Bench vs starters

[MilkSpiller22]

Theres a very strong chance that Vareen won't be on your bench though..that's the point. I can get five other TEs that will give what Rudolph will..theres very few RB's at that point in the draft who could easily become an every week starter..even playing behind Ridley.

how would vereen not be on the bench in this situation?? remember that the whole purpose of the question is assuming that vereen is on the bench... Of course if you draft an injured player, who will miss the first couple of games that would be a different situation, but we have to assume that there is nothing wrong with the team that you drafted...

 

[TREFF]

Sorry..I never assume my bench guys will always be on my bench. Your initial question was drafting a bench player...well just because he fills a bench spot during draft day doesn't mean he's going to be there forever. I think that's where we're WAY off in this debate. For some reason you have it that draft day has your lineup set through wk 16 or something. Guys on my bench are only on my team because at some point I believe they'll be good enough to start..otherwise I'll let someone else draft them.

We can't just assume you third or 4th RB will only be needed on bye weeks, or will never be a starter..

We're obviously never gonna agree on this one, for the life of me I cannot see where you're coming from on this one. Sorry

 

[JDM]

Yeah, your fundamental mindset drafting a player should be what points can this person get me. If a player has no upside, he is not worth a roster spot.

 

[SmokingMonkey]

Vareen > Rudolph in every league and every format, unless you are in a TE only league, or a "you only get pts if you catch a pass from Christian Ponder" league, then I am drafting Rudolph first, Jennings 2nd, Patterson 3rd, and CHI CBs 4th and 5th

 

[wilwhite]

There is a calculation to be made though - how many games will I get out of this bench player?

If you're choosing between a bench player who will average 10 pts a week (versus 7 for a later bench player at the same position), or a starter who will average 8 pts a week (versus 6 for a later starter at the same position), who should you take?

(My answer below.)

 

[TREFF]

I sense a disturbance in Force...the Dark Lord WillWhite is about to use a Jedi mind trick on us.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Sorry..I never assume my bench guys will always be on my bench. Your initial question was drafting a bench player...well just because he fills a bench spot during draft day doesn't mean he's going to be there forever. I think that's where we're WAY off in this debate. For some reason you have it that draft day has your lineup set through wk 16 or something. Guys on my bench are only on my team because at some point I believe they'll be good enough to start..otherwise I'll let someone else draft them.

We can't just assume you third or 4th RB will only be needed on bye weeks, or will never be a starter..

We're obviously never gonna agree on this one, for the life of me I cannot see where you're coming from on this one. Sorry

I agree with your logic and mindset here... i am not saying that bench players dont have their value... Part of the real answer to this question is how large of a bench you can have... I understand that through injury and performance a bench player can always become a starter, but is that enough of a reason to sacrifice your starting team... We are not talking about players like lamar miller here, that can become stars, we are talking about platoon RBs who do not have the best upside... RBs who become the surprises become the number ones after injury and are generally always found on the waiver wire... we can never predict injury, and even if we can we can never predict which backup RBs will play the most games as the number one... So why overpay for the players you will drop to get the studs??

 

[JDM]

There is a calculation to be made though - how many games will I get out of this bench player?

If you're choosing between a bench player who will average 10 pts a week (versus 7 for a later bench player at the same position), or a starter who will average 8 pts a week (versus 6 for a later starter at the same position), who should you take?

(My answer below.)

I think it depends on the specific situation. If you also have some expectation that the ten pt a week player may break out and be closer to 15 a week for a stretch, I go the bench guy in a lot of cases. Position matters too.

 

[TREFF]

I agree with your logic and mindset here... i am not saying that bench players dont have their value... Part of the real answer to this question is how large of a bench you can have... I understand that through injury and performance a bench player can always become a starter, but is that enough of a reason to sacrifice your starting team... We are not talking about players like lamar miller here, that can become stars, we are talking about platoon RBs who do not have the best upside... RBs who become the surprises become the number ones after injury and are generally always found on the waiver wire... we can never predict injury, and even if we can we can never predict which backup RBs will play the most games as the number one... So why overpay for the players you will drop to get the studs??

You and I value guys like Vareen very differently than.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

You and I value guys like Vareen very differently than.

If i was able to start him(flex) i would rather have him than the 7th round TE... but i just dont think he has enough value as a backup... Because if vereen is the backup(in this scenario) that means you only start 2 RBs... the chances that if vereen becomes the starter for your team, you will constantly be searching to upgrade that starter...

 

[TREFF]

Simply disagree..you're working off the assumption that he's a backup. .maybe he is, maybe he isn't..maybe Ridley is out that week..maybe they play the worst rush D in tthe league that week while you #2 plays SF..maybe a dozen different scenarios where that #3 might be a better option on any given week than you #2.

Its about options, flexibility. And given that TE "X", that deep in the draft is virtually the same as TE's "A,Band C" than why not take the RB and grab the TE the next round and have both?? Taking the TE who is not markedly better than the next 3 TEs on the list, and missing out on the RB is just insane

 

[dblakejr7]

vareen is going to get a ot more looks then people think.. and if ridley goes down hes the man.. you could aslo hold vareen hostage for a trade if something happenes to ridley.. not that i want anything to happen to him as a pats fan..

 

[TKOSpikes]

I understand that through injury and performance a bench player can always become a starter, but is that enough of a reason to sacrifice your starting team... We are not talking about players like lamar miller here, that can become stars, we are talking about platoon RBs who do not have the best upside... RBs who become the surprises become the number ones after injury and are generally always found on the waiver wire... we can never predict injury, and even if we can we can never predict which backup RBs will play the most games as the number one... So why overpay for the players you will drop to get the studs??

Two things...

1. I'm sure I was on your end of this debate last year when talking about Alf Morris.

2. Rudolph is not a stud, and those arguing with you can't see any difference between him and 10 other TE's and that's the main point here.

Gimme Vereen too.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Two things...

1. I'm sure I was on your end of this debate last year when talking about Alf Morris.

2. Rudolph is not a stud, and those arguing with you can't see any difference between him and 10 other TE's and that's the main point here.

Gimme Vereen too.

Never said rudolph was a stud... i did incorrectly say in one post that he is near elite... But neither is vereen... in a 2 RB league, vereen has near no value. as a bench.. He is at best an emergency start... if he becomes your full time starter you are in bad shape(assuming nothing bad happens to ridley), since he plays the distant second fiddle in the NE RB platoon... the majority of the time the RBs that are the biggest surprises get a full time job after a major injury and generally is always a waiver wire pick up... Who was the last backup/platoon RB drafted as a backup to actually be something?? On Draft day it is impossible to predict injuries... Now, for this argument, the most important factor was never mentioned and that is how large of a bench you can have... I just dont think that vereen has more value than any 7th round TE who would complete your roster...

 

[TREFF]

Than I'm sorry..but we cant help ya! If you honestly think Vareen..or virtually any other RB normally take in the seventh..have nearly no value, no offense intended, but you need to rethink a few things, because they are incredibly valuable.

 

[averagejoe]

Here's the results from the Suicide draft. I'm using this since it is a REAL draft. (Don't necessarily trust mock drafts; or ADP.)

Looks like Ram filled all 7 starters first.
Treff (true to his word on this thread) grabbed a QB2, RB3 and WR4 and a D/ST before filling out his starters with a TE1.
Lefty drafted a RB3 and WR4 before taking his TE1.
Wil took a RB3, RB4, then drafted his TE1.
Duff filled all 7.
Monkey drafted a RB3, WR4 and a QB2 before taking a TE1.
Joe took RB3 before taking a TE1.
Fuzzy drafted a RB3 and WR4 before taking his TE1.
tlance (who saw Crabtree hurt during this draft) grabbed a RB3, RB4, WR4 and a D/ST before taking a TE1.
Sam drafted an RB3 before taking his TE1.
TKO took a TE1 and almost filled out his roster, but drafted a RB3 before securing his final WR3 spot.

So 2 of 12 owners filled out their roster first. 17%
Meaning 10 of 12 found value elsewhere. 83%

 

[Sam Sportboy]

Here's the results from the Suicide draft. I'm using this since it is a REAL draft. (Don't necessarily trust mock drafts; or ADP.)

Looks like Ram filled all 7 starters first.
Treff (true to his word on this thread) grabbed a QB2, RB3 and WR4 and a D/ST before filling out his starters with a TE1.
Lefty drafted a RB3 and WR4 before taking his TE1.
Wil took a RB3, RB4, then drafted his TE1.
Duff filled all 7.
Monkey drafted a RB3, WR4 and a QB2 before taking a TE1.
Joe took RB3 before taking a TE1.
Fuzzy drafted a RB3 and WR4 before taking his TE1.
tlance (who saw Crabtree hurt during this draft) grabbed a RB3, RB4, WR4 and a D/ST before taking a TE1.
Sam drafted an RB3 before taking his TE1.
TKO took a TE1 and almost filled out his roster, but drafted a RB3 before securing his final WR3 spot.

So 2 of 12 owners filled out their roster first. 17%
Meaning 10 of 12 found value elsewhere. 83%

Just to speak to my situation: Had it not been Vernon Davis I probably would have waited. Was actually thinking of pulling the trigger on DJax at that spot but reality hit me upside the head and there was no way I should pass on Davis in the 8th.

 

[Sam Sportboy]

Ok, so this isn't the Shane Vareen thread but here is a little tid bit of info and I'm sure we have all been reading this. FWIW Vareen could possibly maybe might end up a very good play. Where will all of Gronk/Killers touches go? Is Amendola the next Wes Welker? IMO Vareen could be a very sneaky guy to have on your team and I would rather have him on my bench than Rudolph in my starting line up. Hell, Gresham can be had a couple of rounds later and will probably score close to if not as much as Rudolph. Fred Davis might be another guy you could wait on too and stil get the same production. Just my 2 cents


According to SI's Peter King, Shane Vereen "is going to get a lot of touches from the look of things" at Patriots camp.
Analysis: King recently attended Pat camp, and echoes what Boston beat writers have been pushing about Vereen. His role is expanding, and he's a mismatch creator on a team whose offensive philosophy is to create mismatches. Vereen has been lining up at slot receiver, tailback, and outside receiver since May OTAs.

 

[JDM]

He just split out and caught a route down the field along the sideline in tight coverage.

 

[Sam Sportboy]

He just split out and caught a route down the field along the sideline in tight coverage.

Didn't see it..........bet he gets a lot of those short passes this year and dude can turn them into TD's