msgkings322
I'm just here to troll everyone
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We could do this with all three of the aforementioned starters. Hicks and Verlander have also shown off some excellent stuff, even in the games where they’ve been hit around. Hicks was especially impressive Thursday after giving up five runs in the first inning. Another thing that stood out about the outing, though, is that he gave up five runs in the first inning.
Apropos of everything, let’s check out some other ERAs in the organization:
• Hayden Birdsong — 1.80 (MLB)
• Carson Seymour — 1.00 (Triple A)
• Carson Whisenhunt — 3.86 (Triple A)
• Mason Black — 3.00 (Triple A)
Hmm. It would appear that some of the Giants’ depth is thriving in different roles and locations. Also, it’s not 1988 and we’re not animals here, so let’s stop pretending that ERA is the only stat we need. Seymour has struck out 29.7 percent of the 74 batters he’s faced with Triple-A Sacramento, walking just five. Whisenhunt has 14 strikeouts and one walk in 14 innings. Black struck out 10 of the 19 batters he faced on Thursday night.
And you’re either screaming that I’m forgetting about Kyle Harrison, or you’re only now realizing you hadn’t thought about him yet. He was the presumptive fifth starter as of a few weeks ago, after all. While his 5.73 ERA for Sacramento isn’t sparkly, the reports of his velocity and stuff are encouraging. So is his nifty 16:4 K:BB ratio in 11 innings.
That’s five pitchers who aren’t in a major-league rotation, but probably could be. This is still omitting Keaton Winn (injury) and Carson Ragsdale (slow start). They might help this year, too.
If you’re wondering where this is all leading, let’s be very clear: It would take a silly, silly fool to give up on any of the three veterans right now. If you think any one of Ray, Verlander or Hicks is — or should be — on thin ice, you’ll need to put some money on Wilmer Flores getting MVP votes at the end of the year, because you clearly believe the first two weeks of April contain all the baseball information you’ll ever need. They take $100 out of my paycheck every time I write “it’s early” in an April article, but guess what? It’s early. So impossibly early. And all three veterans have already shown enough flashes this season to stick with them for a long time. This isn’t like when the Giants brought Russ Ortiz back to be the fifth starter in 2007, which blocked Tim Lincecum.
It’s all just a way to show off what a mess this has the potential to be. A happy, delightful mess. A confusing, enviable mess, and it’s impossible not to wonder just how the Giants will sort this out. Let’s say Whisenhunt makes another five starts, and they’re all excellent. Or Harrison’s ERA comes down and matches his peripherals over the next month. Or Birdsong continues to impress out of the bullpen, but it gets harder and harder to find him regular work. Or all of the above, plus another one, two or three of the other pitchers making their case.
Or just one of the above. Just one. That’s all it will take to get confusing.
It’s not just the veterans who deserve scrutiny, either. It’s everyone who isn’t Logan Webb, which means Landen Roupp will get evaluated in this strange context. His ERA is 4.80, but his FIP is 2.61, and his curveball looks like one of the best in the game. What happens if his ERA jumps to 5.80, but his FIP stays the same over the next month? What if they’re both closer to 4.00? What if he’s perfectly fine as the fifth starter, and nothing more, while others are dominating in lesser roles?
Buddy, I’m just throwing out questions because I lack the answers. And the questions extend beyond this season. Even assuming that attrition will separate some or most of these young pitchers, because that’s just how baseball works, there will be similar decisions to make this offseason. The Giants will have to figure out who to commit to, who they want to take for a test drive, who they’ll want in reserve, et cetera, before they look at free agents.
These are questions for the semi-near future, though. In the meantime, treat Ray, Verlander and Hicks as if they’re supremely talented veterans who’ve earned more than a little benefit of the doubt, which is exactly what they are, even if they all come with concerns. They get another month or two or three if they continue to have flashes of brilliance, even if there are messy innings around them. It’ll get noisy, but that’s the only reasonable path for a team trying to reach the postseason. The upside is with the youngsters in future seasons, but it’s with the veterans this season. They still have plenty of it.
With that out of the way, it’s time for some perspective. Check out this quote from Orioles GM Mike Elias from a couple of days ago:
That’s also a mess, but a very different kind. The Giants will have some decisions to make, but if this is a problem, it’s one that other teams would spend a lot of money to have. Some of them have spent a lot of money in the hopes of having the same problem. It didn’t work.
The decisions the Giants make or don’t make will be litigated in real time and for a long time after, especially if they’re the difference between making or missing the postseason. For now, just furrow your brow, and wait for it to sort itself out. It’s a good problem to have, but that doesn’t mean it’s not a confusing one.
(Top photo of Birdsong in a relief appearance: John Hefti / Imagn Images)
Apropos of everything, let’s check out some other ERAs in the organization:
• Hayden Birdsong — 1.80 (MLB)
• Carson Seymour — 1.00 (Triple A)
• Carson Whisenhunt — 3.86 (Triple A)
• Mason Black — 3.00 (Triple A)
Hmm. It would appear that some of the Giants’ depth is thriving in different roles and locations. Also, it’s not 1988 and we’re not animals here, so let’s stop pretending that ERA is the only stat we need. Seymour has struck out 29.7 percent of the 74 batters he’s faced with Triple-A Sacramento, walking just five. Whisenhunt has 14 strikeouts and one walk in 14 innings. Black struck out 10 of the 19 batters he faced on Thursday night.
And you’re either screaming that I’m forgetting about Kyle Harrison, or you’re only now realizing you hadn’t thought about him yet. He was the presumptive fifth starter as of a few weeks ago, after all. While his 5.73 ERA for Sacramento isn’t sparkly, the reports of his velocity and stuff are encouraging. So is his nifty 16:4 K:BB ratio in 11 innings.
That’s five pitchers who aren’t in a major-league rotation, but probably could be. This is still omitting Keaton Winn (injury) and Carson Ragsdale (slow start). They might help this year, too.
If you’re wondering where this is all leading, let’s be very clear: It would take a silly, silly fool to give up on any of the three veterans right now. If you think any one of Ray, Verlander or Hicks is — or should be — on thin ice, you’ll need to put some money on Wilmer Flores getting MVP votes at the end of the year, because you clearly believe the first two weeks of April contain all the baseball information you’ll ever need. They take $100 out of my paycheck every time I write “it’s early” in an April article, but guess what? It’s early. So impossibly early. And all three veterans have already shown enough flashes this season to stick with them for a long time. This isn’t like when the Giants brought Russ Ortiz back to be the fifth starter in 2007, which blocked Tim Lincecum.
It’s all just a way to show off what a mess this has the potential to be. A happy, delightful mess. A confusing, enviable mess, and it’s impossible not to wonder just how the Giants will sort this out. Let’s say Whisenhunt makes another five starts, and they’re all excellent. Or Harrison’s ERA comes down and matches his peripherals over the next month. Or Birdsong continues to impress out of the bullpen, but it gets harder and harder to find him regular work. Or all of the above, plus another one, two or three of the other pitchers making their case.
Or just one of the above. Just one. That’s all it will take to get confusing.
It’s not just the veterans who deserve scrutiny, either. It’s everyone who isn’t Logan Webb, which means Landen Roupp will get evaluated in this strange context. His ERA is 4.80, but his FIP is 2.61, and his curveball looks like one of the best in the game. What happens if his ERA jumps to 5.80, but his FIP stays the same over the next month? What if they’re both closer to 4.00? What if he’s perfectly fine as the fifth starter, and nothing more, while others are dominating in lesser roles?
Buddy, I’m just throwing out questions because I lack the answers. And the questions extend beyond this season. Even assuming that attrition will separate some or most of these young pitchers, because that’s just how baseball works, there will be similar decisions to make this offseason. The Giants will have to figure out who to commit to, who they want to take for a test drive, who they’ll want in reserve, et cetera, before they look at free agents.
These are questions for the semi-near future, though. In the meantime, treat Ray, Verlander and Hicks as if they’re supremely talented veterans who’ve earned more than a little benefit of the doubt, which is exactly what they are, even if they all come with concerns. They get another month or two or three if they continue to have flashes of brilliance, even if there are messy innings around them. It’ll get noisy, but that’s the only reasonable path for a team trying to reach the postseason. The upside is with the youngsters in future seasons, but it’s with the veterans this season. They still have plenty of it.
With that out of the way, it’s time for some perspective. Check out this quote from Orioles GM Mike Elias from a couple of days ago:
That’s also a mess, but a very different kind. The Giants will have some decisions to make, but if this is a problem, it’s one that other teams would spend a lot of money to have. Some of them have spent a lot of money in the hopes of having the same problem. It didn’t work.
The decisions the Giants make or don’t make will be litigated in real time and for a long time after, especially if they’re the difference between making or missing the postseason. For now, just furrow your brow, and wait for it to sort itself out. It’s a good problem to have, but that doesn’t mean it’s not a confusing one.
(Top photo of Birdsong in a relief appearance: John Hefti / Imagn Images)
