Watching the Warriors...

[CameronFrye]

...is like banging my head against a wall. This franchise is EASILY the single most maddening in all of sports.

I am amazed that Golden State year after year will be JUST good enough to miss the playoffs and just bad enough to realize that they will never improve. They have now won 3 games in a row, beating the Suns, the Rockets and the Nuggets. If they hadn't collapsed against the OKC Thunder and the Kings (in OT) last week, they would be working on a 6-game win streak.

The single most frustrating thing is that they are still so incredibly inadequate on defense that it's laughable. The Warriors are 4th overall in scoring in the NBA and are 3rd overall in assists per game. But they are 29th in rebound differential at -4.4 per game (the number of rebounds they get minus the number of rebounds their opponents get) and tied for 28th overall in points allowed per game at 100.5. In both cases, the only team worse than the Warriors is the Charlotte Bobcats.

Anyone who has watched this team for even one game can see that Mark Jackson is fighting a losing battle. He's trying to teach defense to a bunch of players who cannot get the idea that there are two sides to a basketball court.

Cohan was a piss-poor owner because he was more concerned about making a profit than he was about fielding a winning team. The new owners are just as bad, but for a different reason. They are too proud to admit mistakes. We all know that _avi_ Lee is a bust as a player on the defensive end and he hurts the team with his lack of defense a lot more than he helps them with his scoring. He is a net negative player. But because they spent so much money on him, they refuse to admit that he is holding the team back.

Until we as fans are shown that winning is of the utmost importance to the front office, things will always be as they were. The sad truth is that Jerry West is a wasted resource in the Warriors front office. This team is going nowhere and is doing it fast.

 

[Heathbar012]

...is like banging my head against a wall. This franchise is EASILY the single most maddening in all of sports.

I am amazed that Golden State year after year will be JUST good enough to miss the playoffs and just bad enough to realize that they will never improve. They have now won 3 games in a row, beating the Suns, the Rockets and the Nuggets. If they hadn't collapsed against the OKC Thunder and the Kings (in OT) last week, they would be working on a 6-game win streak.

The single most frustrating thing is that they are still so incredibly inadequate on defense that it's laughable. The Warriors are 4th overall in scoring in the NBA and are 3rd overall in assists per game. But they are 29th in rebound differential at -4.4 per game (the number of rebounds they get minus the number of rebounds their opponents get) and tied for 28th overall in points allowed per game at 100.5. In both cases, the only team worse than the Warriors is the Charlotte Bobcats.

Anyone who has watched this team for even one game can see that Mark Jackson is fighting a losing battle. He's trying to teach defense to a bunch of players who cannot get the idea that there are two sides to a basketball court.

Cohan was a piss-poor owner because he was more concerned about making a profit than he was about fielding a winning team. The new owners are just as bad, but for a different reason. They are too proud to admit mistakes. We all know that _avi_ Lee is a bust as a player on the defensive end and he hurts the team with his lack of defense a lot more than he helps them with his scoring. He is a net negative player. But because they spent so much money on him, they refuse to admit that he is holding the team back.

Until we as fans are shown that winning is of the utmost importance to the front office, things will always be as they were. The sad truth is that Jerry West is a wasted resource in the Warriors front office. This team is going nowhere and is doing it fast.

The most "optimistic" projection that I could come up with for the remaining games has the Warriors finishing 34-32. At the beginning of the year, I thought .500 ball in a shortened season would get a team into the playoffs. I guess I didn't realize how truly awful the bottom of the Eastern Conference is, so they simply give games away to the middle of the West. Also, that is assuming complete health the rest of the way (not likely) and the best-case scenarios in most games. Still, they won't make the playoffs. I don't get it. It's like watching an inevitable car crash when the driver knows exactly how it could be avoided, but continues anyway. No playoffs and no first round pick. Why?

EDIT: Plus, now they make a Western Conference foe stronger. Couldn't Mullin have put in a caveat that New Jersey couldn't trade that pick to a team in the West? Ugh. No sense worrying about the past. At least, after this year, they can get turn to the future... except when Utah's rookie is torching them.

 

[CitySushi]

...is like banging my head against a wall. This franchise is EASILY the single most maddening in all of sports.

I am amazed that Golden State year after year will be JUST good enough to miss the playoffs and just bad enough to realize that they will never improve. They have now won 3 games in a row, beating the Suns, the Rockets and the Nuggets. If they hadn't collapsed against the OKC Thunder and the Kings (in OT) last week, they would be working on a 6-game win streak.

The single most frustrating thing is that they are still so incredibly inadequate on defense that it's laughable. The Warriors are 4th overall in scoring in the NBA and are 3rd overall in assists per game. But they are 29th in rebound differential at -4.4 per game (the number of rebounds they get minus the number of rebounds their opponents get) and tied for 28th overall in points allowed per game at 100.5. In both cases, the only team worse than the Warriors is the Charlotte Bobcats.

Anyone who has watched this team for even one game can see that Mark Jackson is fighting a losing battle. He's trying to teach defense to a bunch of players who cannot get the idea that there are two sides to a basketball court.

Cohan was a piss-poor owner because he was more concerned about making a profit than he was about fielding a winning team. The new owners are just as bad, but for a different reason. They are too proud to admit mistakes. We all know that _avi_ Lee is a bust as a player on the defensive end and he hurts the team with his lack of defense a lot more than he helps them with his scoring. He is a net negative player. But because they spent so much money on him, they refuse to admit that he is holding the team back.

Until we as fans are shown that winning is of the utmost importance to the front office, things will always be as they were. The sad truth is that Jerry West is a wasted resource in the Warriors front office. This team is going nowhere and is doing it fast.

To be honest, I have a totally opposite view on the situation. Riding a thin line here between being an optimist and a homer, but I believe the Warriors are in a better position from a management perspective than they have been in anytime in the recent future. Here is why:

1) Management has at least a vision of the makeup for a successful team. They just don't have the right pieces. They've tried to go after CP3, but without an extension, it was pointless throw their full weight to go after him. We'd still be the same team, perimeter oriented with no bigs to support. They've shown they want Howard, and I'm convinced they would trade the entire roster to get him. That doesn't mean we will, but it shows that they be objective about who they have to improve the roster.

2) David Lee would be an absolute great compliment to a competent center. That being said, his contract is going to hinder us for years. And regardless of what anyone else says, Lacob knows this now. Do you honestly expect him to go out and say, "Yeah, I made a mistake on him and we're stuck with him for 4 more years." That would ruin any relationship Lee has with the team. It would ruin any trade value he had. It would also not be a great selling point for future free agents to sign. There's no upside to ever admitting he was a mistake until they get rid of him. Period.

3) I was never a fan of the Jackson hiring, but he's got them at least trying on the defensive end. Simply put we just don't have the personnel to run the type of team he would like.

4) Not using the Amnesty on Biedrins was a colossal mistake. No use in even trying to argue this.

There have been mistakes by the new management, but there is time to remedy the situation. One off season where there was to be no contact from management and players, is hardly a time to judge the ability of Lacob and Co. However, if he screws up on this coming off season, all optimism I had of them will go out the window.

 

[CameronFrye]

To be honest, I have a totally opposite view on the situation. Riding a thin line here between being an optimist and a homer, but I believe the Warriors are in a better position from a management perspective than they have been in anytime in the recent future. Here is why:

1) Management has at least a vision of the makeup for a successful team. They just don't have the right pieces. They've tried to go after CP3, but without an extension, it was pointless throw their full weight to go after him. We'd still be the same team, perimeter oriented with no bigs to support. They've shown they want Howard, and I'm convinced they would trade the entire roster to get him. That doesn't mean we will, but it shows that they be objective about who they have to improve the roster.

The problem that I see with the Warriors is that it's not one big move away from being an elite team. This roster needs an almost total overhaul. Traidng away 1/2 of the roster for Chris Paul or Dwight Howard SOUNDS exciting, but gutting the roster to get him is a bad idea. The Warriors have to sink to the bottom before they can rise again. They have to dump Lee and Beans and send away Monta and Curry if that's what it takes to get rid of the dead weight. They need to build through the draft and then add a superstar who can put them over the top. They have too many bloated contracts to believe that a trade for a superstar will solve their problems.

2) David Lee would be an absolute great compliment to a competent center. That being said, his contract is going to hinder us for years. And regardless of what anyone else says, Lacob knows this now. Do you honestly expect him to go out and say, "Yeah, I made a mistake on him and we're stuck with him for 4 more years." That would ruin any relationship Lee has with the team. It would ruin any trade value he had. It would also not be a great selling point for future free agents to sign. There's no upside to ever admitting he was a mistake until they get rid of him. Period.

Your first two sentences are contradictory. He would be an absolute great complement but his contract will hinder that from ever happening, so he cannot be that complement. He HAS TO be the star with a contract as big as his. And the Warriors cannot win if he is the star. Therefore, he has to go.

3) I was never a fan of the Jackson hiring, but he's got them at least trying on the defensive end. Simply put we just don't have the personnel to run the type of team he would like.

I am a fan of the Jackson hiring. I am just disappointed that his hiring did not coincide with a roster remake that would put an emphasis on his obvious ideals. With me, it all starts with the complete lack of defensive presence that _avi_ shows. His matador style of defense sets up the entire team for failure.

4) Not using the Amnesty on Biedrins was a colossal mistake. No use in even trying to argue this.

Agreed. Especially since the Warriors chose to waste the amnesty on Bell just to land DeAndre Jordan, who is, at best, a slightly more athletic version of the 2008 Andris Biedrins. Golden State should have used the amnesty on Biedrins to land his doppelganger.

There have been mistakes by the new management, but there is time to remedy the situation. One off season where there was to be no contact from management and players, is hardly a time to judge the ability of Lacob and Co. However, if he screws up on this coming off season, all optimism I had of them will go out the window.

I guess I see things differently. I see a front office going about the rebuild in what I perceive to be the exact wrong way. I hope they prove to know what they are doing, but 35 years of watching the NBA tells me that what I see just doesn't pass the test of doing the right thing.

 

[CitySushi]

I'm a very firm believer in that teams should be built around superstars and not the other way around. If gutting the team is what it takes to get a superstar, you have to pull the trigger. Players like this don't come around very often and when they are made available, you should pursue to the fullest. You say the Warriors need to gut the team and at worst, a trade like this would allow them to do it. At best, you can build around a superstar. Gutting the team is what is needed. What form it comes in should provide the best opportunity for the team to improve. Whether or not that is through the draft or acquiring players that better the roster, I'm in agreement, it has to happen.

I didn't think my statement with Lee was contradictory. I do believe he would be a great complEment(won't ever misspell this one again) to a solid big who can protect the paint. Having his contract with a big like Jordan (who makes a little more than Biedrins), would allow him to be more than sufficient in his role. However without that big being there, his contract becomes an albatross and needs to be moved.

Again, I think this may just be a contrast in our views of players but I believe DeAndre was worth every penny. From a pure statistical impact, he doesn't pad stats, but he impacts the game in such a big way when he's on the court. Blake Griffin isn't any better of a defender than David Lee, but he's able to do his thing with help from the weak side. Jordan is an elite defensive player. If you're going to throw 11M a year at a pure scorer, why can you not do the same to an great defensive player.

 

[tzill]

I agree with much of what has been posted. I am also of the opinion that this management group has the balls to do something big if the opportunity is there. I still wouldn't be shocked if we were to send Avi, Monta, and Epke to the Magic for Howard, Big Baby and first round pick. I also wouldn't be shocked to see us send Monta and Beans to someone for an expiring and a first round pick.

Bottom line: they KNOW this roster has to be blown up, and I don't think they're afraid to do it. But, there has to be an opportunity to do so.

As for the rest of the season: the W's have 17 more home games and 24 more away from Oracle. They are a .500 home team and a .333 road team. That pencils out to a final record of 28-38, which would land them at #9 in the draft order if things stay as they are today. However, that assumes that the 8 sub .400 teams will remain sub .400.

I'm not sure, but I could see us ending up with the #7 pick if two teams (Cleveland, Sacto?) pick up the pace a bit.

 

[CameronFrye]

I agree with much of what has been posted. I am also of the opinion that this management group has the balls to do something big if the opportunity is there. I still wouldn't be shocked if we were to send Avi, Monta, and Epke to the Magic for Howard, Big Baby and first round pick. I also wouldn't be shocked to see us send Monta and Beans to someone for an expiring and a first round pick.

Bottom line: they KNOW this roster has to be blown up, and I don't think they're afraid to do it. But, there has to be an opportunity to do so.

As for the rest of the season: the W's have 17 more home games and 24 more away from Oracle. They are a .500 home team and a .333 road team. That pencils out to a final record of 28-38, which would land them at #9 in the draft order if things stay as they are today. However, that assumes that the 8 sub .400 teams will remain sub .400.

I'm not sure, but I could see us ending up with the #7 pick if two teams (Cleveland, Sacto?) pick up the pace a bit.

I think that if the Warriors can trade for a superstar and guarantee that _avi_ Lee is part of the trade, I am happy with it. Even if the Warriors were to trade for Dwight Howard who does not want to be here, it would be a net win for the team. Just as long as _avi_ goes.

If Howard agreed to an extension, I would add multiple players and take back Turkoglu. But if there's no extension for Dwight, there's no taking Turk.