I watched a Youtube video yesterday: How come the "longevity" argument ONLY works for LeBron?.

[MAGA2024]

Pete Rose is the all-time leader in Hits, AB's, Times On Base, #2 in Doubles, #4 in Runs Scored... he's also got MVP's, WS Championships, Gold Gloves, Batting titles, etc... yet no one considers him anywhere close to being the GOAT of baseball. Hank Aaron anyone? #1 all-time in RBI, Total Bases, x-base hits, #2 in HR, #3 in Hits, multiple Batting titles, HR titles, MVP's, Gold Gloves, a Championship, etc... yet no one considers him even the best player of his era, let alone the GOAT.

How about Hockey? Ovechkin has the most Goals in NHL history but no one believes he's the GOAT over Gretzky. Football? Emmitt Smith is the all-time leader in Rushing Yards, yet no once considers him the GOAT Running Back (over Payton, Brown or Sanders).

Hell, back to the NBA: By the end of the 90's (when Jabbar was the Career Points Scored leader AND the owner of more Championships and just as many total MVP's as LeBron) pretty much 999 out of 1,00 people considered Jordan the GOAT, not Kareem.

So why does the "longevity argument" ONLY matter when it comes to LeBron?

 

[tlance]

Pete Rose is the all-time leader in Hits, AB's, Times On Base, #2 in Doubles, #4 in Runs Scored... he's also got MVP's, WS Championships, Gold Gloves, Batting titles, etc... yet no one considers him anywhere close to being the GOAT of baseball. Hank Aaron anyone? #1 all-time in RBI, Total Bases, x-base hits, #2 in HR, #3 in Hits, multiple Batting titles, HR titles, MVP's, Gold Gloves, a Championship, etc... yet no one considers him even the best player of his era, let alone the GOAT.

How about Hockey? Ovechkin has the most Goals in NHL history but no one believes he's the GOAT over Gretzky. Football? Emmitt Smith is the all-time leader in Rushing Yards, yet no once considers him the GOAT Running Back (over Payton, Brown or Sanders).

Hell, back to the NBA: By the end of the 90's (when Jabbar was the Career Points Scored leader AND the owner of more Championships and just as many total MVP's as LeBron) pretty much 999 out of 1,00 people considered Jordan the GOAT, not Kareem.

So why does the "longevity argument" ONLY matter when it comes to LeBron?

Easy.

None of those players in other sports dominated their eras the way LeBron did.

LeBron was hands down the best player in the league for over a decade.

That is why he is in the GOAT discussion. He has more than just “longevity”. His peak is GOAT level also.

 

[MHSL82]

Easy.

None of those players in other sports dominated their eras the way LeBron did.

LeBron was hands down the best player in the league for over a decade.

That is why he is in the GOAT discussion. He has more than just “longevity”. His peak is GOAT level also.

I’m not a huge LeBron fan or hater, but what bugs me is when people point out that he has lost in the finals many times and how Tom Brady has lost in the Super Bowl multiple times as if that makes them worse.

If we’re going by championships, LeBron already has fewer championships than Jordan so that doesn’t matter I guess. But I think you’d have to look at the whole career to actually compare. If LeBron had the same number of championships as Jordan did, but also lost in four more or something, and people were using an argument against him, that’s stupid. Because for all the years that Jordan did not lose in the finals, he lost in the conference finals.

I do feel it applies as a critique more against LeBron than it would against Brady because in football, it’s one game. Losing a seven game series is more of a statement of a loss I guess. You have more chances of fixing anything that was wrong.

 

[MAGA2024]

Easy.

None of those players in other sports dominated their eras the way LeBron did.

LeBron was hands down the best player in the league for over a decade.

That is why he is in the GOAT discussion. He has more than just “longevity”. His peak is GOAT level also.

4-6 in the Finals is not domination. No MVP's after age 28 is not domination, no All Defense selections after age 29 is not domination. 38% shooting from beyond 3-feet from the basket is not domination. Only one (1) Scoring title and one (1) Assists title in 22 years is not domination.

Define "dominated".

 

[tlance]

I’m not a huge LeBron fan or hater, but what bugs me is when people point out that he has lost in the finals many times and how Tom Brady has lost in the Super Bowl multiple times as if that makes them worse.

If we’re going by championships, LeBron already has fewer championships than Jordan so that doesn’t matter I guess. But I think you’d have to look at the whole career to actually compare. If LeBron had the same number of championships as Jordan did, but also lost in four more or something, and people were using an argument against him, that’s stupid. Because for all the years that Jordan did not lose in the finals, he lost in the conference finals.

I do feel it applies as a critique more against LeBron than it would against Brady because in football, it’s one game. Losing a seven game series is more of a statement of a loss I guess. You have more chances of fixing anything that was wrong.

For sure.

Championships are obviously an important part of these debates, but they are just part.

Nobody, no matter how great can win a championship by themselves in a team sport.

 

[tlance]

4-6 in the Finals is not domination. No MVP's after age 28 is not domination, no All Defense selections after age 29 is not domination. 38% shooting from beyond 3-feet from the basket is not domination. Only one (1) Scoring title and one (1) Assists title in 22 years is not domination.

Define "dominated".

I did.

He was obviously the best player in the league from about 2007 until like 2018.

Best player doesn’t always win MVP. Otherwise Jordan would have more than he got also.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Pete Rose is the all-time leader in Hits, AB's, Times On Base, #2 in Doubles, #4 in Runs Scored... he's also got MVP's, WS Championships, Gold Gloves, Batting titles, etc... yet no one considers him anywhere close to being the GOAT of baseball. Hank Aaron anyone? #1 all-time in RBI, Total Bases, x-base hits, #2 in HR, #3 in Hits, multiple Batting titles, HR titles, MVP's, Gold Gloves, a Championship, etc... yet no one considers him even the best player of his era, let alone the GOAT.

How about Hockey? Ovechkin has the most Goals in NHL history but no one believes he's the GOAT over Gretzky. Football? Emmitt Smith is the all-time leader in Rushing Yards, yet no once considers him the GOAT Running Back (over Payton, Brown or Sanders).

Hell, back to the NBA: By the end of the 90's (when Jabbar was the Career Points Scored leader AND the owner of more Championships and just as many total MVP's as LeBron) pretty much 999 out of 1,00 people considered Jordan the GOAT, not Kareem.

So why does the "longevity argument" ONLY matter when it comes to LeBron?

Pete Rose was never in the GOAT conversation or anywhere close to it for baseball.

do you think Ovechkin was better than The Great One? Cmon man. That is just common sense.

KAJ is a too 3-4 player all-time hands down so it definitely played a part in his greatness and always has but even as great as Kareem was he didn’t dominate like Lebron did. What hurts KAJ to a standpoint is he played with another top 5ish player of all-time.

No one comes close in any sport, as far as longevity, except Brady. Brady and Lebron are one in million type of players and neither will be duplicated. Dominating at their sports for so long.

None of your examples are good examples. Lebron was cemented into the GOAT convo after the Miami run and the LA title only strengthened the argument.

 

[Shanemansj13]

4-6 in the Finals is not domination. No MVP's after age 28 is not domination, no All Defense selections after age 29 is not domination. 38% shooting from beyond 3-feet from the basket is not domination. Only one (1) Scoring title and one (1) Assists title in 22 years is not domination.

Define "dominated".

38% from 3 is way above average, weird example.
The fact people say “4-6” but yet to mention he carried his team to the finals in more than half of those instances. Go look at the Cavs 2007 roster and they played a team that had 4 HOFr’s lol. He did the same when they played the KD warriors after Kyrie left. Literally carried his team. MJ was lucky enough to lose before the Finals…get dominated by the C’s and bad boy Pistons. If not for those teams getting old…MJ would not be MJ.

Lebron averaged 25, 7 and 7 every year except for his rookie year. Think about that for one second.

It’s crazy people want to hate instead of appreciating. We won’t ever see a player like this in the league. Never! Period. He literally took his team to the Finals 9 out of 10 years. It is insane.

 

[MHSL82]

38% from 3 is way above average, weird example.

I think he meant 38% shooting from beyond 3 feet, not three point shooting. Not saying he is right about the rest, but I think that’s what he meant. And I don’t know if that’s accurate.