Is baseball broken?

[msgkings322]

Obviously this has been discussed in multiple threads, just wanted to have a dedicated thread

I think there's arguments both ways

Pro: the Dodgers (and Mets and a few others) have obviously ramped up this discussion lately. There have always been big spenders and small market cheap teams but there have been periods where it was more glaring and this is one of those. Yes occasionally a small spender will sneak into the playoffs and even more rarely they win a title. But let's face it unless you are a fan of the 5-6 teams that get all the free agents you're probably pretty disgusted by the situation. Deferred contracts at least should not be allowed, they just add fuel to the fire.

Con: while TV ratings are declining (some of that is people moving from using TV to watch to the internet), or at least far behind football and basketball, overall revenues keep growing, TV contracts keep growing, salaries keep growing, franchise values keep growing. Until that all stops it's hard to argue the sport is "broken" and the owners and players have very little incentive to change it. Players are not fans, they don't care about competitive balance.

 

[Janus]

I'm in favor of a salary cap, should stop all this spending and distribute wealth evenly

 

[Fountain City Blues]

I am not sure it is broken, but the Dodgers seemingly flaunting basic competition, real or perceived, is rubbing people the wrong way. Magic circle problem.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

There are certainly some broken aspects.

The rookie draft should be for every single player who has not played American professional baseball

And there needs to be a more direct path from draft to majors. Way too much minor leagues.

Really minor leagues is the problem baseball needs to fix.

 

[saturdaysarebetter]

There needs to be a salary floor. Make those cheapskate owners like Nutting in Pittsburgh spend a minimum amount so that they're somewhat competitive. There ought to be a clause in owning sports franchises that you have to finish in the top three of your division or at least over .500 at least once every seven years or you lose ownership rights to the club. That's why they keep track of wins and losses. You're in the game to win and you'll make money regardless.

 

[calsnowskier]

I hate Salary Caps. At least simple caps. They punish teams for putting together strong teams by forcing those teams to be broken up.

While I 100% acknowledge a plan like this will never be implemented, I have long supported a plan essentially like this…

Whatever the league min salary is, that amount is removed from the team salary calc for each player. For example, if league min is 500k, and Player X makes 1M, only 500k of his salary counts towards the cap.

Players who made their MLB debut with their current club have their entire salary exempt from the cap.

Players acquired via trade have 100% of their salary count (minus the league min) for their first season with the team. Season 2, 75%, season 3 50%, season 4 25%, every season thereafter, only 10%. Players acquired via waiver claim count in this tier.

Players acquired vis FA start at 10% and drop 15% per season until they get to the 10% level.

Players who signed minor league deals and played half a season in the minors before being added to the 40-man roster can be treated as if they were acquired via trade. This clause will need some tweaking.

 

[calsnowskier]

And I don’t really get why people see deferred salaries as a major problem, Anyone can do them, not just the dogs and mutts. And the salary tax hit goes towards the accrued season, not the paid season, and the amount is converted to a “current dollar” rate, with an assumed annual interest rate applied tothe deferred amount (think Bobby Bonilla, but not as drastic). Shohei got 70M for2024 (whatever it was, not really important), but he doesn’t get the vast bulk of that money until 2035 or 2040 (whenever). His tax hit to the dogs is whatever principle is required to end up with a 65M payment at the maturity date of the deferment (iirc, he took a “small” 5M payment this year). I know Bobby Bonilla’s interest rate on his payments was 8%. I think Shohei was something similar, so I think his actual tax hit to the dogs was something like 30M in ‘24, not the widely reported 70M.

 

[PolarVortex]

I'm in favor of a salary cap, should stop all this spending and distribute wealth evenly

They have a salary cap and a salary floor. They just don't call them by those names. But, they work basically the same way. Everyone knows who the salary cap violators are. The salary floor violators may soon be the Florida Marlins if they do not use the revenue sharing they were awarded from the 2024 season, to add veteran players to their 2025 team.

 

[trojanfan12]

There needs to be a salary floor. Make those cheapskate owners like Nutting in Pittsburgh spend a minimum amount so that they're somewhat competitive. There ought to be a clause in owning sports franchises that you have to finish in the top three of your division or at least over .500 at least once every seven years or you lose ownership rights to the club. That's why they keep track of wins and losses. You're in the game to win and you'll make money regardless.

Exactly. There definitely needs to be a floor much moreso than a cap.

It's not the fault of the Dodgers, Mets, Padres or any other team that is willing to spend to get what they need to win that some owners don't want to do that.

I don't know if it's 100% true, but I heard that the Cubs, for example, made $500 million in profit, but their payroll was only $165 million. I don't see that as a problem with baseball or the teams that are willing to spend to win titles. I see that as a problem with some owners.

These owners are all billionaires. If they don't want to spend...they need to sell the team.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Exactly. There definitely needs to be a floor much moreso that a cap.

It's not the fault of the Dodgers, Mets, Padres or any other team that is willing to spend to get what they need to win that some owners don't want to do that.

I don't know if it's 100% true, but I heard that the Cubs, for example, made $500 million in profit, but their payroll was only $165 million. I don't see that as a problem with baseball or the teams that are willing to spend to win titles. I see that as a problem with some owners.

These owners are all billionaires. If they don't want to spend...they need to sell the team.

again, even a floor, means nothing if they dont fix the minor league problem... and create a better path from draft to majors..

the excuse that players need to get seasoning, it is just an excuse... let players struggle in the majors... just like in every other sport...

 

[trojanfan12]

again, even a floor, means nothing if they dont fix the minor league problem... and create a better path from draft to majors..

the excuse that players need to get seasoning, it is just an excuse... let players struggle in the majors... just like in every other sport...

I don't see the problem with the minor leagues. In fact, imo, they actually lead to a better product in the big leagues because a lot of the guys who aren't big league quality get sorted out.

Teams need to do a better job of building their farm system. The Dodgers have built up their farm system to the point that they have quality guys who make it to the major league team and it also gives them trade pieces because other teams covet their prospects.

Also, guys do struggle even when they come up through the minors because even from AAA to the majors...it's still a huge jump. There have been plenty of guys who came up through the minors who were never able to adjust or who struggled for a couple of years before finally figuring it out.

Heck, one of the Dodgers most highly rated prospects (Gavin Lux) had to be sent back down twice (I believe) because of how he was struggling. He finally started looking like he might be a real big leaguer this past season.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I don't see the problem with the minor leagues. In fact, imo, they actually lead to a better product in the big leagues because a lot of the guys who aren't big league quality get sorted out.

Teams need to do a better job of building their farm system. The Dodgers have built up their farm system to the point that they have quality guys who make it to the major league team and it also gives them trade pieces because other teams covet their prospects.

Also, guys do struggle even when they come up through the minors because even from AAA to the majors...it's still a huge jump. There have been plenty of guys who came up through the minors who were never able to adjust or who struggled for a couple of years before finally figuring it out.

Heck, one of the Dodgers most highly rated prospects (Gavin Lux) had to be sent back down twice (I believe) because of how he was struggling. He finally started looking like he might be a real big leaguer this past season.

im not saying players dont struggle... what i am saying is the path from draft to the majors is just not clear... which also kills the MLB draft... and why nobody cares about it...

look at football, Basketball, and Hockey... the draft actually has meaning... and is an actual event...

baseball cant make it an event, because EVERYONE is just shipped to the minors, for a chance to make it to the majors...

i am not saying minor leagues should be abolished... just minimalizing it...

Make teams invest more into the draft...

there is just so much in it where some teams still wont bring up their better prospects... that shouldnt be a thing... they have improved the rules, to prevent this some... but there is so much more needed...

and yes, by creating a better path from draft to the majors, i do think that will also help small market teams more...

 

[calsnowskier]

The fact that the Padres are mentioned PROVES that no team (almost no team) can claim poverty. If a team WANTS to spend, they can.

I would say that ONLY the Spanks and doggies has any kind of inherent advantage over the rest of the league. All other clubs compete on essentially a fair playing field. Some chose to try, some chose to collect.

 

[Cedrique]

The fact that the Padres are mentioned PROVES that no team (almost no team) can claim poverty. If a team WANTS to spend, they can.

I would say that ONLY the Spanks and doggies has any kind of inherent advantage over the rest of the league. All other clubs compete on essentially a fair playing field. Some chose to try, some chose to collect.

yeah, no one cares about this. Put up poll #10

 

[trojanfan12]

The fact that the Padres are mentioned PROVES that no team (almost no team) can claim poverty. If a team WANTS to spend, they can.

I would say that ONLY the Spanks and doggies has any kind of inherent advantage over the rest of the league. All other clubs compete on essentially a fair playing field. Some chose to try, some chose to collect.

Yep and there have been examples of teams who will spend like drunken sailors for 3-4 years, get a World Series or 2 and then have a fire sale to dump a bunch of salary.

Bottom line, there are plenty of ways to be competitive, even if only for short windows, it's just a matter of a team figuring out what works best for them.

 

[trojanfan12]

im not saying players dont struggle... what i am saying is the path from draft to the majors is just not clear... which also kills the MLB draft... and why nobody cares about it...

look at football, Basketball, and Hockey... the draft actually has meaning... and is an actual event...

baseball cant make it an event, because EVERYONE is just shipped to the minors, for a chance to make it to the majors...

i am not saying minor leagues should be abolished... just minimalizing it...

Make teams invest more into the draft...

there is just so much in it where some teams still wont bring up their better prospects... that shouldnt be a thing... they have improved the rules, to prevent this some... but there is so much more needed...

and yes, by creating a better path from draft to the majors, i do think that will also help small market teams more...

I don't think the MLB draft needs to be a thing. People keep talking about baseball "losing ground", yet the teams keep getting more valuable, they keep making money and the players are some of, if not the best paid in all professional sports.

Usually when a team won't bring up a top prospect it's because they already have a better player at that position. That's when smart teams will trade those players to get someone to fill another need.

Also, there is no "set path" for players to get from the minors to the majors. There's no rule that says a player has to play A ball, then AA ball, then AAA before they can move up to the majors. Often times, the better prospects will start in AA or AAA...if they handle it, their path to the majors becomes much quicker. Also, some guys progress through the minors faster than others. Gavin Lux, for example was drafted in 2016...spent short amounts of time at each level and started getting called up to the Dodgers in 2019.

 

[Shanemansj13]

The fact that the Padres are mentioned PROVES that no team (almost no team) can claim poverty. If a team WANTS to spend, they can.

I would say that ONLY the Spanks and doggies has any kind of inherent advantage over the rest of the league. All other clubs compete on essentially a fair playing field. Some chose to try, some chose to collect.

Huge difference in spending $100M and $350M. A floor helps a bit, teams can’t spend nothing but they will still do there best to spend the absolute minimum. You put in some kind of ceiling, luxury and hard cap. It will force the HUGE spenders to limit their spending bc of hard tax considerations but it will entice the “poverty” teams to spend more bc they have some sort of chance to compete

 

[Pastafazul]

Too analytical

No longer the an American Sport

To fake

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I don't think the MLB draft needs to be a thing. People keep talking about baseball "losing ground", yet the teams keep getting more valuable, they keep making money and the players are some of, if not the best paid in all professional sports.

Usually when a team won't bring up a top prospect it's because they already have a better player at that position. That's when smart teams will trade those players to get someone to fill another need.

Also, there is no "set path" for players to get from the minors to the majors. There's no rule that says a player has to play A ball, then AA ball, then AAA before they can move up to the majors. Often times, the better prospects will start in AA or AAA...if they handle it, their path to the majors becomes much quicker. Also, some guys progress through the minors faster than others. Gavin Lux, for example was drafted in 2016...spent short amounts of time at each level and started getting called up to the Dodgers in 2019.

i understand there is no set path... that is not what i am talking about...

i do think we only need 2 minor league levels... any more is just allowing to hide players...


i do think increasing the importance of the draft would help a lot... it would also make it more important to scout better...

 

[trojanfan12]

Huge difference in spending $100M and $350M. A floor helps a bit, teams can’t spend nothing but they will still do there best to spend the absolute minimum. You put in some kind of ceiling, luxury and hard cap. It will force the HUGE spenders to limit their spending bc of hard tax considerations but it will entice the “poverty” teams to spend more bc they have some sort of chance to compete

The "poverty teams" already can compete. They choose not to. All of these owners are billionaires.

The Padres were about as "small market" or "poverty" as it gets...then they decided to try to compete with the Dodgers...did they suddenly come into a bunch of money? Or did they decide to start spending?

As I said earlier, I heard yesterday that the Cubs made $500 million in profits but had a payroll of only $165 million.