AL Central Smack Talk

[Fountain City Blues]

And I do not think Detroit has upgraded this year, sans the bullpen. I think they improved in certain aspects, like defensively and team speed, but they downgraded in the power department and their rotation won't be as strong without Fister (though they will still have the best rotation in the division anyways)

Certainly an interesting retooling of a team. Will be interesting to see how that performs come March 31 to October.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I understand the sentiment about the Royals/Lions, but such attitudes are subjective (the losing is not) and I am not too interested in discussing those even in my more masochistic moods. I will instead go with conventional wisdom of the aging curve favoring a team with its cornerstones being its youngest players with less than four seasons in the Majors.

Agree about Cleveland in terms of significance of their moves, I don't see their reasoning unless Lindor is Trout at SS, lol.

I think the White Sox certainly have a troubled roster, but I put allot of stock in Eaton and Abreu going forward along with other things such as Garcia having a full season; I think it is a net upgrade ( exactly how much is up to some debate). Addison Reed was below average, Eaton is a big upgrade of Reed long term and immediately, but I suppose that is me speculating a bit.

Yes, the Twins likely still have meh rotation, but meh is better than dog poo I suppose, so they get brownie points anyways; and quite frankly, the upgrade is pretty significant over what they had before in my humble opinion.

Detroit has retooled its team, many will debate the offense is worse, the same but different, or better depending on who you ask. I am not going to touch this too much as it is a bit difficult to say at this point. My immediate inclination would have me to believe it is roughly the same or a half step behind.
What I do believe is their rotation took a hit with Fister essentially being replaced by Smyly ( who departs from the pen only to be replaced by Joba).

Agree with pretty much everything you said. I completely forgot about the Joba signing, yet another move I HATED by Detroit, but it is, what it is. That being said -- Joba isn't going to take over for Smyly's role in the bullpen. Smyly had a couple roles this year -- he was an 8th inning man for a bit, he faced mostly lefties for a bit and he was long relief for a bit. The lefty role will go to Krol. The 8th inning role will go to Rondon. Long relief -- Not sure who will get that, but I'm guessing Duane Below, who had that role prior for Detroit. I'm guessing Joba will be used if a starter only goes 6 innings or maybe to face a couple right handers.

 

[da55bums]

Are you really this ignorant? You pick and choose a couple comments leaving out the fact "I HATED THE FISTER TRADE" and "I AM NOT COMPARING HIM TO MAX SCHERZER OR SAYING HE WILL BE AS GOOD AS MAX SCHERZER". You then surround your entire argument around these two points. Does that make sense to you?

Show me where I said he was going to be a Cy Young candidate? Show me where I said he was going to end up like Max Scherzer? ALL I SAID IS -- his SCOUTING REPORT reads the same as Max Scherzer's did when we traded for him in the Granderson deal and MAYBE the Tigers see something in his delivery they can fix.

You talk about Ray's walks in the minor and say he was 3.9 in 2013. Scherzer had a 3.7 walk rate per 9 in his minor league career. Ray's biggest issue according to the scouting reports is -- repeating his delivery. Scherzer's biggest issue when he came to the Tigers was -- repeating his delivery. Like Scherzer, when he struggles with arm position on his delivery, he loses MPH on his fastball. I will say ONCE AGAIN. NOWHERE did i say he was going to be Max Scherzer, NOWHERE did I say he was going to be even a solid pitcher in the MLB. The trade won't be viewed as a success or failure until Robbie Ray either pans out or flops.

And what is the 2nd bad trade the Tigers made in your eyes? Trading away Garcia and getting Iglesias in return? I'll take that all day long. How many times is a team able to get a MLB ready SS for a OF prospect? Especially a SS with the glove Iglesias has and he is only 23 years old? No one expects him to put up Peralta offensive numbers, but he will more than make up for his lack of offensive with his glove in the field.

In the end -- it doesn't matter, Detroit could trade away Anibal Sanchez too and still win the AL Central because the Central is a terrible division. Even without Fister -- Detroit still has the best starting rotation. Even without Fielder, Detroit has the best lineup. They have upgraded the bullpen and I have a feeling they will make another deal to bring in another arm for the bullpen before the season starts. When the division consists of Cleveland, Minnesota, KC and the White Sox -- you don't have to do too much to win the division right now.

Calling you a tool would mean that there was something in the box to begin with....I didn't say you compared him to Max, read forest read....I said using Max's name in the same paragraph was plain stupid, yep, still is...then you jumped to justify your use of Max's name..lol...your homer glasses are so fogged up that you just jumped to the defensive because you actually knew it was dumb to use Max's name and tried to defend it, even after saying it in the very next line, lol.

Garcia, a kid who showed he could hit MLB pitching at 22 for a defensive SS with no bat, the Tigers could have got a defensive SS with no bat for a bag of balls, they are on plenty of benches all over the league, maybe they should have gone ahead and thrown Fister in the deal since they were giving Fister and Garcia away...the funny part Peralta STILL had a better fielding percentage than Ozzie Smith Inglesis...lol...thats even funnier (for those who don't want to verify and Trust me won't post stats that don't prove his points...Inglesis fld pct .989...Peralta .991...lol...he couldn't even beat his defensive numbers so I agree with you lets don't even go on the offensive side.

I said getting rid of Fielder was a great move for financial reasons and a wash in the lineup that will still depend on Avilas, Dirks, Inglesis, Hunter and Vmart either way. Love how the Tigers couldn't even win the ERA title with their "staff" last year, eh, nice job Royals.

That creakin noise, is the Tigers window sliding down and down and the chirping of the Tigers fans is knowing that 0-3 the last 3 years of being competitive better change quickly or all the sqauking for the last 3 years of "greatness" will all be for not. Got 1 or 2 years left, then the house falls...

speaking of "Detroit has the best lineup"...for some reason professional writers have some interesting versions..(PS that is from a Detroit Free Press writer, lol). Tigers' division rivals: Royals' beefier lineup may mean tight AL Central race | Detroit Free Press | freep.com

But thank you for sharing your version..who would have thunk a Tigers fan thinking they have the best of everything. Especially Dougie SR.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Calling you a tool would mean that there was something in the box to begin with....I didn't say you compared him to Max, read forest read....I said using Max's name in the same paragraph was plain stupid, yep, still is...then you jumped to justify your use of Max's name..lol...your homer glasses are so fogged up that you just jumped to the defensive because you actually knew it was dumb to use Max's name and tried to defend it, even after saying it in the very next line, lol.

ONCE AGAIN -- nowhere did I say he would be just like Max Scherzer. You can try and twist it anyway you'd like. I said his scouting reports reads the same as Scherzer's did when he came to Detroit and MAYBE detroit sees something in his delivery they believe they can fix, which they did with Scherzer.

Garcia, a kid who showed he could hit MLB pitching at 22 for a defensive SS with no bat, the Tigers could have got a defensive SS with no bat for a bag of balls, they are on plenty of benches all over the league, maybe they should have gone ahead and thrown Fister in the deal since they were giving Fister and Garcia away...the funny part Peralta STILL had a better fielding percentage than Ozzie Smith Inglesis...lol...thats even funnier (for those who don't want to verify and Trust me won't post stats that don't prove his points...Inglesis fld pct .989...Peralta .991...lol...he couldn't even beat his defensive numbers so I agree with you lets don't even go on the offensive side.

With Garcia -- I didn't want to see him go, but Detroit didn't have a replacement for Peralta in the minors and while Garcia is a solid prospect, you don't get middle infielders for nothing in the MLB, so you have to give up something to get something. Saying Iglesias has no bat, while saying Garcia can hit MLB pitching is sort of humorous, as Iglesias had more ABs (350 to 244), hit for a better avg. (.303 to .283), had a better OBP (.349 to .309) and had a better OPS (.735 to .731) than Garcia.

As far as saying Iglesias isn't an upgrade defensively over Peralta because of fielding % is like saying Miguel Cabrera was better fielding 3rd basemen than Mike Moustakas, because Cabrera had a better fielding % than Moustakas. Or saying Alex Avila is Salvador Perez are a wash defensively at catcher, because Avila had the same fielding % as Perez. I had forgotten how absolutely ignorant you are, but I do enjoy making you foolish, so please continue.

Love how the Tigers couldn't even win the ERA title with their "staff" last year, eh, nice job Royals.

Hmmmm -- maybe I should talk slower or you use smaller words so you can understand. One -- nowhere did I say "staff", I said Detroit would still have the best STARTING ROTATION even without Fister. Do you know what starting rotation means? That doesn't include the bullpen, genius, which is where Detroit was terrible last year.

You so badly want to try and make a point -- you just make yourself look even more foolish, arguing points that NO ONE has even brought up. Thank you though -- I needed a good laugh and reading your trying to talk baseball always gives me a good laugh.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

That creakin noise, is the Tigers window sliding down and down and the chirping of the Tigers fans is knowing that 0-3 the last 3 years of being competitive better change quickly or all the sqauking for the last 3 years of "greatness" will all be for not. Got 1 or 2 years left, then the house falls...

One thing Detroit fans won't have to worry about -- Having our GM announce that finishing with a winning record is like winning the world series. I guess when your expectations are so low, finishing in 3rd place in the AL Central is a moral victory for the KC Franchise.

Keep shooting for the stars Dayton Moore!!!

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

speaking of "Detroit has the best lineup"...for some reason professional writers have some interesting versions..(PS that is from a Detroit Free Press writer, lol). Tigers' division rivals: Royals' beefier lineup may mean tight AL Central race | Detroit Free Press | freep.com

Yeah -- just like Greg Doyel on CBS -- the free press likes to put articles in the paper to get a reaction from fans, to drum up interest in the offseason. In the end though -- until the Royals do ANYTHING -- they are basically the MLB version of the Detroit Lions, where the fans continue to say, wait til next year, when our young studs have another year of experience.

 

[Nosferatu]

One thing Detroit fans won't have to worry about -- Having our GM announce that finishing with a winning record is like winning the world series. I guess when your expectations are so low, finishing in 3rd place in the AL Central is a moral victory for the KC Franchise.

Keep shooting for the stars Dayton Moore!!!

Kinda like Tigers fans are with making the playoffs.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Kinda like Tigers fans are with making the playoffs.

I must have missed where Dave Dombrowski told reporters that making the playoffs feels like winning the world series, as Dayton Moore told reporters about KC finally finishing with a winning record.

Feel free to pass along that quote from Dombrowski though -- I'd love to read it.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

That creakin noise, is the Tigers window sliding down and down and the chirping of the Tigers fans is knowing that 0-3 the last 3 years of being competitive better change quickly or all the sqauking for the last 3 years of "greatness" will all be for not. Got 1 or 2 years left, then the house falls...

Uhhh -- if Detroit is hearing 'creakin' noise' -- What have the Royals been hearing? They sit atop the MLB rankings for the longest streak of not even making the postseason with 28 straight years and counting. The next closest team (Toronto) would have to miss the playoffs until 2022 to match the Royals and the team in 3rd place for the longest streak (Seattle) would have to miss the playoffs until 2030 to match the Royals futility.

I guess I can see why Dayton Moore believes finishing with a winning record feels like winning a World Series, as the last time the Royals made the playoffs, Dayton Moore was 17 years old.

 

[Nosferatu]

I must have missed where Dave Dombrowski told reporters that making the playoffs feels like winning the world series, as Dayton Moore told reporters about KC finally finishing with a winning record.

Feel free to pass along that quote from Dombrowski though -- I'd love to read it.

Get back to me when you learn how to read...

 

[gvsulaker82]

So they traded a legit number two starter because ray might pan out? Thats ridiculous and world series contending teams do not do that. Why trade turner for sanchez then? Turner much better prospect than ray. Sanchez at that point in time had a career ERA around 4. The trade makes little sense for financial reasons as well. They just shaved off 80 mil or so in the fielder deal and they didnt have enough to sign a closer even though they were not retaining benoit or veras? The trade will never make sense and for the folks that dont get that, I cant help you. Its as simple as this, winning teams dont trade away top starters for average prospects to save a few bucks.

 

[gvsulaker82]

Got to love the maturity level around here. You got one Tiger fan who gets off by reporting people - even makes threads about it. Then we have Mr. Maturity here with one of the lamest comments I have seen in a long, long time. Throw in Mr. Negativity (cleaves), and you have a solid core of Tiger fans to draw from here.

But burf...you go ahead and slap the monkey....you sure got me with that remark. geez

Theres a common denominator here that everyone else gets but you. If you just talked tigers baseball without ridiculing others opinions and trolling people who disagree with you there wouldnt be an issue. I dont know of one tigers fan that has a problem with muzzer, burf, cleaves, etc etc but you. But I do know of plenty that have issue with you. You clearly cant resist being a jerk to other posters and the numerous nasty remarks about the lions who you are not even a fan of dont help much. I have disagreed with every tigers and lions fan in the forum but that doesnt drive me to belittle and troll them at every opportunity. Just be normal man.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Get back to me when you learn how to read...

Seeing as how I was talking about the teams respective GM's, not sure where the fans thoughts fall in all of this?

Also -- outside of Doug, no Tigers fan celebrates getting to the playoffs, as if it is the World Series. Getting to the playoffs doesn't mean anything, especially when you play in the AL Central. Two of the last 3 years -- Detroit only made it to the playoffs because they get to play AL Central teams for almost half their games.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Its as simple as this, winning teams dont trade away top starters for average prospects to save a few bucks.

I've said all along that I hated the Fister trade. All I have done is regurgitate what Dombrowski stated in his press conference after the trade was made and added in my thoughts after they talked about his issues repeating his delivery, and compared it to the same issue Scherzer had before he came to Detroit, as the scouting report regarding his delivery and control was almost verbatim.

Obviously Dombrowski and the Tigers scout saw something in Robbie Ray to be willing to trade away Fister in a package where Ray was the supposed "centerpiece" of the deal. I don't see it, but I'm not a MLB scout and don't run a MLB franchise. All I have said from the get go is -- while I hate the trade, as Fister was one of my favorite pitchers on the Tigers, I'm willing to give Dombrowski the benefit of the doubt, as he has done wonders making trades for Detroit.

 

[Nosferatu]

Seeing as how I was talking about the teams respective GM's, not sure where the fans thoughts fall in all of this?

Also -- outside of Doug, no Tigers fan celebrates getting to the playoffs, as if it is the World Series. Getting to the playoffs doesn't mean anything, especially when you play in the AL Central. Two of the last 3 years -- Detroit only made it to the playoffs because they get to play AL Central teams for almost half their games.

You said something about the Royals GM acting like they won the Series because they finished .500 I simply stated yeah kinda like Tigers fans feel about making the playoffs. Let me know if you still don't understand.

TrustMeUareWrong if you think Tigers fans weren't celebrating making the playoffs like they were Series Champions, maybe not as much this year but the last couple years they were, there were pages full of it.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

You said something about the Royals GM acting like they won the Series because they finished .500 I simply stated yeah kinda like Tigers fans feel about making the playoffs. Let me know if you still don't understand.

TrustMeUareWrong if you think Tigers fans weren't celebrating making the playoffs like they were Series Champions, maybe not as much this year but the last couple years they were, there were pages full of it.

Actually Dayton Moore didn't "act like they won the World Series because they finished .500" -- He actually made the statement how, "in a small way, i feel like we won the world series" after being asked to described the 2013 season. Let me know if you still don't understand what I was saying, as you obviously didn't from the remarks you made back to me. Here is the story so you can catch up.

Royals GM Dayton Moore: 'I feel like we've won the World Series' - CBSSports.com

And what is there to celebrate? The Tigers didn't reach their end goal of winning a world series. Making the playoffs in the AL Central isn't an accomplishment, so what would people be celebrating? Over the last 3 years -- they have polled 60 sportswriters before the season and 180 of 180 have picked the Tigers to win the AL Central. All they did was do what they were supposed to and win the Central. They have failed in the playoffs.

 

[Nosferatu]

Actually Dayton Moore didn't "act like they won the World Series because they finished .500" -- He actually made the statement how, "in a small way, i feel like we won the world series" after being asked to described the 2013 season. Let me know if you still don't understand what I was saying, as you obviously didn't from the remarks you made back to me. Here is the story so you can catch up.

Royals GM Dayton Moore: 'I feel like we've won the World Series' - CBSSports.com



Good lord, seriously?

 

[jdwills126]

I don't like the Fister trade but if Dave D and the scouting department did their homework they found a stud and if thats the way it plays out then it turns into a great trade. I know what the publications say but those same talking heads had Hochevar as the next Gooden.

I see Iffy got himself banned from the Tigers boards. Burf and Muzzer holding the CBS grudges still, lol!

 

[Ronnie]

Yeah....the maturity level on that board is awesome! LOL. Muzz will be bragging about getting me banned....it really is all he has to offer. Now you guys watch....my name will be mentioned again and again on the Tiger board. Even when gone, I still will be the straw that stirs the drink.


As for Fister trade (again). When something occurs that is not readily understandable....I don't automatically assume stupidity played a factor - especially when the people(s) involved have not shown a strong propensity towards 'stupidity' in the past. DD needed to convert some assets into cash. He selected Fister. It ''appears'' he did not get equality in the transfer. Since I am not privilege to the details, I assume that there was more to the trade than meets the eye. When I see people say that "at least he should have gotten Clippard or [fill in the blank], I have to think DD was/is not dumb enough NOT to ask for good players in ANY deal he makes. Who knows what this deal will amount too....but I think DD got the best terms he could....at least at that time. Of course, those amateur GMs that say, "I don't care about the money." - will continue to whine and moan no matter how it turns out.

 

[burfboy]

the former tiger poster known as Iffy, Iffster, Iffster 2, Bereal and Ronnie.....keep the bullshit coming.....