive. Sure some players still supported him but many who spoke out were lying, it's as simple as that. Happens all the time. Again Players were voicing support for Zorn near the end, you buying that too?

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

GK... Im not going to say he will never be a GOOD QB. But I will say this, all the elite QBs have something that sets them apart from the good to very good QBs. In the case of Peyton Manning, its his mind and ability to outthink a defense combined with his quick release. This was the same trait Aikman had (yes fuck he was elite). Montana had his quick release and his ability to move. A trait that all your mobile Elite QBs have is the ability to move around and keep their eyes scanning down field. What Robert currently lacks is the eyes down field part. Its why he didnt pick up Roberts until late. It worked in his rookie year because even when he didnt lok until late, defenses were more worried about getting beat by him taking off running. Without that threat, CBs stay honest to the route instead of trying to come up and prevent the run. Which is why you dont see RG3 hitting on those broken coverage plays that we saw in 2012.

All in all I think he can be an average to good pocket passer. So the real question becomes are you ok with a Jason Campbell to Joe Flacco type of player. Or did you expect more of an Arron Rogers out of this move.

Again I do not know how you can come to this conclusion after only 30 games. You are right, Troy Aikman was in fact elite. However his first 2 years numbers have been posted again and again and they were far worse than Griffin's. Not even close. How was Troy Aikan's quick mind in reading defenses in his first 2 years? Oh yeah, 36 picks and QB ratings of 55 and 66. Interesting how he improved with game experience. Guess there's no possibility that happens with Robert Griffin huh? By every account he is very smart and works very very hard.

You may end up being right but your position to date is kind of hard to understand given other QBs you mentioned and how they started.

 

[j_y19]

So 3-13 had nothing to do with it? Come on now. I totally agree that Griff shares blame for playing with an injury. And you are right, he is talking out of both sides of his mouth. But it's the coaches job to make the final call, he was the adult here, and nobody should be questioning the fact that he should have pulled Griffin from the Seattle game. And nobody should be questioning how dumb it was to continue to call running plays for the QB. And I'm no hater, I supported Shanny right up to the end when all the other KFFL posters were jumping on me. But he clearly needed to be fired with or without Griffin's input.

And Hell yes players say they support the coach when they do not really believe it. If you don't buy that then you are being totally naive. Sure some players still supported him but many who spoke out were lying, it's as simple as that. Happens all the time. Again Players were voicing support for Zorn near the end, you buying that too?

I said the rift was a primary reason, not the only reason. Shanahan deserved to get fired. He acted terribly through the whole debacle. He lost control of one of his players and didn't handle it well. Why, we may never really know, but a part of it has to be his huge ego. But this still doesn't absolve RG3. He also acted questionably, but I optimistically mark it up to immaturity. I hope I'm right and he grows out of his me first ways (this will set Dad off). If he doesn't, this will not bode well for him or the team.

I also never said that all players support shanahan, but there were some key ones that did, including Moss and Garcon. There was tension between those 2 and RG3 last year. I don't know if you heard both of their interviews after the Philly game, but they both came down hard on RG3. Now, as Dad will point out, a few days later, Moss softened his stance. why, we can only speculate. But I've found that someone's initial reactions are usually based in more truth than the revised comments after they have been "advised".

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Yeah I do remember the comments by Moss and Garcon on Griff. And as I've said taking accountability was a real issue for him. The key word here is "was". He owned up to a bad performance in the Baltimore preseason game and again after Sunday. He is now doing exactly as you haters have asked him to do, yet you still bring up the Philly game from last year as if it's still a problem. Moss softened his statement because he was trying to put out the fire he created by making negative comments about a teammate, a no-no in pro sports as everyone knows.

When you state that Griffin was the primary reason for Shanny's firing I took that to mean exactly as it reads. It strongly implies that without his input Shannahan would still be here. That's how I look at the word "primary". As in the video is the primary reason Ray Rice has been suspended indefinitely, not the punch.

Bottom line if Shanny went 11-5 and won the division he would still be the coach. When you go 3-13 in your third year you are history unless you work for Abe Pollin.

 

[j_y19]

Yeah I do remember the comments by Moss and Garcon on Griff. And as I've said taking accountability was a real issue for him. The key word here is "was". He owned up to a bad performance in the Baltimore preseason game and again after Sunday. He is now doing exactly as you haters have asked him to do, yet you still bring up the Philly game from last year as if it's still a problem. Moss softened his statement because he was trying to put out the fire he created by making negative comments about a teammate, a no-no in pro sports as everyone knows.

When you state that Griffin was the primary reason for Shanny's firing I took that to mean exactly as it reads. It strongly implies that without his input Shannahan would still be here. That's how I look at the word "primary". As in the video is the primary reason Ray Rice has been suspended indefinitely, not the punch.

Bottom line if Shanny went 11-5 and won the division he would still be the coach. When you go 3-13 in your third year you are history unless you work for Abe Pollin.

So I'm a hater because I am willing to view RG3 critically? No wonder you have been in so many pissing contests in your short time here. But I guess all those that don't see eye to eye with you are haters. I guess RG3 isn't the only one with maturity issues.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

So I'm a hater because I am willing to view RG3 critically? No wonder you have been in so many pissing contests in your short time here. But I guess all those that don't see eye to eye with you are haters. I guess RG3 isn't the only one with maturity issues.

Wait, what? Was it so bad what I wrote? If so I apologize. I'm just tired of all the Griff hate, seems like everyone piles on the guy for everything.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

As a follow up you are pretty much blaming Robert Griffin for the firing, that's how I read "primarily". I see that as another shot at the guy when in my opinion a 3-13 record in his 3rd year will get almost every coach fired with our without his QBs opinion coming into play. I see that as hater talk, you don't. So again I'm sorry if I offended.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Finally I've gotten into so many pissing matches because I am on one end of a very polarizing topic and I'm not afraid to voice my opinion and back it up with facts. If that is acting immaturely then please tell me how a poster who screams that I am "fucking ignorant" as he threatens to punch out his monitor is behaving.

 

[Sharkinva]

As a follow up you are pretty much blaming Robert Griffin for the firing, that's how I read "primarily". I see that as another shot at the guy when in my opinion a 3-13 record in his 3rd year will get almost every coach fired with our without his QBs opinion coming into play. I see that as hater talk, you don't. So again I'm sorry if I offended.

3-13 will also guarantee the QB is replaced, or at the least put on notice and his job opened up to competition in most places.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

3-13 will also guarantee the QB is replaced, or at the least put on notice and his job opened up to competition in most places.

Not when people who are paid to do this for a living understand that 3-13 does not fall entirely on the QB.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

3-13 will also guarantee the QB is replaced, or at the least put on notice and his job opened up to competition in most places.

You're right. Excepting 2 facts: an injury and a rookie year never before seen in the NFL. That does make a difference.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Not to mention the backup could be had for a pick and again people who are paid to make these decisions decided that he was not the answer.

 

[Sharkinva]

Not when people who are paid to do this for a living understand that 3-13 does not fall entirely on the QB.

Really dude? seriously. Name me the last 3-13 or hell 4-12 or even 6-10 team that had a second year QB, had its coach fired and the QBs job was NEVER even remotely in question. You guys are always harping that I should forget about the trade. Well I agree, screw the trade, coming off a 3-13 season with a new head coach MOST sane teams with two young QBs would have had an open competition for the spot. See I think the real mistake here is they hired Gruden to "fix" RG3. You hire a coach to fix the team, but something tells me if gruden decided RG3 isnt in the best interest of the team, we will have alot of the problems we had last year all over. And i know that a large portion of the fan base would turn on Gruden if he even hinted at Cousins playing for any reason other than RG3 being in an iron lung.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Really dude? seriously. Name me the last 3-13 or hell 4-12 or even 6-10 team that had a second year QB, had its coach fired and the QBs job was NEVER even remotely in question. You guys are always harping that I should forget about the trade. Well I agree, screw the trade, coming off a 3-13 season with a new head coach MOST sane teams with two young QBs would have had an open competition for the spot. See I think the real mistake here is they hired Gruden to "fix" RG3. You hire a coach to fix the team, but something tells me if gruden decided RG3 isnt in the best interest of the team, we will have alot of the problems we had last year all over. And i know that a large portion of the fan base would turn on Gruden if he even hinted at Cousins playing for any reason other than RG3 being in an iron lung.

I agree that you hire a coach to fix a team. I think Jay was hired to help Griffin develop as well as help the team. I do not feel these two goals are mutually exclusive...

Also, if Griff shows no progress and the team continues to lose, I don't think anyone (fans or the front office) would be opposed to trying something else.

I think what is at issue is the time frame being discussed. What time frame is 'reasonable' is more the relevant question, IMO.

 

[Sharkinva]

I agree that you hire a coach to fix a team. I think Jay was hired to help Griffin develop as well as help the team. I do not feel these two goals are mutually exclusive...

Also, if Griff shows no progress and the team continues to lose, I don't think anyone (fans or the front office) would be opposed to trying something else.

I think what is at issue is the time frame being discussed. What time frame is 'reasonable' is more the relevant question, IMO.

Cali... you are not that Naive. The time frame should have been from the moment Shanahan was fired. I forget who said it, but a big problem is that this season has been made more about RG3, than about the Redskins. Now if he comes out and performs and looks stellar and the team wins, great. Things will go smoothly. But we all know what a train wreck this team became i Gibbs last season when the defense was top ten and we were losing winnable games because the offense couldnt produce points. Last week was a very winnable game, despite a defensive blown play and a special teams blown play. But by this time Monday we will either be 1-1 and the hounds will be put off for another week, or 0-2 and things get really loud.